LS1 (chevi)+T56 (six-speed) swap for Griffith
Discussion
Hi there,
to make a long story short. My 4.3l is dead, and the new 4.6l with all modifications (275 HP on the Dyno) is on it´s way to death again (Oel pressure down - bearings).
I want to get ridd of the rover engine. Does anyone knows for sure if the LS1 + six speed T56 transmission fitts into the Griffith. The major problem I see is that the LS1 is a bit wider. The exaust manifold will be the major challenge I think.
Can anyone help?
to make a long story short. My 4.3l is dead, and the new 4.6l with all modifications (275 HP on the Dyno) is on it´s way to death again (Oel pressure down - bearings).
I want to get ridd of the rover engine. Does anyone knows for sure if the LS1 + six speed T56 transmission fitts into the Griffith. The major problem I see is that the LS1 is a bit wider. The exaust manifold will be the major challenge I think.
Can anyone help?
Found these threads:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17371&f=13&h=0&hw=ls1
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=15988&f=13&h=0&hw=ls1
Looks like it's all there for you if you want to take the plunge!
Sounds like a great idea - I hope you go for it
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17371&f=13&h=0&hw=ls1
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=15988&f=13&h=0&hw=ls1
Looks like it's all there for you if you want to take the plunge!
Sounds like a great idea - I hope you go for it
I've sized it up myself just for amusement and I'm sure it would fit. Keeping the T5 would also mean reducing the length of the gearbox linkage which could also help the shift.
However, by the time you've done this and paid for it you could easily have had the Rover rebuilt properly with some nice Wildcat heads, stroker crank, forged rods & pistons, trippled-throttle plenum etc and would have a package that would easily out perform the GM V8. Most of the 'sophistication' the GM uses is to keep emissions within tolerance for the US market and thus keep this aging V8 going. The Rover V8 is a very nice engine when tuned properly and with the Wildcat heads and some decent induction the sky is the limit in terms of power. There's a Tuscan here in NZ running against LeMans Porkers and he's got nearly 600bhp out of his engine (admittedly running on Avgas).
You may also want to talk to Triumph Rover Spares (triumph@internode.on.net) in Aussie as they are developing a twin-turbo conversion which promises over 400bhp at the rear wheels for 10k AUSD (ballpark figure).
However, by the time you've done this and paid for it you could easily have had the Rover rebuilt properly with some nice Wildcat heads, stroker crank, forged rods & pistons, trippled-throttle plenum etc and would have a package that would easily out perform the GM V8. Most of the 'sophistication' the GM uses is to keep emissions within tolerance for the US market and thus keep this aging V8 going. The Rover V8 is a very nice engine when tuned properly and with the Wildcat heads and some decent induction the sky is the limit in terms of power. There's a Tuscan here in NZ running against LeMans Porkers and he's got nearly 600bhp out of his engine (admittedly running on Avgas).
You may also want to talk to Triumph Rover Spares (triumph@internode.on.net) in Aussie as they are developing a twin-turbo conversion which promises over 400bhp at the rear wheels for 10k AUSD (ballpark figure).
Gotta reply to this. I know both engines well and they have the good and bad points. The Rover is lightweight and compact but 40 years old etc as is the original Gen 1 cast iron small block chevy. Gen 3 LS1 was designed in the 90'ies at great expence and its all aluminium! Do you think they did it without intending it to be THE engine to have for the next 40 years. How much did they spend on they're engine compared to Rover or BMW. They put it in the Corvette after all which is GM's flagship sports car. Ive read it will do sub 4 second times in a 3000lb car with full emmissions kit. They certainly took it seriously, everything about a stock LS1 it is better then in a stock Rover. I won't detail it all here but there is stuff on various websites to look at. They also make 400 hp reliably with cats etc. Normally aspirated they are up to 600 hp and with low boost turbos and no internal changes I have seen reports of them making 650 rwhp reliably. Everybody is waiting for a 1000 bhp engine but I think thats been done on OZ. Then theres Le Mans and a load of American championships etc. The only thing this engine has in common with the iron small block is the big end shells, everything else is new. Sure you may get 400 hp from a Rover on turbos and with fairly mundane internals like stock rods and crank but I'd rather have 600 hp from a stock LS1 with turbos and it's 6 speed box plus all the benifits that go with a modern engine. There is no doubt that you can have extra power from a specially built Rover but at the end of the day its limitations are it's old design, displacement and p**s poor heads. The LS1 has more capacity, modern block, 6 bolt mains and excellent heads and it's similar size if not smaller then the Rover.
