Sloppy back and forth LT77
Discussion
The gearchange on the Griff seems to be OK, but the lever movement just doesn't feel as solid as it used to - if you get my drift.
Sorry if this has been posted before, but the search function is down.
There's a metal retainer on each side of the gear lever - which provides the stability in the left/right movement, and from what I can tell there's a ballbearing mechanism which probably stops it pushing out of gear. But what gives it the stability in the back and forth movement?
I'm off back to the car now armed with a camera, I'll post pics to see if anyone can see anything awry and would appreciate your help.
Ta
IanB
Sorry if this has been posted before, but the search function is down.
There's a metal retainer on each side of the gear lever - which provides the stability in the left/right movement, and from what I can tell there's a ballbearing mechanism which probably stops it pushing out of gear. But what gives it the stability in the back and forth movement?
I'm off back to the car now armed with a camera, I'll post pics to see if anyone can see anything awry and would appreciate your help.
Ta
IanB
Right, I'm back.
Does this look right?
Oh, I forgot to add, I think the car is in 3rd gear for these pics.
I'm still guessing that you shouldn't be able to see all that linkage though. I've had my finger up inside that bell shaped end (oh god!) and I can feel a spring pushing it upwards, but I don't get why it would be there at all if it sits so high up the gear lever. I'd have thought it was that shape to sit over and cover the linkage.
Anyway, I'll stop waffling and leave it to you.
Thanks
IanB
Gear Lever
gear lever pic2
Does this look right?
Oh, I forgot to add, I think the car is in 3rd gear for these pics.
I'm still guessing that you shouldn't be able to see all that linkage though. I've had my finger up inside that bell shaped end (oh god!) and I can feel a spring pushing it upwards, but I don't get why it would be there at all if it sits so high up the gear lever. I'd have thought it was that shape to sit over and cover the linkage.
Anyway, I'll stop waffling and leave it to you.
Thanks
IanB
Gear Lever
gear lever pic2
Edited by Barreti on Sunday 22 December 12:44
Hi Ian, the nylon rose joint can be seen when you remove the gear lever. Mine disintegrated a couple of years back and I replaced it. To get the lever out, gently move the spring "fingers" sideways past the short cross rods running thro your stick (see your photos). The stick will then just lift straight out of its spherical seat, and also the rose joint nylon bush which is underneath said seat...
The rose joint is retained in the linkage mechanism by a circlip which can be located from underneath the car, but don't remove this if the joint is sound because it's a right bu**er to get to. While you're there, grease the spherical seat and joint and the linkages - it made a great difference to the feel of by gear change.
Out of interest, the spherical seat is the pivot for the lever (side-side, back-forward), and rotation of the stick in the seat is prevented by the cross rods in slots; the rose joint is to transfer the motion of the stick into the linkage machanism - It's all crystal clear when you take it apart.
ATB
Steve
The rose joint is retained in the linkage mechanism by a circlip which can be located from underneath the car, but don't remove this if the joint is sound because it's a right bu**er to get to. While you're there, grease the spherical seat and joint and the linkages - it made a great difference to the feel of by gear change.
Out of interest, the spherical seat is the pivot for the lever (side-side, back-forward), and rotation of the stick in the seat is prevented by the cross rods in slots; the rose joint is to transfer the motion of the stick into the linkage machanism - It's all crystal clear when you take it apart.
ATB
Steve
Thank you Red Griff 500
A perfect description and I'm going to print it and have a go tomorrow night at getting the gearlever off and having a look at that bush - which I'm sure is the problem because the gearbox itself isn't being awkward and wasn't making any nasty noises etc before everything went wobbly.
I'll let you know how I get on and thanks again.
IanB
A perfect description and I'm going to print it and have a go tomorrow night at getting the gearlever off and having a look at that bush - which I'm sure is the problem because the gearbox itself isn't being awkward and wasn't making any nasty noises etc before everything went wobbly.
I'll let you know how I get on and thanks again.
IanB
aaargh, I didn't realise the little bearing thingy would fire out when I lifted out the gearlever 
I think the nylon bush is shot, I think I've recovered acracked outer ring but nothing as an inner - except a very worn line inside the outer ring, if you get my meaning.
When tinypic.com gets its act together again I'll post some pictures for advice so I'd appreciate your help again chaps (that means you Red Griff 500
)
I think the nylon bush is shot, I think I've recovered acracked outer ring but nothing as an inner - except a very worn line inside the outer ring, if you get my meaning.
When tinypic.com gets its act together again I'll post some pictures for advice so I'd appreciate your help again chaps (that means you Red Griff 500
) OK, FINALLY the website is up again...
