K666GRF - 4.3 pre-cat Griff (obvs)
Discussion
Hi all.
Thought I’d continue the story from this thread as there are a few here that have fond memories of this car:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I sort of plan to update here as each job or chapter gets completed over the next few months.
Start easy as they say. The first one was one of my pet TVR hates. The velcro securing on the leading edge of the hood behind the door. People not lifting it when dropping the hood, I know it will peel undone but it also rips it from the body. And, although someone had fitted a new hood, they had araldited the velcro down. Far too rigid.
So an easy fix with Tiger Seal and a bit of masking off. Interestingly there were 2 rivet holes at the front end and I’d never seen that on previous cars. Makes sense, though, to secure the velcro at the point of most stress if not lifted for opening. Thus replaced as well.
Thought I’d continue the story from this thread as there are a few here that have fond memories of this car:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I sort of plan to update here as each job or chapter gets completed over the next few months.
Start easy as they say. The first one was one of my pet TVR hates. The velcro securing on the leading edge of the hood behind the door. People not lifting it when dropping the hood, I know it will peel undone but it also rips it from the body. And, although someone had fitted a new hood, they had araldited the velcro down. Far too rigid.
So an easy fix with Tiger Seal and a bit of masking off. Interestingly there were 2 rivet holes at the front end and I’d never seen that on previous cars. Makes sense, though, to secure the velcro at the point of most stress if not lifted for opening. Thus replaced as well.
The next little item was a slight blow on one of the manifolds. You could see that they had been welded in the past and looking at the history, both had been replaced in 2001.
We also know the oem ones are pretty poor quality but I’d hoped to remove, clean and reweld using a chap near me in Somerset. More of him later.
Fortunately I have a generous car nut neighbour (with everything from Voisin-Avion to Maserati QP) whose lift I can occasionally borrow. 2 hrs later and both manifolds off and may as well remove the full pipe work underneath.
Mmmmmmh. Like an old house etc. Once you get it apart, you wonder how it stayed up. One may have been repairable but the front exhaust port bend was kinked on the inside diameter, from poor initial manufacture, thus would always be a weak point.
The other manifold was cracked down one pipe from a previous weld, which has created a stress point allowing propagation of the crack. Weld it too hard vs mild steel so one always gives.
And the main section has several cracks not visible from the underside and significant corrosion to the cheap welded pipe.
Anyhow, took it all to the expert. He builds one off stainless systems for any project as well as roll cages etc. Possibly salvageable in places but significant work to repair to a pretty poor quality system in the first place. But he had a plan. ……..
We also know the oem ones are pretty poor quality but I’d hoped to remove, clean and reweld using a chap near me in Somerset. More of him later.
Fortunately I have a generous car nut neighbour (with everything from Voisin-Avion to Maserati QP) whose lift I can occasionally borrow. 2 hrs later and both manifolds off and may as well remove the full pipe work underneath.
Mmmmmmh. Like an old house etc. Once you get it apart, you wonder how it stayed up. One may have been repairable but the front exhaust port bend was kinked on the inside diameter, from poor initial manufacture, thus would always be a weak point.
The other manifold was cracked down one pipe from a previous weld, which has created a stress point allowing propagation of the crack. Weld it too hard vs mild steel so one always gives.
And the main section has several cracks not visible from the underside and significant corrosion to the cheap welded pipe.
Anyhow, took it all to the expert. He builds one off stainless systems for any project as well as roll cages etc. Possibly salvageable in places but significant work to repair to a pretty poor quality system in the first place. But he had a plan. ……..
ric p said:
The next little item was a slight blow on one of the manifolds. You could see that they had been welded in the past and looking at the history, both had been replaced in 2001.
We also know the oem ones are pretty poor quality but I’d hoped to remove, clean and reweld using a chap near me in Somerset. More of him later.
Fortunately I have a generous car nut neighbour (with everything from Voisin-Avion to Maserati QP) whose lift I can occasionally borrow. 2 hrs later and both manifolds off and may as well remove the full pipe work underneath.
Mmmmmmh. Like an old house etc. Once you get it apart, you wonder how it stayed up. One may have been repairable but the front exhaust port bend was kinked on the inside diameter, from poor initial manufacture, thus would always be a weak point.
The other manifold was cracked down one pipe from a previous weld, which has created a stress point allowing propagation of the crack. Weld it too hard vs mild steel so one always gives.
And the main section has several cracks not visible from the underside and significant corrosion to the cheap welded pipe.
Anyhow, took it all to the expert. He builds one off stainless systems for any project as well as roll cages etc. Possibly salvageable in places but significant work to repair to a pretty poor quality system in the first place. But he had a plan. ……..
