So that's what it feels like going backwards....
Discussion
and rapidly organised the RideDrive day I'd been promising myself soon after. Worth a thought..Yep, a Palmer driving in the wet course was actually on the agenda but sadly not soon enough. Anyway, to be positive about it... this Griff is coming back and should be better than new as there's no mechanical damage, and a respray wasn't too far off anyway.
Just the excuse I needed for a new tag - dg1 is now Ffirg 005, lest I forget.
Just the excuse I needed for a new tag - dg1 is now Ffirg 005, lest I forget.
dg1 said:
Last night on a greasy slip road onto the M4 (J11) my Griff and I had a bit of an incident...
www.winisp.net/don1/griff
No other car involved and the impact felt very gentle from the drivers seat which is the good news.
I guess it was the classic new-ish TVR owner's accident which I've read about but obviously didn't learn from. I was doing 30-odd mph and accelerating down the slip road, next thing I know the back's trying to go past the nose, caught that slide but over-corrected and slid backwards into the armco runnign down the slip road. Stupid mistake & very annoyed with myself
So, I've notified the insurance agents and while that process kicks in I need to figure out who I want to do the bodywork. I've searched the forums and found recommendations for Ewelme, and Steve Williams in Eton Wick and Harrison & Co. If anyone has recent personal experience of these or others in or near Berkshire please post (or mail me through my profile if it's not saying something nice)
Don
If the back end starts to get away from you, the safest option is almost always to stand on the brakes and lock all four wheels up. The car will stop in a straight line, and if it *does* hit anything it will have scrubbed off a lot of speed.
The other option is to try to catch it. This can use up a huge amount of space and if you fail, you are going to hit the scenery at undiminished speed and probably spinning (so you may well knock all four corners which will probably write the car off).
A common reason for losing the back end is using too low a gear in slippery conditions. At low revs the engine is very sensitive to very small throttle changes and it is extremely easy to unstick the rear wheels momentarily. Once the wheels start to spin the revs rise, the engine comes up the torque curve and in the blink of an eye you've got 1000 rpm worth of wheel spin. To add insult to injury, because you're in a high gear that 1000 rpm represents quite a lot of wheel speed in mph terms. Grip drops off as the amount of slip increases, and in slippery conditions it drops off very quickly indeed. All these factors compound each other and make it very easy to have a total loss of control. I suspect this is one reason why TVRs have such a bad history of single vehicle accidents. Fortunately, the cure is simple - drop down a gear, this improves all these factors and makes any slide that does happen much milder and more controllable. Also, get training and practice, and learn to recognise the signs. If you are caught by surprise, you stand virtually no chance of catching a rear wheel slide.
Been there done that too. On the M40 in the wet in a BMW 325 except I was doing 60+ when some muppet pulled out in front of me. You first reaction is always an over reaction unfortunately because you don’t have the time to think rationally.
Glad to see nobody was hurt and the car isn’t to badly damaged.
I did some skidpan training with the IAM and you are taught hit the clutch and gently steer into the skid. I that don’t work then keep the clutch in and hit the brake hard and sit and wait for it to stop. Very effective although not as much fun as trying to power slide the car round the circuit which got me some stern looks from the trainer.
I’ve had a few high powered rear wheel drive cars now and I always expect the back to brake loose no matter what, then if it happens at least it’s not a shock.
A word of warning thou’ check your rear tyres for legal depth of tread and if they are not legal change them quick before the insurance company spring an inspector in you.
Glad to see nobody was hurt and the car isn’t to badly damaged.
I did some skidpan training with the IAM and you are taught hit the clutch and gently steer into the skid. I that don’t work then keep the clutch in and hit the brake hard and sit and wait for it to stop. Very effective although not as much fun as trying to power slide the car round the circuit which got me some stern looks from the trainer.
I’ve had a few high powered rear wheel drive cars now and I always expect the back to brake loose no matter what, then if it happens at least it’s not a shock.
A word of warning thou’ check your rear tyres for legal depth of tread and if they are not legal change them quick before the insurance company spring an inspector in you.
RAW-SEWedge said:
A word of warning thou’ check your rear tyres for legal depth of tread and if they are not legal change them quick before the insurance company spring an inspector in you.
I know dealing with insurance companies can be a painful experience but that is quite frankly unacceptable
I'll get my coat!