This lever...
bottom of gear lever showing hole for pressure spring
Came out and left this stuck in the hole...
gearbox rosejoint linkage view through centre console
Now from what I can tell from looking at the LT77 gearbox manual, the gear lever on a landrover LT77 has a ball on the end - which would fit into what in the manual is called the gear lever seating which then in turn sits in the Trunnion. (Doncha love engineering words)
From what I can tell, the last picture is the Gear Lever Seating, and the Trunnion can be seen through the hole in the middle picture - correct ?
So is the TVR version different in the seating/trunnion bit or is there something missing off the end of that gearlever?
Here's the page I'm looking at in the LT77 manual
LT77 gear lever exploded view
This lever...
bottom of gear lever showing hole for pressure spring
Came out and left this stuck in the hole...
gearbox rosejoint linkage view through centre console
Now from what I can tell from looking at the LT77 gearbox manual, the gear lever on a landrover LT77 has a ball on the end - which would fit into what in the manual is called the gear lever seating which then in turn sits in the Trunnion. (Doncha love engineering words)
From what I can tell, the last picture is the Gear Lever Seating, and the Trunnion can be seen through the hole in the middle picture - correct ?
So is the TVR version different in the seating/trunnion bit or is there something missing off the end of that gearlever?
Here's the page I'm looking at in the LT77 manual
LT77 gear lever exploded view
Edited by Barreti on Sunday 22 December 12:45
Ian, sorry I forgot that little spring/nylon plunger assembly which flies out when you take the stick out of the ball joint – the compression spring goes back into the hole in the ball first and then a nylon plunger. This plunger applies a pre-load to the joint to take out slop. You can see the plunger poking its little head out of the ball joint seat in your “3rd gear” picture.
What you see through the hole in the transmission tunnel is actually a remote mechanism, not the top of the gearbox and I believe this is TVR designed, not Rover and therefore I would guess that the stick arrangement is also TVR?. Gear shift input to the box is actually some distance back from this. It looks like the lower rose joint fixed in the remote is knackered (this was the case with mine). I bought a replacement from David Geralds and re-fitted it, but as I said before, it was a bu**er to fit the retaining circlip from underneath the car. The plastic housing pushes into a hole in the linkage directly underneath the stick, abnd the circlip fits into a groove from underneath to retain it. You can see the circlip groove in your picture of the plastic rose joint housing (it's in the outside diameter i.e. it's an external circlip). IIRC there is a steel ball with a hole through it which sits in the central hole in that nylon housing, and the shaft diameter at the bottom of your stick slides through this hole
Good luck
What you see through the hole in the transmission tunnel is actually a remote mechanism, not the top of the gearbox and I believe this is TVR designed, not Rover and therefore I would guess that the stick arrangement is also TVR?. Gear shift input to the box is actually some distance back from this. It looks like the lower rose joint fixed in the remote is knackered (this was the case with mine). I bought a replacement from David Geralds and re-fitted it, but as I said before, it was a bu**er to fit the retaining circlip from underneath the car. The plastic housing pushes into a hole in the linkage directly underneath the stick, abnd the circlip fits into a groove from underneath to retain it. You can see the circlip groove in your picture of the plastic rose joint housing (it's in the outside diameter i.e. it's an external circlip). IIRC there is a steel ball with a hole through it which sits in the central hole in that nylon housing, and the shaft diameter at the bottom of your stick slides through this hole
Good luck
Edited by red griff 500 on Friday 21st July 16:08
Hi again, here's an update for those interested.
The thing I could see when I'd removed the gear lever was the top of a nylon bush with a rosejoint which the gear lever sits in.
The gear lever pressure spring which you can just see the edge of in (Gear Lever Pic 2) and which fired across the garage when I pulled out the gear lever looks like this
|https://thumbsnap.com/vRmPwZ4N[/url]
Gear lever pressure spring
New rosejoint has arrived - it cost all of £20 incl govt thievery and carriage.
I'll fit it today with any luck and let you know what sort of job it is.
Here's some pictures of the rose joint as it is when new.
Rosejoint and circlip top view
|https://thumbsnap.com/s3bPjpvf[/url]
Rosejoint side view
Rosejoint bottom view
The thing I could see when I'd removed the gear lever was the top of a nylon bush with a rosejoint which the gear lever sits in.
The gear lever pressure spring which you can just see the edge of in (Gear Lever Pic 2) and which fired across the garage when I pulled out the gear lever looks like this
|https://thumbsnap.com/vRmPwZ4N[/url]Gear lever pressure spring
New rosejoint has arrived - it cost all of £20 incl govt thievery and carriage.
I'll fit it today with any luck and let you know what sort of job it is.
Here's some pictures of the rose joint as it is when new.
Rosejoint and circlip top view
|https://thumbsnap.com/s3bPjpvf[/url]Rosejoint side view
Rosejoint bottom view
Edited by Barreti on Sunday 22 December 13:01
Jeeeeeez, what a swine of a job.
