'bout time we had a brake question...
Discussion
I know this has been covered before but I’d be interested in peoples opinions before spending more money.
I have standard Griff 500 brakes with greenstuff pads/original discs and attend a couple of track days each year. My opinion of this set up is:
on the road: they work reasonably well but could do with more initial bite
on the track: excellent (in my limited experience) - totally different when really hot! Perhaps a little tail happy but nothing extreme.
It is very noticeable that the rears produce a great deal more dust than the fronts (get through two sets of rears to one set of fronts). Have had the callipers checked but may still have too much rear bias? (At Castle Combe I could hear the rears locking/"chirping" at Avon Rise as you approach Quarry)
I need new pads, so options seem to be:
1. Fit Ferodo DS 2000 pads only (or some other pad with better cold performance)
2. + new drilled/grooved discs (+ c £350)
3. + larger front discs (283/5mm) with 4 pot callipers and braided hoses (+ c.£1,000)
Not keen on larger front discs with standard callipers as there have been instances of discs cracking thought to be due to poor matching of calliper and disc.
The question really is whether upgrade no. 3 is really worth the considerable cost? Will it only be noticeable on the track and if so just how much better can they get?? Does upgrade no.2 actually make a difference? What is the benefit of cross drilling as opposed to just grooves?
Your opinions appreciated.
I have standard Griff 500 brakes with greenstuff pads/original discs and attend a couple of track days each year. My opinion of this set up is:
on the road: they work reasonably well but could do with more initial bite
on the track: excellent (in my limited experience) - totally different when really hot! Perhaps a little tail happy but nothing extreme.
It is very noticeable that the rears produce a great deal more dust than the fronts (get through two sets of rears to one set of fronts). Have had the callipers checked but may still have too much rear bias? (At Castle Combe I could hear the rears locking/"chirping" at Avon Rise as you approach Quarry)
I need new pads, so options seem to be:
1. Fit Ferodo DS 2000 pads only (or some other pad with better cold performance)
2. + new drilled/grooved discs (+ c £350)
3. + larger front discs (283/5mm) with 4 pot callipers and braided hoses (+ c.£1,000)
Not keen on larger front discs with standard callipers as there have been instances of discs cracking thought to be due to poor matching of calliper and disc.
The question really is whether upgrade no. 3 is really worth the considerable cost? Will it only be noticeable on the track and if so just how much better can they get?? Does upgrade no.2 actually make a difference? What is the benefit of cross drilling as opposed to just grooves?
Your opinions appreciated.
Brakes only slow you down - take them off and just put them back on for the MOT!
Seriously though, try Ferodo DS2500 - very grippy.
A brake upgrade of some kind at the front will remove the rear bias of the std brakes. A good thing.
Should cost you around £500-£600 for the 4 pot conversion you describe. Nearer £1,000 for 300mm discs. You'll probably need 16 inch wheels on the front then though.
EBC pads generate less dust than others, they last longer 'cos they eat the disc instead.
Seriously though, try Ferodo DS2500 - very grippy.
A brake upgrade of some kind at the front will remove the rear bias of the std brakes. A good thing.
Should cost you around £500-£600 for the 4 pot conversion you describe. Nearer £1,000 for 300mm discs. You'll probably need 16 inch wheels on the front then though.
EBC pads generate less dust than others, they last longer 'cos they eat the disc instead.
trefor said:
Nearer £1,000 for 300mm discs. You'll probably need 16 inch wheels on the front then though.
If you're keeping the original rear brakes as standard, you need to keep an eye on the brake balance. Yes the original has too much rear bias but you can go too far the other way. Somewhere round 280mm will be about right. You can get up to 300mm in the original 15" rims if you're careful, but that isn't to say that *all* 300mm conversions will fit.
Curiously, the rear dampers make quite a big contribution to rear wheel lock-up under braking and this is one of the things Nitron improved in their Griff/Chimaera setup.
GreenV8S said:
You can get up to 300mm in the original 15" rims if you're careful, but that isn't to say that *all* 300mm conversions will fit.
It's a SEAC - but.....
300mm disks plus Willwood four pot calipers were shoe-horned into my 15 inch OZ split rims; took them two attempts to get the mounting right and it is very tight in there.
However, the difference is fantastic!
I used to easily lock-up a wheel under heavy braking but since the conversion I have never locked a wheel.
Nacnud said:
I used to easily lock-up a wheel under heavy braking but since the conversion I have never locked a wheel.
You are not trying hard enough....
Got the 4 pot Wilwoods and 285 drilled grooved on the Griff shopping trolley and it is excellent. No fade. Plenty of stopping power and no issues with fit.
Thanks Peeps!
Interesting Duncan that with the bigger brakes you're now not locking brakes. My first thoughts were that it would be the other way around. I guess the bigger/better callipers give you more control?
That makes me think the brake upgrade with standard suspension may make things worse?
Any other thoughts on upgrading standard size discs?
Interesting Duncan that with the bigger brakes you're now not locking brakes. My first thoughts were that it would be the other way around. I guess the bigger/better callipers give you more control?
GreenV8S said:
Curiously, the rear dampers make quite a big contribution to rear wheel lock-up under braking and this is one of the things Nitron improved in their Griff/Chimaera setup.
That makes me think the brake upgrade with standard suspension may make things worse?
Any other thoughts on upgrading standard size discs?
Gary, I am in the same position. Austec Racing have suggested fitting decent pads (mintex, ferrodo), braided hoses and better brake fluid. They say that this will make a large improvement for minimal cost/time. The disk's can always be upgraded later. Also, get the wheel alignment checked. All this will be done at the next service.
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