Oil drained, Oil Pump Priming

[Tegriffic]

I’m after any advice / experience anyone may have re this please. The engine is a 4.3 (pre serp). The car has had to stand unused for nearly 11 months.

Having started her up oil light remaining on and it was quickly obvious that the all the oil has drained back to the sump which is apparently something that’s common with the pre cat engines.

I know obviously need to prime the pump and I can see that there are two common approaches having packed the pump with vasoline which is either to spin the engine on the starter or remove the distributer and spin the pump with a drill.

I’m favouring the drill because I don’t really want to spin the engine with the starter if I think there’s no oil in the galleries but my understanding is that the drill approach can be a bit hit and miss and of course means likely knocking out the timing.

I’d be interested for any advice, or experiences anyone has had with either of these methods and it anyone has managed to fill the oil galleries by any other means before spinning the engine (I’ve seen various other approaches on non-Rover engines of pumping oil around by removing sensors and accessing the oil pathways.).

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[gruffalo]

I had this on me 400SE once, the fix was to take the oil pump cover off and pack with Vaseline, all good after

[scottliv]

I bought a tool off eBay for this. It is about 25cm long and goes in a drill. It has a slot drive at the bottom. It will turn easily at first then you will feel the pressure build up and can hear the oil circulating.

[DickyC]

gruffalo said:

I had this on me 400SE once, the fix was to take the oil pump cover off and pack with Vaseline, all good after

This. It works a treat. I did it on a Rover V8 after replacing the cam. Vaseline packed solid, no air pockets. Very satisfying.

[Tegriffic]

Thanks for the pointers. I was already favouring the pump pack approach. Looking at the Rover V8 manual it looks like the oil pump can be located either down by the filter or at the front of the engine at the front cover. Any idea which applies to a pre cat 4.3 ? thanks.

[Boosted LS1]

Packing the oil pump can still mean a glacial wait to make oll pressure. The drill method works well and lubes the shells before you crank the engine. It's a no brainer.

[Tegriffic]

Thanks. I did speak to a well known specialist of TVR's and they advised against the drill method saying doesn't always work on the older engines but didn't really elaborate and advised pre pack the pump. I'm not unmindful that the pack method doesn't deal with the pre lube before cranking / startup and am still considering that. Interestingly I've found some video showing a 4.6 (so no distributor) being pre lubed by pumping oil into what looked like the pressure sender port as far as I could tell and oil certainly appearing at the rockers quite effectively so I need to research that a bit more too.

thanks for the reponses.

[Belle427]

You could pack the pump and still spin it up on the drill, maybe overkill but better than a trashed engine.

[scottliv]

If you spin it with a drill you will 100% know when it starts to pump oil. Taking the front off the pump to pack it disturbs the gasket material so that may need to be replaced. Also I am dubious what happens to the petroleum jelly when it dissolves into the brand new oil.

[Sardonicus]

The Vaseline is in way to small amount to upset the balance of the oil package scottliv , cranking it over to achieve oil pressure is more a concern for cam and lifter damage whirring over and over on the starter than bearings or piston/rings spark plugs being removed of course , use drill method

[DickyC]

scottliv said:

If you spin it with a drill you will 100% know when it starts to pump oil. Taking the front off the pump to pack it disturbs the gasket material so that may need to be replaced. Also I am dubious what happens to the petroleum jelly when it dissolves into the brand new oil.

In my case, the 'pack with Vaseline' method wasn't a get-by used by me in desperation, it was the method described by Land Rover in the Range Rover maintenance manual.

That is, it was the way the engine manufacturer explained how to do the job.

Yes, the engine did sound a bit rattly the first time it fired, but this was Land Rover's preferred method. Only method. The engine went on for years afterwards with no problems.

[Sardonicus]

I also know of someone filling the pump gears with sticky cam lube and achieved desired result as expected , you just want to create a seal and thus vacuum to lift the oil up after all

[Griff43V8]

I returned early on my 4.3 Service to find this alarming lack of oil, followed by the vaseline packing solution. The engine had been mollycoddled and was low mileage and this still haunts me....just not knowing where to take the car for further servicing; forever worrying about the potential contaminant following the attempt...imagining just how long a mechanic would crank somebody else's engine with no oil circulating if I wasnt watching - the longer, the more potential future work....

My car has sat in the garage since next oil change due (mainly due to other factors) - About to re-commission, as an interim where I 100% want to avoid this issue at home, would simply draining and then instantly re-filling without removing filter be effective in solving priming issue, or would u need to fill and drain in such a way that level doesnt drop off bottom of stick? - Very aware that this isnt a full oil service, however I prefer not to drive on oil that is many years old (albeit undriven) and then take to the most recommended mechanic in Midlands!

Thinking about this, as a non mechanic, isnt the problem simply that the oil level falls below the pump pick up, if so, where is this located in the pre serp, pre cat 4.3 J Reg?

If simply a tube into lower part of sump, then (ignoring oil cost) isnt the best solution to leave whatever the calculated minimum would need to be, then fill / overfill with new / cheap / flushing oil, repeat drain down topping with good oil and accepting the favourable compromise?

If so, presumably removing the filter toward end of process wouldnt disturb pump start?

Then plugs out, EFI relay out and crank and wince?

Having witnessed this problem on my concours Griff with c 12k miles, it is something I shall never forget...

We really need to find the best solution to this major flaw

[wild rover]

You could consider spinning off the remote filter, with a vacuum pump/syringe pressure oil down through the pump. Oil pressure will fluctuate a bit while the filter fills but the oil light will be extinguished proving there is approximately more than 5psi.
I have also used the drill method it works equally well it just means you have to reset the timing for pease of mind.

[Tegriffic]

Thanks for all the replies. They have been dead useful. I checked the filter the last service used and it's a Coopers Flaam FT5916,which does seem to have the anti return fitting.

I think I'm going to pack the pump, change the oil and use 20W50, and then spin the pump with a drill. I figure that's the safest albeit a bit more work. I haven't set timing before but then, I haven't spun an oil pump before either !

Thanks.

[Belle427]

I would try the priming tool first in the drill, it will save you the job of packing the pump if it works.
Seems that a long lay up can cause issues but most people say the problems only occur if the system is drained and left for long periods like that so the pump loses its oil coating.

[Thebaggers]

I have never had any issues using the drill method, easy to make the tool out of a piece of bar and cut a slot in the end with a grinder, that's what I did. Remember to spin clockwise!

[MikeE]

Thebaggers said:

I have never had any issues using the drill method, easy to make the tool out of a piece of bar and cut a slot in the end with a grinder, that's what I did. Remember to spin clockwise!

I did the same, and watched the oil warning light on the dash go out to confirm the system was pressurising

[richard sails]

I just used the drill method with success.

You don't need a special tool, a 12mm six sided socket works fine, tape it onto the extension so you dont loose it. However you do need a good drill, I had three attempts with a high power battery drill to no effect. As a desperation measure I tried my biggest mains power drill and that worked in about twenty seconds.

When the pump finally picked up the oil, the drill was under load and slowed down considerably. Once pressure was achieved I ran it for about thirty seconds with the gauge showing 50psi.