I'm not knocking the Chevvy V8 but I can't see anything about that engine that is particularly high-tech - perhaps I'm wrong? I'm not saying that the Rover V8 (in standard guise) is modern either, far from it.
I would say the main reason GM produced the GENIII was because it was a lot easier and cheaper than starting from scratch. Aren't most of the components compatible between Chevvy engines? In fact aren't a lot of the Chevvy parts compatible with Rover V8s?
In terms of technology there is nothing fitted to the Chevvy that can't be fitted to the Rover.
The Rover has always suffered from poor breathing due to it's head design and that's something Rover never bothered to address in mass production because the engines powered big saloons or off-roaders where torque was the priority and high revs weren't needed.
With the advent of the Wildcat heads (or Rover Group 'A' heads if you can find them!) and the ability to bore and stroke a Rover V8 to 6.0litres there is no reason why it can't be made to produce big reliable horsepower. Admittedly it will be more expensive but that's because there are fewer Rover V8s being tuned than Chevvy V8s.
However, the main point I was trying to make on this subject was that going for an engine transplant will be very costly, particularly as nobody else has done one (to my knowledge) and when you add all the hidden or forgotton costs to the purchase of the GenIII engine you soon see a project costing 20-30k USD plus an unusable car for months (potentially). It will also be a bastardised TVR and therefore less valuable (if that's possible in todays market!).
Of course as someone else has already pointed out if you are going to increase performance significantly you'll need to upgrade the chassis (suspension) and brakes and that's a cost that will have to be accepted with either engine.
I would say the main reason GM produced the GENIII was because it was a lot easier and cheaper than starting from scratch. Aren't most of the components compatible between Chevvy engines? In fact aren't a lot of the Chevvy parts compatible with Rover V8s?
In terms of technology there is nothing fitted to the Chevvy that can't be fitted to the Rover.
The Rover has always suffered from poor breathing due to it's head design and that's something Rover never bothered to address in mass production because the engines powered big saloons or off-roaders where torque was the priority and high revs weren't needed.
With the advent of the Wildcat heads (or Rover Group 'A' heads if you can find them!) and the ability to bore and stroke a Rover V8 to 6.0litres there is no reason why it can't be made to produce big reliable horsepower. Admittedly it will be more expensive but that's because there are fewer Rover V8s being tuned than Chevvy V8s.
However, the main point I was trying to make on this subject was that going for an engine transplant will be very costly, particularly as nobody else has done one (to my knowledge) and when you add all the hidden or forgotton costs to the purchase of the GenIII engine you soon see a project costing 20-30k USD plus an unusable car for months (potentially). It will also be a bastardised TVR and therefore less valuable (if that's possible in todays market!).
Of course as someone else has already pointed out if you are going to increase performance significantly you'll need to upgrade the chassis (suspension) and brakes and that's a cost that will have to be accepted with either engine.
Hi Jamie, the Gen 3 was built from a fresh sheet of paper and has nothing that interchanges with any other earlier Chevy apart from the main bearing shells. If you look at my site you will see some of it's specs, www.chevroletls1.com I read that it's supposed to produce more torque and bhp then the quad cam engine. Thats some achievement for a pushrod engine. It has all the features that we wished we could have in a Rover but which we never got in a stock engine. It stands to reason that with all the development costs that were pumped into it that it would be superior to early motors otherwise GM could have kept the early unit going or bought a Rover and stroked that. You can do a lot with a rover but it starts to get costly once you go for a custom 6.0 block and custom head castings. The 6.0 is a special block done by Ian and the internals are all his own as well. It's really only a Rover in spirit as just about everything has been changed. I accept those parts are very good and if you don't wish to change the engine for whatever reason then mods like that or forced induction may be the way to go. If you have freedom of choice then the LS1 has to be viable as all this stuff and more comes stock with the engine. As for the cost of a transplant that varies a lot. First you have to choose the engine spec that suits your needs. You could buy a crate engine(but its not quite complete)and then ship it here. You could build a long engine to your own spec which would save dismantling a crate engine for a cam change etc. You could buy something second hand with the factory ecu and install it without changes. The LS1 t56 is fairly expensive (only being a couple of years old) and the TVR t5 should suffice for a stock engine. The install looks fairly straightforward and could maybe use the stock exhaust system, gearbox and propshaft. I have loved using Rovers for many years but have a car which accepted the LS1 easily hence my changing brands. I've worked on a number of LS1's and am smitten with them. They're brilliant yet simple! Do you get them in NZ?
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