Last 100 Griffs
Discussion
I'm looking to upgrade to a Griff and have seen a few of the last 100 Griffs for sale. They seem to be priced around £28-30k. I have spoken to various people and have had a very mixed response. Many people dislike the subtle modifications and so I would like to put it to the public vote and ask all you experts for your gut feeling on whether the last 100 will or will not be desirable in the future? Or do you think I would be better off buying any other particular model?
Please reply, all comments will be greatly received.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Please reply, all comments will be greatly received.
Thanks in advance for your help.
I've got one of the last Griffs (70/100) and whilst I appreciate some people don't like some of the cosmetic changes I think they're all for the good, particularly having the larger headlights which give proper illumination with no need for considering any upgrades. For me the back end of the last 100 hundred looks better with the individual lights arrangement. The back end even varied on the last 100, with some having the flat, backlit style and the others the angled, conventionally lit type. One of the reasons I bought it was the hope (I hope not in vain) that in time they might become sought-after. Having had a Cerbera previously and seen it's value plummet in a year or so of ownership I'm hoping that the Griffith doesn't depreciate in the same fashion. I might be putting it to the test this year as I'm hankering after T350. We shall see.
As for the car - fantastic.
Cheers, Paul
As for the car - fantastic.
Cheers, Paul
Interior changes good 
Exterior changes not so good
IMHO
My considered opinion as to whether it'll be worth more in the future is...........dunno.
If you mean in 20 years or so, then I think an original (4/4.3L precat engined) one will be worth the most.
Buy the car you want to own at the mo'.
Exterior changes not so good
IMHO My considered opinion as to whether it'll be worth more in the future is...........dunno.
If you mean in 20 years or so, then I think an original (4/4.3L precat engined) one will be worth the most.
Buy the car you want to own at the mo'.
The various mods are:
- Cerbera seats
- Revised dash and stalks
- Corrado style door mirrors
- 16" wheels at the front (some have the multispokes)
- revised 'pepper pot' rear lights
I think they also have full leather - but then that was always an option anyway.
Of these, the only one I'm not sure about is the rear lights.
The seats are a vast improvement on the Griff ones in terms of comfort and lateral support. The dash gets rid of the worst cosmetic bit on the Griff - the plastic air vents, replacing them with brass 'eye balls'. Everyone puts alloy stalks on anyway.
Personally I like the new mirrors, which is why I've just fitted them to mine.
16" wheels - no real comment except it means you can run TOYO tyres all round (you can't with the 15" fronts). The multispokes are probably hard to keep clean.
The rear lights just don't do it for me - but other people love them.
So where does that leave you? The last 100 seem to command a huge premium (whether or not they actually sell for that, I don't know). You can buy a 1999/2000 car not an SE) for around £22k - so it is a big step up from this to the SE at £28-30k.
Is it worth it - only you can answer that.
Will it retain the premium? I don't think it will - as the differences are cosmetic I think the premium will be eroded over the next few years - not totally, but in 3 years time it might be worth £1k more than a non SE, rather than the notional £6-8k now.
Its a bit like adding loads of options to a car - you lose most of the money when you come to sell - although it may make Car A easier to sell than Car B
All Griffs are desirable and as with a lot of cars, the newer the car, the more desirable it is (with the exception of something like the 4.3 BV non cat cars).
If you've got the money, you like the car, you find one in the right colour combination and you are not overly worried about depreciation, go for it!
Edited to say - Doh! I forgot about the larger headlights!!
>> Edited by Griff2be on Wednesday 15th January 19:29
- Cerbera seats
- Revised dash and stalks
- Corrado style door mirrors
- 16" wheels at the front (some have the multispokes)
- revised 'pepper pot' rear lights
I think they also have full leather - but then that was always an option anyway.
Of these, the only one I'm not sure about is the rear lights.
The seats are a vast improvement on the Griff ones in terms of comfort and lateral support. The dash gets rid of the worst cosmetic bit on the Griff - the plastic air vents, replacing them with brass 'eye balls'. Everyone puts alloy stalks on anyway.
Personally I like the new mirrors, which is why I've just fitted them to mine.
16" wheels - no real comment except it means you can run TOYO tyres all round (you can't with the 15" fronts). The multispokes are probably hard to keep clean.
The rear lights just don't do it for me - but other people love them.
So where does that leave you? The last 100 seem to command a huge premium (whether or not they actually sell for that, I don't know). You can buy a 1999/2000 car not an SE) for around £22k - so it is a big step up from this to the SE at £28-30k.
Is it worth it - only you can answer that.
Will it retain the premium? I don't think it will - as the differences are cosmetic I think the premium will be eroded over the next few years - not totally, but in 3 years time it might be worth £1k more than a non SE, rather than the notional £6-8k now.
Its a bit like adding loads of options to a car - you lose most of the money when you come to sell - although it may make Car A easier to sell than Car B
All Griffs are desirable and as with a lot of cars, the newer the car, the more desirable it is (with the exception of something like the 4.3 BV non cat cars).
