cutting out, and now totally dead
Discussion
Not having much luch with my electrics, I think, and would appreciate any ideas.
Last Friday, my Griff 500 started giving me trouble: it felt like the engine was cutting out, just for a fraction of a second, every now and then. Enough to give the car a lurch, especially if I was in a lower gear, but nowhere near actually stalling. This would happen anywhere between 1,000 and 3,000rpm, but not higher. Struggled out of town, and onto the motorway, where it was completely fine all the way back home to Cambridge, where it started again the instant I got back into town traffic. Looking at the rev counter, it's as though it suddenly "flicks" a few hundred rpm, often *upwards* when it happens.
Took it into Offords on Monday, and of course it was fine on the 15 mile journey there; just picked it up now, but they were unable to find anything wrong, or reproduce the problem, so nothing done. Of course, it played up on the way home. It seemed to get much worse when the fans came on through town, lurching once as the fans kicked in - and the lights dimmed - and then semi-regularly whilst they were on.
Got back home, and tried to experiment: turned on all main beam, and hit the fan override to force them on. Quite hard to reproduce though, when in the garage. After only 3 or 4 minutes of this, the car just died. And now it's totally dead: I can't start it, lock it, set the alarm, raise the windows, turn on the lights, or anything. I've put the battery conditioner on, but it's as though there's no battery attached; no indication at all (other than power on)
Anyone have any ideas at all? I'm going to leave it on the conditioner for a few hours, and go out and check again. I can put a multi-meter on the terminal posts under the bonnet, if that will tell me anything...?
any help greatly appreciated...
cheers,
Calum.
Last Friday, my Griff 500 started giving me trouble: it felt like the engine was cutting out, just for a fraction of a second, every now and then. Enough to give the car a lurch, especially if I was in a lower gear, but nowhere near actually stalling. This would happen anywhere between 1,000 and 3,000rpm, but not higher. Struggled out of town, and onto the motorway, where it was completely fine all the way back home to Cambridge, where it started again the instant I got back into town traffic. Looking at the rev counter, it's as though it suddenly "flicks" a few hundred rpm, often *upwards* when it happens.
Took it into Offords on Monday, and of course it was fine on the 15 mile journey there; just picked it up now, but they were unable to find anything wrong, or reproduce the problem, so nothing done. Of course, it played up on the way home. It seemed to get much worse when the fans came on through town, lurching once as the fans kicked in - and the lights dimmed - and then semi-regularly whilst they were on.
Got back home, and tried to experiment: turned on all main beam, and hit the fan override to force them on. Quite hard to reproduce though, when in the garage. After only 3 or 4 minutes of this, the car just died. And now it's totally dead: I can't start it, lock it, set the alarm, raise the windows, turn on the lights, or anything. I've put the battery conditioner on, but it's as though there's no battery attached; no indication at all (other than power on)
Anyone have any ideas at all? I'm going to leave it on the conditioner for a few hours, and go out and check again. I can put a multi-meter on the terminal posts under the bonnet, if that will tell me anything...?
any help greatly appreciated...
cheers,
Calum.
I would check the 100amp fuse that "hangs" around the ecu and battery area, look for a cable coming from the battery(not the really big red one) and follow until you find a rectangular box, it has a cover that will pop off. If not the earth on the chassis, i think they are where the steering rack appears in the wheel arch. Or battery connections. I suppose if the alternator fuse had gone you would have had slowing fans and dim lights for a while, longer than a couple of minutes. Or, someone else!
have you checked the Alternator and starter motor connections?
have you checked the Battery Connections for the Car wires, I am assuming the terminal posts you refer to are the ones that the Battery Conditioner plugs into, if they are connected in a different way to the other cables, then these may have come loose.
have you checked the Battery Connections for the Car wires, I am assuming the terminal posts you refer to are the ones that the Battery Conditioner plugs into, if they are connected in a different way to the other cables, then these may have come loose.
thanks. Haven't checked the alternator or starter motor yet; the light is quite poor in the garage, so may wait until tomorrow.
