Chimaera or Griff!!? Dealer or private!!? Help!
Discussion
Chimp or Griff, dealer or private, get a loan and buy newer, or stick to budget and get older?
I know there is potentially more than 1 subject here for debate, but these and many other questions I have come up against, just looking for my tiv to be.
This website is superb and is full of invaluable advice/tips, but after reading many pages of it, it has made my task even harder. It has opened my eyes alot more to what is invloved in making the right decisions.
So here is my predicament. My budget is roughly 13k, which won't (apparently) get me a decent Griff/Chimp. So I am looking at a loan for another 5k. This should (apparently) get me a decent one (4/4.3 ltr). And why did I choose the Griff/Chimp route, rather than S3/4? That is another story......
One question that would be helpfull to have answered, if indeed there is an answer, is this; How much do you need to be earning p.a ROUGHLY,to be able to afford to run a Griff/Chimp 500?( As a guide)
I just don't want to buy the car I THINK is the right one, only to find out I can't afford to keep up ownership after 1 year.
I WILL get a tivver for the summer, but can't afford it to be an expensive mistake. So I need a bit of guidance. Any helpfull comments are greatly appreciated.
Cheers
I know there is potentially more than 1 subject here for debate, but these and many other questions I have come up against, just looking for my tiv to be.
This website is superb and is full of invaluable advice/tips, but after reading many pages of it, it has made my task even harder. It has opened my eyes alot more to what is invloved in making the right decisions.
So here is my predicament. My budget is roughly 13k, which won't (apparently) get me a decent Griff/Chimp. So I am looking at a loan for another 5k. This should (apparently) get me a decent one (4/4.3 ltr). And why did I choose the Griff/Chimp route, rather than S3/4? That is another story......
One question that would be helpfull to have answered, if indeed there is an answer, is this; How much do you need to be earning p.a ROUGHLY,to be able to afford to run a Griff/Chimp 500?( As a guide)
I just don't want to buy the car I THINK is the right one, only to find out I can't afford to keep up ownership after 1 year.
I WILL get a tivver for the summer, but can't afford it to be an expensive mistake. So I need a bit of guidance. Any helpfull comments are greatly appreciated.
Cheers
A complex series of questions....
£13k might get you an early chimaera, bought privately.
I bought mine (a 4l chimaera) from a dealer because of the reputation of TVRs for unreliability. Since then she has run really well, and the warranty & support were unnecessary. Don't be afraid of buying privately as long as you get a history and check both the car and the history carefully. Would not recommend getting a highly modified one.
As regards choice of car, the Chimaera is often preferred as it is not quite as extreme at the Griff, having a slightly softer suspension and loads more room in an enormous boot. there are also many more around. Can't compare them with earlier models as I have not driven them.
Servicing is every 6000 miles and will cost £400-£500. Aim for 20mpg depending on how you drive it.
If you are planning to do big mileages, would suggest buying a relatively new one.
Buy one before they get banned or priced out of reach by our motoring-friendly government.
Steve Heath has written a good book about Griffs and Chimaera with a section on buying. Well worth the £30. Obtainable from the tvrcc at www.tvrcc.com.
don't be put off by the extent of discussions on this forum. Most TVR owners love their cars and spend far too much time driving them, dreaming about them and talking about them.
Good luck
Richard
£13k might get you an early chimaera, bought privately.
I bought mine (a 4l chimaera) from a dealer because of the reputation of TVRs for unreliability. Since then she has run really well, and the warranty & support were unnecessary. Don't be afraid of buying privately as long as you get a history and check both the car and the history carefully. Would not recommend getting a highly modified one.
As regards choice of car, the Chimaera is often preferred as it is not quite as extreme at the Griff, having a slightly softer suspension and loads more room in an enormous boot. there are also many more around. Can't compare them with earlier models as I have not driven them.
Servicing is every 6000 miles and will cost £400-£500. Aim for 20mpg depending on how you drive it.
If you are planning to do big mileages, would suggest buying a relatively new one.
Buy one before they get banned or priced out of reach by our motoring-friendly government.
Steve Heath has written a good book about Griffs and Chimaera with a section on buying. Well worth the £30. Obtainable from the tvrcc at www.tvrcc.com.
don't be put off by the extent of discussions on this forum. Most TVR owners love their cars and spend far too much time driving them, dreaming about them and talking about them.