Re GreenV8s' high gear/low gear:
I think he meant to type that the problem is increased by being in too high a gear in slippery conditions. As the wheels spin the engine moves up the torque curve toward max torque = more wheelspin etc etc visious circle.
Now if you were in a lower gear, the wheels will spin & the revs will increase but as the revs were higher to start with the engine will be moving away (higher) than max torque & as the revs go higher still the torque will start to drop off, thus lessening the wheelspin & making the slide easier to gather up.
Sorry if you meant something else!
I think he meant to type that the problem is increased by being in too high a gear in slippery conditions. As the wheels spin the engine moves up the torque curve toward max torque = more wheelspin etc etc visious circle.
Now if you were in a lower gear, the wheels will spin & the revs will increase but as the revs were higher to start with the engine will be moving away (higher) than max torque & as the revs go higher still the torque will start to drop off, thus lessening the wheelspin & making the slide easier to gather up.
Sorry if you meant something else!
Re the repairs:
I've had the misfortune to have 2 repairs to mine in the last year. Liphook Coachworks (Liphook, near Haslemere) & Bee Gees (Chessington, work done via Mole Valley) both did good work.
Be prepared to lose the car for a couple of months I'm afraid
>> Edited by Leadfoot on Saturday 30th August 00:13
I've had the misfortune to have 2 repairs to mine in the last year. Liphook Coachworks (Liphook, near Haslemere) & Bee Gees (Chessington, work done via Mole Valley) both did good work.
Be prepared to lose the car for a couple of months I'm afraid
>> Edited by Leadfoot on Saturday 30th August 00:13
simpo two said:
[quote=GreenV8S]
Fortunately, the cure is simple - drop down a gear, this improves all these factors and makes any slide that does happen much milder and more controllable. quote]
Up a gear surely?
It is counter intuitive, but I do mean down a gear. The problem is not how much throttle you need or how much torque you have available, its how quickly the torque increases as you open the throttle. When the engine is laboring you get 90% torque in the first 10% throttle travel. Stay in a lower gear, if you've got a heavy right foot you may get wheel spin more often but they will be much less dramatic. This gives you a chance to live long enough to develop the throttle control skills needed to drive these cars safely in slippery conditions.
TRy DOing it Backwards a long a 3bar Fence
even moe fun and quite frightening noise wise as the wood brakes and GRP crackes
Did use TVRBodyshop, mine did need a lot more work than yours looks likes it needs.
Was happy with the light upgrades and 95%happy with the rest of the work. Communication was a little difficult due to not being able to pop down and Give em a kick up the arse now and again.
IF you wanna Know more e-mail me through my profile.
BB
even moe fun and quite frightening noise wise as the wood brakes and GRP crackes Did use TVRBodyshop, mine did need a lot more work than yours looks likes it needs.
Was happy with the light upgrades and 95%happy with the rest of the work. Communication was a little difficult due to not being able to pop down and Give em a kick up the arse now and again.
IF you wanna Know more e-mail me through my profile.
BB
Well commiserations, we could all be there I am sure.
Another possibility for repair is Tom Horsburgh (amanda@tomhorsburghltd.fsnet.co.uk ) at Frensham just south of Farnham, Surrey. Although I haven't personally used them they have a high reputation for TVR work acccording to my neighbour and some TVR specialists in the area.
Whatever, "it's just a flesh wound", I sincerely hope - and you're back out there enjoying the scenery at high speed soon.
Good Luck!
Another possibility for repair is Tom Horsburgh (amanda@tomhorsburghltd.fsnet.co.uk ) at Frensham just south of Farnham, Surrey. Although I haven't personally used them they have a high reputation for TVR work acccording to my neighbour and some TVR specialists in the area.
Whatever, "it's just a flesh wound", I sincerely hope - and you're back out there enjoying the scenery at high speed soon.
Good Luck!
Tom Horsburgh is an absolute craftsman!
I recently had some bodywork and a full respray and was extremely impressed with his workmanship and service.
I highly recommend him, and you won't have to wait months to get your P&J back!
(01428) 608255
>> Edited by julianhj on Sunday 31st August 00:23
I recently had some bodywork and a full respray and was extremely impressed with his workmanship and service.
I highly recommend him, and you won't have to wait months to get your P&J back!
(01428) 608255
>> Edited by julianhj on Sunday 31st August 00:23
Edited by PetrolTed on Friday 2nd February 12:30
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