The 2001 expense was me, prior to new manifolds fitted by TMS the car sounded like a tractor!We also know the oem ones are pretty poor quality but I’d hoped to remove, clean and reweld using a chap near me in Somerset. More of him later.
Fortunately I have a generous car nut neighbour (with everything from Voisin-Avion to Maserati QP) whose lift I can occasionally borrow. 2 hrs later and both manifolds off and may as well remove the full pipe work underneath.
Mmmmmmh. Like an old house etc. Once you get it apart, you wonder how it stayed up. One may have been repairable but the front exhaust port bend was kinked on the inside diameter, from poor initial manufacture, thus would always be a weak point.
The other manifold was cracked down one pipe from a previous weld, which has created a stress point allowing propagation of the crack. Weld it too hard vs mild steel so one always gives.
And the main section has several cracks not visible from the underside and significant corrosion to the cheap welded pipe.
Anyhow, took it all to the expert. He builds one off stainless systems for any project as well as roll cages etc. Possibly salvageable in places but significant work to repair to a pretty poor quality system in the first place. But he had a plan. ……..
The os one had definitely been off since, new bolts at the manifold and flange. However ns could have been on a good while, 4 of 8 flange bolts just snapped when shown a socket and bar. Just made it quicker to undo!
Anyway the quick weld fix was off and a new solution was needed but also had to get a non-running car 500yds back to my garage as it would have been a bit cheeky to leave it on my friend’s pampas for a couple of months.
Can’t drive, can’t tow due to the L77 g/box and its non lubrication if the input shaft is not rotating. So for a pack of hobnobs and some beers a friend of a friend in the village had a car trailer that my Legacy engined VW T25 could pull
The benefits of the village life, there is always someone local, who has the bit you need for a barter.
Anyway the quick weld fix was off and a new solution was needed but also had to get a non-running car 500yds back to my garage as it would have been a bit cheeky to leave it on my friend’s pampas for a couple of months.
Can’t drive, can’t tow due to the L77 g/box and its non lubrication if the input shaft is not rotating. So for a pack of hobnobs and some beers a friend of a friend in the village had a car trailer that my Legacy engined VW T25 could pull
The benefits of the village life, there is always someone local, who has the bit you need for a barter.
Both my Griff 500 and a previously owned Chimaera had the Velcro side sections pop-rivetted on. Like you, it was a focus point for me. I'm astonished at the thousands spent on cars that have the Velcro at the sides flapping with bits of visible glue hanging off. 
Great to see a thread about some actual engineering.
Great to see a thread about some actual engineering.
I shall follow your thread with interest as I will no doubt have some similar jobs need doing on my 4.3.
The only diy job I've completed so far is sticking down that same bit of velcro and reconnecting an air vent that had come away from its housing. On the list is fitting a new side repeater lamp as holder has perished and rubber seal missing. Think it's a Fiat Uno part; just need to work out how to access it and whether I need the wiring or just the lamp.
Couple of minor issues arisen in the 400 miles since purchase late June. 1. Oil pressure warning lamp only comes on with ignition on occasion, so I guess a loose connection. 2. Idling too fast, which is likely a dirty or knackered stepper motor. Both covered by warranty and booked in with local TVR garage for next month.
Is your manifold not covered by the dealers warranty or was it a known fault that you negotiated into the purchase price?
Hope you don't mind me chipping in on your progress report.
The only diy job I've completed so far is sticking down that same bit of velcro and reconnecting an air vent that had come away from its housing. On the list is fitting a new side repeater lamp as holder has perished and rubber seal missing. Think it's a Fiat Uno part; just need to work out how to access it and whether I need the wiring or just the lamp.
Couple of minor issues arisen in the 400 miles since purchase late June. 1. Oil pressure warning lamp only comes on with ignition on occasion, so I guess a loose connection. 2. Idling too fast, which is likely a dirty or knackered stepper motor. Both covered by warranty and booked in with local TVR garage for next month.
Is your manifold not covered by the dealers warranty or was it a known fault that you negotiated into the purchase price?
Hope you don't mind me chipping in on your progress report.
SFTWend said:
I shall follow your thread with interest as I will no doubt have some similar jobs need doing on my 4.3.
The only diy job I've completed so far is sticking down that same bit of velcro and reconnecting an air vent that had come away from its housing. On the list is fitting a new side repeater lamp as holder has perished and rubber seal missing. Think it's a Fiat Uno part; just need to work out how to access it and whether I need the wiring or just the lamp.
Couple of minor issues arisen in the 400 miles since purchase late June. 1. Oil pressure warning lamp only comes on with ignition on occasion, so I guess a loose connection. 2. Idling too fast, which is likely a dirty or knackered stepper motor. Both covered by warranty and booked in with local TVR garage for next month.