Good luck
Richard
Firstly go to a dealer and actually drive all the makes you THINK you want and discover which you prefer the most.Griffith and Chimaera's may have the same engine(assuming a 4litre here) but are totally different to drive. Decide what you want the TVR for.If you are commuting every day then you may well find a Chimaera easier to live with(IMO).However, I had a Griff pre cat and I loved every minute of it.You can buy these cars for sensible money (albeit privately) or given the timing of the year you can probably get a deal at a dealers.I paid £14k for mine in 1998 and had 3yrs of hassle free fun (few niggles but it never broke down once!!)Getting a good TVR is still a game of chance IMO so go for FSH and something with some miles on it.On borrowing more money - that is down to you but it may not be necessary.You CAN find good examples out there if you know what you are looking for.Make sure you HPI etc...if you e mail me off line I know of a couple of good examples in your price range that are out there....don't think that by spending more money you will automatically remove the chance of problematic cars however.Take the first step and decide WHICH one you want first (as Chimaera's are generally cheaper due to being more numerous in manufacture)....then start lloking in depth for you desired model, be it a 4 or 4.3(these will be more expoensive due to rarity and collectability)...If in doubt buying privately get the car you want checked over by Mark at Tower Valley Race services in N London..or any TVR dealer....if a seller is not willing to do this then don't buy the car....
On running costs - its a Rover V8...so it is relatively cheap on engine parts etc...especially if you go to a specialist.Depreciation is there but on the pre cat Griff it is minimal due to 'collectability'
I traded mine in and including servicing costs and upgrades I had done I only lost 4k in 3 years (and let me tell you dealers don't pay much for trade ins as well we know !!)I would say insurance depending on age and locaton is cicrca £1k servicing costs £400 and keep a pot of about £500 aside for niggles/problems.safely you need to be able to spend upto £500 without blinking...as I said specialists will help you keep the cost down but these are not cars to scrimp and save on.Keeping them pristine is half the fun (or am I just sad!!!???)
Things to look out for that can be expensive are manifolds/exhausts..look for cracks in manifolds before buying and don't fall for the 'its a pre cat it sounds like that line ..from one who has !!)..diff's and gearboxes...and interior condition..the list is long on what to check but just take it to someone to have it checked out before buying one....good hunting..
K1 FJB
Cerbie 4.5
On running costs - its a Rover V8...so it is relatively cheap on engine parts etc...especially if you go to a specialist.Depreciation is there but on the pre cat Griff it is minimal due to 'collectability'
I traded mine in and including servicing costs and upgrades I had done I only lost 4k in 3 years (and let me tell you dealers don't pay much for trade ins as well we know !!)I would say insurance depending on age and locaton is cicrca £1k servicing costs £400 and keep a pot of about £500 aside for niggles/problems.safely you need to be able to spend upto £500 without blinking...as I said specialists will help you keep the cost down but these are not cars to scrimp and save on.Keeping them pristine is half the fun (or am I just sad!!!???)
Things to look out for that can be expensive are manifolds/exhausts..look for cracks in manifolds before buying and don't fall for the 'its a pre cat it sounds like that line ..from one who has !!)..diff's and gearboxes...and interior condition..the list is long on what to check but just take it to someone to have it checked out before buying one....good hunting..
K1 FJB
Cerbie 4.5
With regards to the Dealer vs Private question, I too went through the same question when purchasing my Cerbera.
I started off by only considering dealers, test drove the cars at a number of dealers and quizzed them all about what they do prior to selling their cars. I also extensively researched the Cerbera before talking to them and asked them some pertinent questions (to which I already had answers). I found that some responded with better answers than others but there were contradictions between their responses and I generally was not left with a whole lot of confidence that I would be getting a safe deal or value for money.
I didn't fancy the idea of buying privately myself so went for a third option in the end which was to get Rob Ingeleby (www.findasportscar.co.uk) to do the hard work. You tell him what you're looking for and for a flat fee he will search out the cars for you, talk to the owners, inspect the cars and even haggle on the price using his TVR knowledge. The fee is reasonable considering the work he does and (touch wood) seems to have worked for me. I've only had the car about a month but no significant problems to date. The warranty you can buy yourself - no need to buy from a dealer to get this.
All in all, I think it's worth considering using Rob as a 3rd option.
I started off by only considering dealers, test drove the cars at a number of dealers and quizzed them all about what they do prior to selling their cars. I also extensively researched the Cerbera before talking to them and asked them some pertinent questions (to which I already had answers). I found that some responded with better answers than others but there were contradictions between their responses and I generally was not left with a whole lot of confidence that I would be getting a safe deal or value for money.
I didn't fancy the idea of buying privately myself so went for a third option in the end which was to get Rob Ingeleby (www.findasportscar.co.uk) to do the hard work. You tell him what you're looking for and for a flat fee he will search out the cars for you, talk to the owners, inspect the cars and even haggle on the price using his TVR knowledge. The fee is reasonable considering the work he does and (touch wood) seems to have worked for me. I've only had the car about a month but no significant problems to date. The warranty you can buy yourself - no need to buy from a dealer to get this.
All in all, I think it's worth considering using Rob as a 3rd option.
I would say that a 13K tvr could be a poor investment. I would recommend buying private, getting it inspected but spending nearer £20K. A 4.0 ltr Chimp is very common. a Griff is fab but might be too much for some for a first TVR. I would recommend a 4.5 ltr chimp as a decent compromise and easy to resale (relatively). Should get a 98 4.5 chimp with good spec for about 18 -20 K?
Firstly; Richard, Fraser, Leszekg and Gaz muchos gassyarse for the rapid replies 
Richard, when you say "big mileages", how much is that? My Tiv will be a weekend car, and to drive to as many club do's as poss. So how many miles that will be, I don't know. But want to drive to France,etc with a convoy of other tivvers this summer at least.
Fraser, good idea about testing models out at dealers.What are the two examples you mentioned? I have tried to mail you, but there is no facility to do it on your profile. I did actually drive my first Griff(4.3 pre-cat) and Chimaera(4.0) on the weekend.
The Griff had fantastic grunt, and sounded like there were two bulldogs on steroids having a big argument behind me, even on tickover!
One thing I am weary of though, is the way it skipped about whenever it went over bumps.Chassis twisted?? Do they all do that?
The Chimaera was in beautifull condition, but did not perform or sound like the Griff. It did have a sports exhaust on it which made it sound like an old ac cobra or something. Didn't like that. But, it was very enjoyable to drive. I actually felt quite relaxed after a few miles and could imagine driving it to France,etc.
Leszekg, I will be giving Rob a ring tonight to get some details and see what he is like.
Gaz, I think 20k is out of my estimated budget. I did have an old d reg 350i 4 years ago which I kept for a year, so a Griff I can tame. But thanks for the concern me ole china.
Has anyone been to the Dealer near Stanstead? Or know about its rep?
Thanks again chaps. Keep the info comin, its much appreciated.
Richard, when you say "big mileages", how much is that? My Tiv will be a weekend car, and to drive to as many club do's as poss. So how many miles that will be, I don't know. But want to drive to France,etc with a convoy of other tivvers this summer at least.
Fraser, good idea about testing models out at dealers.What are the two examples you mentioned? I have tried to mail you, but there is no facility to do it on your profile. I did actually drive my first Griff(4.3 pre-cat) and Chimaera(4.0) on the weekend.
The Griff had fantastic grunt, and sounded like there were two bulldogs on steroids having a big argument behind me, even on tickover!
One thing I am weary of though, is the way it skipped about whenever it went over bumps.Chassis twisted?? Do they all do that?
The Chimaera was in beautifull condition, but did not perform or sound like the Griff. It did have a sports exhaust on it which made it sound like an old ac cobra or something. Didn't like that. But, it was very enjoyable to drive. I actually felt quite relaxed after a few miles and could imagine driving it to France,etc.
Leszekg, I will be giving Rob a ring tonight to get some details and see what he is like.
Gaz, I think 20k is out of my estimated budget. I did have an old d reg 350i 4 years ago which I kept for a year, so a Griff I can tame. But thanks for the concern me ole china.
Has anyone been to the Dealer near Stanstead? Or know about its rep?
Thanks again chaps. Keep the info comin, its much appreciated.
Try an independant - there are quite a few around and you can get a good price from them for a slightly older 94 / 95 Chimaera. Should look to pay something like £12K - £14K for a reasonable one with plenty of fun left in it (which is exactly what I did). Would be worth keeping a little extra spare just in case (those little extras like tyres and battery chargers....).