If you've got the money, you like the car, you find one in the right colour combination and you are not overly worried about depreciation, go for it!
Edited to say - Doh! I forgot about the larger headlights!!
>> Edited by Griff2be on Wednesday 15th January 19:29
Not sure it's really that big a premium, more like depriciation. Also I think to need to compare like with like, (ie main dealer prices or private and spec levels) 1999 S/T reg are around 25K at a main dealer. Although I did see 27k a few months ago! The SE's are mainly at dealers. Hawthorns have two SE, 2001 cars for 32K.
Griff2be said: The last 100 seem to command a huge premium (whether or not they actually sell for that, I don't know). You can buy a 1999/2000 car not an SE) for around £22k - so it is a big step up from this to the SE at £28-30k.
New 500SE were, Henley have just sold one, 38K+.
So depriciation about 4K pa upto 99T, then 2K pa to give you the 12/14K for 92/93. All approx and what I used for quick calibration of dealer asking prices.
Hence I was looking for a T reg car!
Yes, when I first saw the SE pictures I wasn't sold on the non cavilier rear lights, but it does take me a while to get used to new designs.
However I saw 001/100 on Autotrader/TVR Centre and went to see it.
Bye Bye Budget! 2000 miles later - it's great!
The alloy dash is a bit too reflective with this low sun.
In the long term it will be condition. The number ?MAY? make it more sellable. However 4.3BV with history will also be sellable
David
(see www.autotrader.co.uk for some asking prices)
I have seen several and I would rather be seen in a Chimaera.... Personal thing but they just don' t do anything for me. Are they a good investment? I doubt it simply because of the very high premium.
BTW not all the cars had 16 inch wheels or the Ally dash. Basically they ran out of tyres so had to go to the 16 inch.
BTW not all the cars had 16 inch wheels or the Ally dash. Basically they ran out of tyres so had to go to the 16 inch.
Paul do you like it?
You're not buying new (can't) so really it's not an issue is it? As has been said the Griffith is a "classic" TVR and I doubt that being a "100 SE" will command much of a premium in 4-5 years time.
Ok my personal thoughts are that the rear lights on the Griff' were a fundamental part of the design, in the same way as the upside-down Cortina "ban-the-bomb" lights were on the Manx-tail Tuscans. Do away with them and the whole back-end design looses its integrity. The Griffith was the first TVR design to use the scalloped door leading-edge, this feature is then picked-up by the rear lights being scalloped into the wing and not fully faired-in. So as you can gues I don't like the little "piss-holes-in-the-snow" tail lights on the 100 SE.
As for wheels, ally dash, stalks, 5mm bigger headlamps etc. all this can and most probably will have been changed on some of the cars you view. And... agreeing about the Cerbera seats you could buy a pair of ex-Cerbera seats second hand and have them re-trimmed to match your chosen car or... get a new set from the factory, all for much less than the £10k+ you will pay to get a 100 SE vs' a '99T/V with the right colour & trim combination for you.
Happy hunting Rich...
You're not buying new (can't) so really it's not an issue is it? As has been said the Griffith is a "classic" TVR and I doubt that being a "100 SE" will command much of a premium in 4-5 years time.
Ok my personal thoughts are that the rear lights on the Griff' were a fundamental part of the design, in the same way as the upside-down Cortina "ban-the-bomb" lights were on the Manx-tail Tuscans. Do away with them and the whole back-end design looses its integrity. The Griffith was the first TVR design to use the scalloped door leading-edge, this feature is then picked-up by the rear lights being scalloped into the wing and not fully faired-in. So as you can gues I don't like the little "piss-holes-in-the-snow" tail lights on the 100 SE.
As for wheels, ally dash, stalks, 5mm bigger headlamps etc. all this can and most probably will have been changed on some of the cars you view. And... agreeing about the Cerbera seats you could buy a pair of ex-Cerbera seats second hand and have them re-trimmed to match your chosen car or... get a new set from the factory, all for much less than the £10k+ you will pay to get a 100 SE vs' a '99T/V with the right colour & trim combination for you.
Happy hunting Rich...
All the last 100 Griffiths definatley had factory standard 16 Inch Alloys on, the last ones had the old BBS type on them, dated them but still looked nice IMO, The alloy dashboard was on the first one exhibited at the Birmingham Motorshow and it had upgraded leather as well.
Some owners who have had paint work done or warranty issues done on paintwark have had their rear ends completely blended in to give a smoother feel, this does look extremly nice and a little more finished IMO again.
Superb edition, a definate future classic a 4.3 of it's age for sure, values always dictate the supply and with them selling at £38K still this tells you the whole story.
Some owners who have had paint work done or warranty issues done on paintwark have had their rear ends completely blended in to give a smoother feel, this does look extremly nice and a little more finished IMO again.
Superb edition, a definate future classic a 4.3 of it's age for sure, values always dictate the supply and with them selling at £38K still this tells you the whole story.