I dropped the rose joint into place and was there thinking "this is going to be a piece of cake"
Pah!
I've been under the car all afternoon and still don't have the circlip on - in fact I don't have the circlip at all any more, it pinged off the circlip pliers for the 87th time and vanished into thin air. I mean it literally, I've had my hand all around under the car, beyond my elbow into recesses sometimes, and I can't find the damned thing anywhere.
and if anyone asks me if I've looked on the floor, like my mate did at least a dozen times, I'm coming round your house to slap you silly
No, the f......g circlip isn't on the f......g floor
[and breathe ....]
A trip to Halfords is on the cards tomorrow to hopefully get a replacement circlip.
A trip to the pub is a certainty tonight to hopefully get a sense of humour back.
I dropped the rose joint into place and was there thinking "this is going to be a piece of cake"
Pah!
I've been under the car all afternoon and still don't have the circlip on - in fact I don't have the circlip at all any more, it pinged off the circlip pliers for the 87th time and vanished into thin air. I mean it literally, I've had my hand all around under the car, beyond my elbow into recesses sometimes, and I can't find the damned thing anywhere.
and if anyone asks me if I've looked on the floor, like my mate did at least a dozen times, I'm coming round your house to slap you silly
No, the f......g circlip isn't on the f......g floor
[and breathe ....]
A trip to Halfords is on the cards tomorrow to hopefully get a replacement circlip.
A trip to the pub is a certainty tonight to hopefully get a sense of humour back.
Hi Ian, I think I did tell you that the circlip was a b*****d to get on. I seem to remember that I was in the car holding the plastic bush in the housing whilst my mate was underneath the car fitting the clip - it took an hour or two and we too needed a beer afterwards. The spring plunger in the spherical bit in your stick is a piece of cake to fit in comparison with this.
Remember to grease all the joints you can while your there, it will make the shift feel soooo much better!
Remember to grease all the joints you can while your there, it will make the shift feel soooo much better!
HOORAY
No, make that HOORAY!!
It took me another 4 hours today but just as I was about to give up, and let the Mrs out of the car to finish dinner, I had a 'beserker' moment - you know, when you just go for it and bugger the consequences - and the circlip finally went on.
I had to remove the reversing light switch - which I'd only recently got the garage to do because I couldn't do it - along with the plate mechanism which activates it, so I've still got that to put back and the reversing light switch to calibrate but I feel better knowing its all working again (I think)
I know you warned me Red Griff 500 but you know how it is with these things, you have to find out for yourself. It is only 1 circlip after all eh
No, make that HOORAY!!
It took me another 4 hours today but just as I was about to give up, and let the Mrs out of the car to finish dinner, I had a 'beserker' moment - you know, when you just go for it and bugger the consequences - and the circlip finally went on.
I had to remove the reversing light switch - which I'd only recently got the garage to do because I couldn't do it - along with the plate mechanism which activates it, so I've still got that to put back and the reversing light switch to calibrate but I feel better knowing its all working again (I think)
I know you warned me Red Griff 500 but you know how it is with these things, you have to find out for yourself. It is only 1 circlip after all eh
)Grrrrrrr 
[swear] [swear] [swear]
Damned circip popped off tonight when I was testing everything
So, with the help of the Mrs (again) (and didn't she let me know it) I've got it back on.
Odd thing is the nylon bush had been pushed upwards - which is what I'm guessing forced off the circlip.
The only thing I can think of is I over-tightened the spring loaded L shaped plate under the gearlever.
Is this likely to have been the problem?
How do I know how much to tighten that spring loaded plate? I'm guessing I need to tighten in until the springs are compressed a bit, then do it a bit at a time and feel the gear lever movement to see if it's working ok?
I take it the plate is what centres the gear lever - as well as providing a mechanism for activating the reversing light switch?
Here is a photo of the linkage from underneath. the rosejoint is visible and you can just make out the circlip to the left of the pressing numbers.
gearbox remote mechanism
[swear] [swear] [swear]
Damned circip popped off tonight when I was testing everything
So, with the help of the Mrs (again) (and didn't she let me know it) I've got it back on.
Odd thing is the nylon bush had been pushed upwards - which is what I'm guessing forced off the circlip.
The only thing I can think of is I over-tightened the spring loaded L shaped plate under the gearlever.
Is this likely to have been the problem?
How do I know how much to tighten that spring loaded plate? I'm guessing I need to tighten in until the springs are compressed a bit, then do it a bit at a time and feel the gear lever movement to see if it's working ok?
I take it the plate is what centres the gear lever - as well as providing a mechanism for activating the reversing light switch?
Here is a photo of the linkage from underneath. the rosejoint is visible and you can just make out the circlip to the left of the pressing numbers.
gearbox remote mechanism
Edited by Barreti on Sunday 22 December 13:09
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