Can remember who said earlier - but the best compromise model is the 4.5 and being newer is better built etc. But, you cant really go wrong with a 4.0 and there are plenty about so no problem finding one. I have heard some good things about findasportscar, and he does come pretty well recommended (not from me as I havent used him - should have done though!).
Dont forget that average mileage for a TVR is 5-6000 per year. Doing more than that will impact on resale value so be careful. They can do much more than that and are very capable of going on and on - but it is a case of selling them at the end....
CastleTVR - used them once so far and impressed with the service. They have all of the stuff they need and are not lacking on space. They are also a spin-off from The TVR Centre (Barnet) and have the experience. Look to be in a good shape for the future - but as I only spent £100 with them I cant qualify for a recommendation....
What else do you need to know?
Cheers,
Paul
Can remember who said earlier - but the best compromise model is the 4.5 and being newer is better built etc. But, you cant really go wrong with a 4.0 and there are plenty about so no problem finding one. I have heard some good things about findasportscar, and he does come pretty well recommended (not from me as I havent used him - should have done though!).
Dont forget that average mileage for a TVR is 5-6000 per year. Doing more than that will impact on resale value so be careful. They can do much more than that and are very capable of going on and on - but it is a case of selling them at the end....
CastleTVR - used them once so far and impressed with the service. They have all of the stuff they need and are not lacking on space. They are also a spin-off from The TVR Centre (Barnet) and have the experience. Look to be in a good shape for the future - but as I only spent £100 with them I cant qualify for a recommendation....
What else do you need to know?
Cheers,
Paul
Paul, do you have any names of recommended independants? I agree on the idea of spending a little less and keeping a kitty in reserve for emergencies. But others would not agree, and I understand why. At some point I am going to have come off the fence and decide which way to go. But I won't rush it.
What do you think about the Griff skipping out when negotiating bumps? It didn't feel right, almost like the chassis was bent or something. Not that I know what that would feel like
It felt very nervous to say the least though. I need to drive many more of these beasts.
I also agree that the 4.5 Chimp sounds like a good compromise because I have a feeling a 4.0 I will get used to too quickly, but insurance figures are going to be interesting. I'm 31, clean licence, garage....
Are pre 96 Chimps a liability? Not my words by the way.
Thanks for the info mate. Would be interested to hear your answers to above questions. And anyone else too
Cheers
What do you think about the Griff skipping out when negotiating bumps? It didn't feel right, almost like the chassis was bent or something. Not that I know what that would feel like
It felt very nervous to say the least though. I need to drive many more of these beasts.
I also agree that the 4.5 Chimp sounds like a good compromise because I have a feeling a 4.0 I will get used to too quickly, but insurance figures are going to be interesting. I'm 31, clean licence, garage....
Are pre 96 Chimps a liability? Not my words by the way.
Thanks for the info mate. Would be interested to hear your answers to above questions. And anyone else too
Cheers
quote:
One thing I am weary of though, is the way it skipped about whenever it went over bumps.Chassis twisted?? Do they all do that?
The early Griffs have different suspension and geometry than the later models and were much more prone to bump steer and tramlining. This can be a bit disconcerting to start with but is not (IMO) a big deal.
The pre cat cars are a lot more raucous (99.9db as opposed to 96db according to Castle Combe noise police). If you enjoy frightening people, setting off car alarms and driving the best looking car on the road get a Griff. If you want to be slightly more sensible then get a Chim ... Who needs sensible?
I bought mine 18 months ago for less than £14K and it's been pretty good. I have spent some money on it but I could have got away without most of it.
I would strongly recommend an inspection though, especially if you are prone to making rash decisions (like me).
Whatever you get, buy it now before the prices start to climb for the summer, go careful though, they are interesting in the wet.
Anybody mentioned Adrian Blyth yet?
Good cars (IMO) used him twice and cars inspected and sorted pre sale by David Batty - see multiple previous threads.
Has a good through put of cars.
Now has a showroom.... based in Hampshire.
But doesn't pay me commission on recommendation.....unfortunately
Good cars (IMO) used him twice and cars inspected and sorted pre sale by David Batty - see multiple previous threads.
Has a good through put of cars.
Now has a showroom.... based in Hampshire.
But doesn't pay me commission on recommendation.....unfortunately
Good indies :
www.adrianblyth.co.uk
www.davidgeraldtvr.com
www.fernhurst-tvr.co.uk
www.peninsulauto.co.uk
There are more, but I cant remember them for the moment. Call them and have a chat - what they dont have on the website they probably can get hold of.
Tramlining - yes, big wheels (comparitively) with not much weight doesnt help. Mine does it on major gooves in the road, but you kind of get used to it.
Pre 96 Chimaera - no problems. Not a liability either. Lots of indies and people that know what they are doing with them to make sure that they wont cost the earth.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Paul
www.adrianblyth.co.uk
www.davidgeraldtvr.com
www.fernhurst-tvr.co.uk
www.peninsulauto.co.uk
There are more, but I cant remember them for the moment. Call them and have a chat - what they dont have on the website they probably can get hold of.
Tramlining - yes, big wheels (comparitively) with not much weight doesnt help. Mine does it on major gooves in the road, but you kind of get used to it.
Pre 96 Chimaera - no problems. Not a liability either. Lots of indies and people that know what they are doing with them to make sure that they wont cost the earth.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Paul
Has anyone seen the Griff 4.3 at Fernhursts?
Its up for £16,500. Does that seem a bit steep to you?
Just looked at A.Blyths and there are no Griffiths for sale there at all. Just Chimps.
Peninsulauto is too far away, as is D.Gerald.
Will be paying castle TVR a visit soon though.
Thanks again
Its up for £16,500. Does that seem a bit steep to you?
Just looked at A.Blyths and there are no Griffiths for sale there at all. Just Chimps.
Peninsulauto is too far away, as is D.Gerald.
Will be paying castle TVR a visit soon though.
Thanks again
Tivhead
Mines a 4L 1994 and has been utterly reliable. Don't be afraid of buying older than 96.
a 4.5 would be great if you can stretch to it, but it may be better to get a lowish mileage 4L than a trashed 4.5/5.
By high mileage I mean >12k pa. After that you are doing two services a year and the resale value starts to dip alarmingly. the other considerations are fuel consumption and ear damage...
Having said that, I would not recommend buying one with say 2000 miles pa on it as if it hasn't been used, it may not be reliable. The more you use them, the more reliable they become.
R
Mines a 4L 1994 and has been utterly reliable. Don't be afraid of buying older than 96.
a 4.5 would be great if you can stretch to it, but it may be better to get a lowish mileage 4L than a trashed 4.5/5.
By high mileage I mean >12k pa. After that you are doing two services a year and the resale value starts to dip alarmingly. the other considerations are fuel consumption and ear damage...
Having said that, I would not recommend buying one with say 2000 miles pa on it as if it hasn't been used, it may not be reliable. The more you use them, the more reliable they become.
R
quote:
Peninsulauto is too far away, as is D.Gerald.
Will be paying castle TVR a visit soon though.
The right car is NEVER too far away ... I'd travel to the other side of the country if I thought it was the right car or me. After a lot of long phone conversations tho'
Think you'll be paying a lot more at Castle's although with the comforting reassurance of a warranty.
At the end of the day, you pays your money and you takes your choice
quote:
The right car is NEVER too far away ... I'd travel to the other side of the country if I thought it was the right car or me.
Couple of years ago went from Oxon to Sussex coast (via a Castle Combe TVR day) to see a 500. Chap said 'Oh, I thought it was full leather'. Moron.
Ed (full time ambla hater)
quote:
The right car is NEVER too far away ... I'd travel to the other side of the country if I thought it was the right car or me.
Have been from Essex to Bristol then upto Warwick then onto Oxford and back to essex in one days car hunting b4 now..
Have also travelled two hours up the road to view a car when I got there the guy said he`d sold it to someone else that morning..
!! quote:
Have been from Essex to Bristol then upto Warwick then onto Oxford and back to essex in one days car hunting b4 now..
Once (when I was young and naive) I went from Portsmouth to Leamington to view a Spitifre – got there, saw the car in the street, phoned the guy to tell him I was outside and what a load of junk it was and promptly drove back home again. Could have saved time, money etc by talking more on the phone.
Oh, the joys of email and the 'net! Can all be done from your fireside now.
Bo
TivHead - sorry profile is now open and updated.E mail me - website will be up and running soon
K1 FJB
www.cerbera.me.uk
K1 FJB
www.cerbera.me.uk
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