The battery conditioner plugs into the cigarette lighter socket; the terminals under the bonnet are the Leven ones I had fitted, to make charging/jump starting easier should it ever be necessary.
The battery conditioner plugs into the cigarette lighter socket; the terminals under the bonnet are the Leven ones I had fitted, to make charging/jump starting easier should it ever be necessary.
simpo two said:
So that might tbe the bit that's worked loose then?
thanks, but sorry, what might be the bit?
The only place I see any voltage is across the terminal posts. I don't see any in the cigarette lighter socket, nor do *any* of the electrics work whatsoever.
If the terimals had worked loose it would be the other way around, surely?
Sounds like a simple electrical failure, I guess you'll need to trace it through and see where the power stops (if you see what I mean!). If I were you I'd start with the main power feed into the ignition switch, and the switched feed back from it. My money would be a breakdown of the plug between the switch and the rest of the loom. If that is all OK, see whether the switched feed is reaching as far as the fuse box. If not, you might be looking at an immobiliser fault. Otherwise, you'll just have to keep tracking it on until you find the fault.
Wiring diagrams do - er - 'evolve' with time so there's no guarantee that your car will be wired exactly like the bible says, though I guess it's a good place to start. If logic doesn't work (followed by guesswork, swearing and finally violence), can you take it back to the people who fitted the Leven terminals?
I can't even get it out of the garage.
My problem with the wiring diagram is that you can't trace power through the fuse blocks, since you don't know - sitting inside the house - which pins are connected to which, and through which fuses.
I would have thought that if things like the lights don't work - which work with the ignition off - testing for power at the ignition switch isn't helping.
And how does power get *to* the ignition switch. Forgetting about my car, just following the diagram, I can see that maybe power would arrive at the switch on pin 30 via a red wire. Tracing this back leads me to pin 30ac on Block M. Not only have I no idea what this is, I also can't tell how power gets to it. The battery is also connected to - or near - block M, but I don't know how block M is wired...
can't do anything tonight, since I can barely get into the car in the garage, let alone crawl about in the footwell, and doing it outside in the dark by torchlight doesn't sound fun.
all beyond me; looks like the only way it's going anywhere is on a trailer
time to call out RAC?
My problem with the wiring diagram is that you can't trace power through the fuse blocks, since you don't know - sitting inside the house - which pins are connected to which, and through which fuses.
I would have thought that if things like the lights don't work - which work with the ignition off - testing for power at the ignition switch isn't helping.
And how does power get *to* the ignition switch. Forgetting about my car, just following the diagram, I can see that maybe power would arrive at the switch on pin 30 via a red wire. Tracing this back leads me to pin 30ac on Block M. Not only have I no idea what this is, I also can't tell how power gets to it. The battery is also connected to - or near - block M, but I don't know how block M is wired...
can't do anything tonight, since I can barely get into the car in the garage, let alone crawl about in the footwell, and doing it outside in the dark by torchlight doesn't sound fun.
all beyond me; looks like the only way it's going anywhere is on a trailer
time to call out RAC?
Depends what you've got to hand. You will need a Volt meter or test light, earth one side and go round the car with the other looking for Volts. As its a TVR they're probably wild ones so it might be a bit tricky to coax them out but with persistence you will find them.
The first thing to find is a good earth. Outer part of the cigar lighter socket, metal of the steering column, remote charging plug if you have one, any good contact on to the engine. Assuming the cigar lighter socket is permanently live (it isn't on the V8S but I think it will be on the Griffith/Chimaera) this also gives you a handy 12V supply to test your test light, assuming you can lay hands on a suitable plug.
See how you get on, but if you get desperate there's a good chance you will be able to hot-wire the car to get it running well enough to take you to a garage (we know it's all basically working once you get power to the ignition switched circuit), or you can call out any local mobile mechanic who should be perfectly capable of tackling simple electrical problems like this.
The first thing to find is a good earth. Outer part of the cigar lighter socket, metal of the steering column, remote charging plug if you have one, any good contact on to the engine. Assuming the cigar lighter socket is permanently live (it isn't on the V8S but I think it will be on the Griffith/Chimaera) this also gives you a handy 12V supply to test your test light, assuming you can lay hands on a suitable plug.