1999 S/T reg are around 25K at a main dealer. Although I did see 27k a few months ago! The SE's are mainly at dealers. Hawthorns have two SE, 2001 cars for 32K.
tvrgaas said:
Mine is a 1999 T reg car and was on sale for £25k at a main dealer in March last year. I bought it from them for £22k. Well specced car (full leather) in popular colours (navy blue paint, cream leather). Oh - and I got a years warranty (WH, but full retail value).
Henley Heritage had that new SE in stock for AGES. Whilst I doubt they got full list price for it, perhaps they did.
May be everyone else doesn't negotiate hard enough?!
I own No. 5/100. Why did I buy it ...
1 - The Cerberra seats are far superior.
2 - Never ever liked the original Griffith dash with its silly little bit in front of the gearstick and horrible air vents (although I would have had one and lived with it for the right car)
3 - Prefer the rear lights
4 - Better headlights
But more importantly than any of that, which was all just a bonus was ......... I bloody loved it as a 'car', a complete package. It was the perfect car for me and having spent 6 months looking I had not found a car that suited. As for MASSIVE premiums you are talking nonsense ...
The huge premiums are being applied to SE's that are right at the end of the production ... Mine is early on and I reckon I paid a premium of £1500 compared to non SE's of the same age. It was a dealer bought car. To get the same upgrades to an existing Griffith would cost more and therefor it made economic sense for me to buy it, as I would have probably had to change it in the end...
It very much depends on what numbers you are buying. The identical twin of my car but Number 97 or 98 was at TMS for 38k ! I wouldn't spend that, but if I could afford too and I really liked the car etc etc etc I would.
I won't hesitate to defend my Griffith purchase as I bought the car that suits me, not you lot, not the bloke next door or his mother.
If you like it, can afford it ..... BUY IT !!!
As for whether they are much better than other Griffithd of similar age etc etc then that is down to the details mentioned about seats and lights and the like. I think they are good improvements and the interior of my car is just superb. Take the Chimaera heater controls, Tuscan vents, Cerberra seats etc are a much better IMHO than original kit. Personal, not a statement to put anyone nose out of joint ...
I must qualify all of this by saying that, if I had found an original Griffith in the right combination of colours and quality of finish then I would have bought it, without a doubt. This just happened to 'pop up' at the right time.
Mark
>> Edited by johno on Thursday 16th January 10:35
1 - The Cerberra seats are far superior.
2 - Never ever liked the original Griffith dash with its silly little bit in front of the gearstick and horrible air vents (although I would have had one and lived with it for the right car)
3 - Prefer the rear lights
4 - Better headlights
But more importantly than any of that, which was all just a bonus was ......... I bloody loved it as a 'car', a complete package. It was the perfect car for me and having spent 6 months looking I had not found a car that suited. As for MASSIVE premiums you are talking nonsense ...
The huge premiums are being applied to SE's that are right at the end of the production ... Mine is early on and I reckon I paid a premium of £1500 compared to non SE's of the same age. It was a dealer bought car. To get the same upgrades to an existing Griffith would cost more and therefor it made economic sense for me to buy it, as I would have probably had to change it in the end...
It very much depends on what numbers you are buying. The identical twin of my car but Number 97 or 98 was at TMS for 38k ! I wouldn't spend that, but if I could afford too and I really liked the car etc etc etc I would.
I won't hesitate to defend my Griffith purchase as I bought the car that suits me, not you lot, not the bloke next door or his mother.
If you like it, can afford it ..... BUY IT !!!
As for whether they are much better than other Griffithd of similar age etc etc then that is down to the details mentioned about seats and lights and the like. I think they are good improvements and the interior of my car is just superb. Take the Chimaera heater controls, Tuscan vents, Cerberra seats etc are a much better IMHO than original kit. Personal, not a statement to put anyone nose out of joint ...
I must qualify all of this by saying that, if I had found an original Griffith in the right combination of colours and quality of finish then I would have bought it, without a doubt. This just happened to 'pop up' at the right time.
Mark
>> Edited by johno on Thursday 16th January 10:35
It is only worth what someone will pay for it and that might explain why there are still some of these cars on dealer's forecourts right now.
£10 grand for a few cosmetic chnages is a whole lot of money especially when those changes have not met with the universal thumbs up. Many like them and many don't. This makes the case even harder.
I think many owners would like to think that these cars will hold their value more but I expect they will follow the same depreciation curve of the earlier cars.
Like any TVR if you like it, buy it. It is an emotional decision and not an investment.
£10 grand for a few cosmetic chnages is a whole lot of money especially when those changes have not met with the universal thumbs up. Many like them and many don't. This makes the case even harder.
I think many owners would like to think that these cars will hold their value more but I expect they will follow the same depreciation curve of the earlier cars.
Like any TVR if you like it, buy it. It is an emotional decision and not an investment.
(sarcastic) smilie to his initial post. Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff