Griff vs Chim

[Garry Mettam]

I would be very interested to hear from people who have owned or have experience of both the Chim and Griff. I expect to buy one s/hand this year and am interested in other peoples opinions of the relative advantages and disadvantages of both cars and the merits of power assistance for steering. I have driven a 4L Chim and a Griff 500. The latter felt quicker (obviously) and the cornering was perhaps a little better (this may have been something to do with the steering - power assistance on Chim only). Any advice gratefully received. Garry

[ADB]

Without going into all the technicalities(?)main differences are that the chim is a slighlty less hardcore version of a Griff, basically. The suspension is a bit more forgiving (relatively speaking) the steering is a bit lower geared, the boot is bigger (obviously I suppose) making it slightly more 'everyday' useable in so far as luggage capability, especially with the roof off. As for PAS/non PAS , personal preference on that one I reckon, unless you let your wife drive it! Either way, you can't really go wrong, a chim may be cheaper at the moment as there are a lot for sale. Happy hunting ! AB- Griff 500

[GasBlaster]

There are lots more Chimps around than Griffs; dealer said that Chimps tended to be company cars (I wonder which companies...?) and Griffs tend to be kept as weekend blasters. GasBlaster prefers the Griff as it's a more uncompromising machine and one that has 'future classic' written all over it. Chimp probably easier to live with and less likely to spit you backwards into a hedge. GasBlaster Griff 500

[kate]

If it's your first and you have not alot of experience of this kind of car have a 4l chimp for a year and then trade up. They are more practical and slightly more spacious. I prefer the griff, but you are more likely to drive it into something. Chimaeras are not likely to lose much more value at the bottom end, 12K is around the lowest that they will go. Now they are both on the way out classic status is certain to arrive, higher values for rarer griffs, but not by much Good luck and enjoy either

[PETEBEST]

A point that might be worth noting is the better interior in the Griff, the Chimp has a beam running across the cockpit which gets in the way of a tall passengers knees, Im 6" and found it annoying ( my wife likes driving it too ), you also get a glove box in the Griff.

[Graham]

>>>>dealer said that Chimps tended to be company cars (I wonder which companies...?) <<<<< MINE <VBG> well untill 2002 anyway, then i think i'll have to sell it to myself and buy a van with the new company car tax ;-(

[paulie]

Graham As you provide TVRs as company cars Do you need any honest reliable employees?? Like...............ME

[Garry Mettam]

Thank you all very much for the replies to date. My intended purchase will be a second car - a VW Passat ferries the family around. It will be used as often as possible (why not?) but I am unlikely to use it in bad weather. My wife will probably never drive it - her choice. Kate - I suspect your advice is very sensible but I feel inclined to go for a 5 litre just because I am buying it for the thrill of having a beautiful machine that actually goes as fast as it looks. I know the 4 litre is extremely quick but the 5 litre is just awesome - the trouble is I’ve experienced it! I’m also intending to keep this car for some time and the thought of buying and selling within a short period of time does not really appeal. I have driven a Porsche 944 Turbo occasionally in the past and whilst initially it felt enormously quick, it didn’t take long to get used to it. I figure the Griff will remove the desire for something faster. (performance upgrades?!) Pete - I noticed that beam as soon as I got in the Chim. My knees don’t quite touch it but one of my business partners is 6’4" so I suspect his will (not that this is a major factor). I did wonder what it might do to my knees if I was a passenger in a head on crash. Being spat backwards into a hedge is not something I really want to experience. I recognise I am not a seasoned performance car driver and I try to drive accordingly - I am happier blasting along clear stretches than seeing how fast I can go round corners. Just how easy is it to spin off in a Griff? Do you have to try? I remember reading Clarkson say that on a track he just could not go round a corner (in a 5L Chim) without coming out backwards! Is this even vaguely accurate? This forum is superb for a potential buyer like me - where else can you get a range of unbiased opinions from people who know? Thanks again (and sorry for the essay!). Garry

[GreenV8S]

quote: Just how easy is it to spin off in a Griff? Do you have to try? I remember reading Clarkson say that on a track he just could not go round a corner (in a 5L Chim) without coming out backwards! Is this even vaguely accurate?

The handling is very good and with a normal sized engine you'd have to be a complete nutter to lose it. But with that much power on tap, you've got more power than grip a lot of the time. There are two favorite ways to lose the back end. The biggie is pottering along gently in third or fourth gear, accelerating gently and finding something that disturbs the grip of the tyres slightly. On a cold rainy road, it doesn't take much. As the wheel starts to spin up the engine comes on cam and the torque increases, and before you know it the back wheels have picked up 30 mph or so of wheel spin. Unless you're really on the ball, it is very hard to retrieve it from this situation. The second favorite is to lose the back end going into a corner. The rear dampers have very little low-speed damping and there is no anti-dive so the back of the car picks up a long way under braking. If you brake abruptly, the rear tyres are unloaded as the rear reaches the top of its travel. If you're braking near the limit of grip, this can be enough to lock the rear wheels. Once they're locked they generally stay locked unless you come right off the brakes - and not many people have the presence of mind to do that in the heat of the moment. Especially if the sudden braking is a reaction to some unexpected hazard. Result is even if you're in a straight line the car is very likely to spin. (Curiously, one good way out is to push the pedal through the floor. If you lock up all four wheels the car will slow down and keep pointing more or less the right way until you come off the brakes. This isn't the quickest way to stop and you shouldn't plan to do this, but if you need to recover the car *and* stop in a hurry, it's a winner.) It is easier to provoke this if the car is turning at all, and using engine braking or changing down roughly or under braking can make it almost inevitable. The moral is come on and off the brakes smoothly to control body pitch, don't change down under braking unless you match the revs perfectly, and don't brake really hard unless you're in a straight line. So, clearly Clarkson didn't know what he was talking about, these cars are almost foolproof. :-) Peter Humphries (and a green V9S)