See how you get on, but if you get desperate there's a good chance you will be able to hot-wire the car to get it running well enough to take you to a garage (we know it's all basically working once you get power to the ignition switched circuit), or you can call out any local mobile mechanic who should be perfectly capable of tackling simple electrical problems like this.
Sorry, I just noticed you said nothing at all was workig, no lights or anything. This isn't just a problem with the ignition switched supply then.
On mine, the whole car seems to be powered from a big fat cable connected to the main power terminal on the starter motor, that feeds forward under the engine, up the front, back along the top of the engine (close to the injectors) and through the bulkhead into the cockpit. This feeds everything. The wire is protected by a braided sleeve. If the wire had come loose or been damaged somewhere, this would take out everything. Since the problem was originally intermittant, it might be worth GENTLY wiggling this wire to see whether it suddenly sparks into life. But be careful, if it *isn't* this wire then by wrenching it around you could end up causing another problem.
On mine, the whole car seems to be powered from a big fat cable connected to the main power terminal on the starter motor, that feeds forward under the engine, up the front, back along the top of the engine (close to the injectors) and through the bulkhead into the cockpit. This feeds everything. The wire is protected by a braided sleeve. If the wire had come loose or been damaged somewhere, this would take out everything. Since the problem was originally intermittant, it might be worth GENTLY wiggling this wire to see whether it suddenly sparks into life. But be careful, if it *isn't* this wire then by wrenching it around you could end up causing another problem.
Agree with Peter, I assume they are all similar but even the feed to the fuse panel seems to come from the + junction of the starter motor, battery/alternator etc. Might be a fair place to start assuming you've got 12V on the battery.
Talking of which did the garage do a load test on the battery
as dieing cells within it will short the main 12v supply to everything giving similar symptoms to what you are describing.
harry
Talking of which did the garage do a load test on the battery
as dieing cells within it will short the main 12v supply to everything giving similar symptoms to what you are describing. harry
thanks guys... the battery could well be in a poor state; I don't know whether it was tested.
Some slight results: I see 13V at the main connector of the alternator; that's the one at the top, not sure if this is "input" or "output" diode-wise?. I couldn't see the other main one, if there is one. Where is it? Can barely get to anything back there, and not helped by it being dark.
I did see the brown/yellow wire that I think is the warning light feed, and there's also a thin, white wire that connects into the back of the alternator. What on earth is this?
This might sound silly, but should I be alarmed to see a large-ish U-shaped connector just hanging loose behind the alternator? Two wires running to it, can't see where they go (into the loom). It's clearly meant to plug into something
I can't get anywhere near the starter motor - no jacks here - so can't see if there's a 100A fuse, let alone test it.
Some slight results: I see 13V at the main connector of the alternator; that's the one at the top, not sure if this is "input" or "output" diode-wise?. I couldn't see the other main one, if there is one. Where is it? Can barely get to anything back there, and not helped by it being dark.
I did see the brown/yellow wire that I think is the warning light feed, and there's also a thin, white wire that connects into the back of the alternator. What on earth is this?
This might sound silly, but should I be alarmed to see a large-ish U-shaped connector just hanging loose behind the alternator? Two wires running to it, can't see where they go (into the loom). It's clearly meant to plug into something
I can't get anywhere near the starter motor - no jacks here - so can't see if there's a 100A fuse, let alone test it.
Hopefully sorted by now, but, have you checked the 100amp fuse from the battery? Having 13v at the alternator means the battery connections are fine and the starter motor connections are fine. That 100a gives power to the whole of the fuse box and all the stuff thereafter. You can rule out immobiliser as it doesnt effect lights, windows etc. There is still the earth side of things, it may be fine to the engine(alternator) but not to the chassis or wiring loom.
I tried to describe the fuse box & block connections see http://www1.dspen.com/TVR/fusebox/mo264.html
Its a bit arduous but does describe (in code) the interconnection of all pins in the fusebox.
Dave
Its a bit arduous but does describe (in code) the interconnection of all pins in the fusebox.
Dave
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