[pete]

I bought a Griff 500 last year with much the same reservations about the handling. However, a few months after I bought it I took it along to an airfield day so I could see how it handled in a relatively safe environment. Basically I was gobsmacked. In the dry it took loony behaviour in its stride - it was pretty easy to control near the limit, and the limit was far beyond the speed I'd feel comfortable on the road. Having said that, when it did break away it wasn't easy at all to recover the spin - definitely not something you'd want on a public road where there are trees, pedestrians and other cars! The car generated cornering forces which felt like they were going to pitch me into the passenger seat before it lost grip. In the wet the limit was much lower, but the breakaway was correspondingly more gentle. As Peter says, it was engine braking which proved troublesome - I had to be really careful to rev-match on downshifts or the car would tend to fishtail violently. Other than that it was great fun! Even since then I've got nowhere near the same speeds on the road - everything just seems far too solid and close. You do have to be careful accelerating away from roundabouts and corners though. More than once I've hit a patch of diesel or water while accelerating hard in 3rd and the car's given a warning twitch, which can be 'disconcerting' Providing you remember that the throttle pedal is not an on/off switch, and you get a bit of practice off the public roads, you'll be fine. Pete

[Mr.C]

quote: Peter Humphries (and a green V9S)

I see you've upgraded your engine Isn't the V9 a bit lumpy?

[Dr Chuff]

If I remember correctly, in the Top Gear article, Clarkson(or may have been Tiff) was trying to get the Chimaera sideways round the bends, and failing. This is hard to do, as TVRs are designed to go round forwards, and resist any sideways movement. He should have tried just taking the racing line, it would have been much quicker. Dr C

[GreenV8S]

You know how unreliable these things can be, never hurts to have a spare!

quote:[quote] Peter Humphries (and a green V9S)

I see you've upgraded your engine Isn't the V9 a bit lumpy?

[Garry Mettam]

Many thanks Peter and Pete - when I find the right car I will attend a track day and hopefully learn to appreciate what you are saying. A Griff 500 will be my first choice but having read all the tales of woe about Chim residuals perhaps a 5L Chim will be easier to find at a good price. May be a few months away yet but I’ll let you know how I get on. It was Clarkson in the Top Gear article - whatever it was he was trying (and failing) to do, Tiff could do. It seems to me that no-one on Top Gear can go round corners anything other than sideways. All good fun to watch but I can’t help thinking of the hordes of 18 year old XR3 drivers who try to do likewise at Weston-Super-Mare, or wherever else it is that they hang out. Garry

[andywaterfall]

Have to agree. I got Tiff Needell's latest video "Burning Rubber" for Chrimbo, and while it's quite a laugh to watch, it's really just a joyrider's instruction manual. To anybody with low self-restraint (not me of course), it positively encourages you to be a hooligan: how to do handbrake turns, J-turns, doughnuts, get the back end out etc etc. Even I was a yob five minutes after watching it, and I'm ancient (well, 36). I can easily see someone damaging themselves or somebody else and blaming it on Tiff. Hope not, cos he seems like quite a nice bloke. AndyW Griff500

[Graham]

>>>>>I can easily see someone damaging themselves or somebody else and blaming it on Tiff. Hope not, cos he seems like quite a nice bloke. <<<<<< Thats just got to be a matter of time, before some ambulance chaser legal firm works that one out!!!! as you say i hope not. I met Tiff at daytona a couple of years ago at the rolex24 with the Lister. He seems quite a genuine chap and took time out to have a chat with us in the pits... G

[Marshy]

The clarkson article is in an issue of Top Gear where they compare the M Roadster to the Chim 500. Clarkson went in with the tiv as his fave, Tiff with the BMW. By the end, they'd reversed their opinions. The comment specifically was something like "when the back end comes 'round... it keeps coming round". Tiff mastered it, Clarkson didn't. Tempered with "floor it at any speed in any gear and the Chimaera scuttles off in a relentless quest to headbut the horizon." :-) [Both paraphrased from memory] Anyway, I found that on a dry airfield day, my Chimaera 500 was pretty easy to get along with as long as you went for the slow in, fast out approach. I could retrieve the back end if it did go a-wandering. However, go in to a corner too fast, and it all gets out of shape alarmingly quickly. My one spin was when I did just that, and it all happened so fast that I have no idea what happened. Or how many times I went around...! So I came away with a fair degree of respect for the car...

[philshort]

Cold day, Chim 500 (decatted & chipped), tight bend, damp patch, first time in the car for a few weeks = unplanned offroad excursion. Lost the back going in, held it but oversteered off the apex and fell off the road. Nasty piece of concrete in the hedgerow means I have two smashed wheels and two seriously bent wishbones. Respect is due to the V8 - take care or they can bite!

[richb]

Sorry to hear of your "off" Phil, hope you are ok and that you get it all sorted quickly. Rich...

[philshort]

Thanks for the concern Rich. No lasting harm done, just a bit of embarrassment . My ego will recover quicker than the car . I am considering changing to 17" or 18" wheels since I need two new ones anyway. Might as well make a virtue out of necessity. I now have some replacement wishbones; anyone got any good ideas on how to finish them before fitting? (they come in a grey primer, pretty rough).