Is your manifold not covered by the dealers warranty or was it a known fault that you negotiated into the purchase price?
Hope you don't mind me chipping in on your progress report.
Repeater lamps are from Fiat Panda Hatchback. These fit nicely: https://www.autopartspro.co.uk/prasco-7455661The only diy job I've completed so far is sticking down that same bit of velcro and reconnecting an air vent that had come away from its housing. On the list is fitting a new side repeater lamp as holder has perished and rubber seal missing. Think it's a Fiat Uno part; just need to work out how to access it and whether I need the wiring or just the lamp.
Couple of minor issues arisen in the 400 miles since purchase late June. 1. Oil pressure warning lamp only comes on with ignition on occasion, so I guess a loose connection. 2. Idling too fast, which is likely a dirty or knackered stepper motor. Both covered by warranty and booked in with local TVR garage for next month.
Is your manifold not covered by the dealers warranty or was it a known fault that you negotiated into the purchase price?
Hope you don't mind me chipping in on your progress report.
Nice pre-cat OP, hope it all goes well with the manifold work.
Moose - that is a lovely snakes' wedding! Agree, messing around with old erroded mild steel would just mean re-doing. On examination, they were worse that first thought.
SFTW - I prefer to see and buy cars un-prepped and not too fussed whether from a private sale or a dealer. I got a significant discount that I was happy with and hopefully the vendor got what he wanted, with the dealer making a bit for being helpful. The reason is that firstly I enjoy the fixing (although it may not sound like it at the time!) and get satifaction from the completion as well as meeting loads of fascinating skilled traded individuals. Secondly I believe I get a better product ultimately as it is my vehicle, not margin being erroded from the sale price, which may tempt some to cut the odd corner (unbelievable, I know). And finally I know the quality of the work done and the correct parts / processes used, which may be a bit unkind to some very trustworthy outfits, I appreciate.
I am also looking for very specific cars so they often come from a distance away. This also further muddies the water about warranty work, who and where it should be done.
Most of my cars have taken this route, eg both Ferrari's, the 4200 and v8s most recently, with a fighting fund factored in. But you do need to want to do the research and work to make it cost effective. If not, pay a trustworthy dealer!
Anyway back to the exhaust, Clive has an excellent reputation and his products are well thought of by the TVRS SW guys. Fits properly but he does not to a flanged pre-cat item and no complete system. And you pay good money for a good product, All the other suppliers use the JP manufactured product. I spoke to them direct and could get a small discount direct (incidently they did my F355 manifolds when the Ferrari ones were a known poor and expensive product, excellent work) However reviews on fitting were mixed. Stainless is very stiff and any requirement to ratchet together to get to fit introduces stress into the system, which is not desirable either at manifold end or further down the pipework.
Thus a third route is being pursued, a bespoke whole system with the car available to allow adjustment and perfect fit. We plan a similar to oem but not identical set up. No flanges as this may make the whole system a bit 'stiff' Probably a v clamp type setup to allow a bit of movement between headders and pipework, but better than the TVR cat v clamps!
I want no more noise but a cripser sound, which should be achieved by stainless. We're also going to look at pipework diameter, whether the standard diameter is necessary or if a slight reduction can be made to create a bit more room. More to follow. Lead time a couple of months so no real difference than anyone else and allows me a few other jobs.
Starting with these, again a known fault at purchase, as I now have a bit more working space!
SFTW - I prefer to see and buy cars un-prepped and not too fussed whether from a private sale or a dealer. I got a significant discount that I was happy with and hopefully the vendor got what he wanted, with the dealer making a bit for being helpful. The reason is that firstly I enjoy the fixing (although it may not sound like it at the time!) and get satifaction from the completion as well as meeting loads of fascinating skilled traded individuals. Secondly I believe I get a better product ultimately as it is my vehicle, not margin being erroded from the sale price, which may tempt some to cut the odd corner (unbelievable, I know). And finally I know the quality of the work done and the correct parts / processes used, which may be a bit unkind to some very trustworthy outfits, I appreciate.
I am also looking for very specific cars so they often come from a distance away. This also further muddies the water about warranty work, who and where it should be done.
Most of my cars have taken this route, eg both Ferrari's, the 4200 and v8s most recently, with a fighting fund factored in. But you do need to want to do the research and work to make it cost effective. If not, pay a trustworthy dealer!
Anyway back to the exhaust, Clive has an excellent reputation and his products are well thought of by the TVRS SW guys. Fits properly but he does not to a flanged pre-cat item and no complete system. And you pay good money for a good product, All the other suppliers use the JP manufactured product. I spoke to them direct and could get a small discount direct (incidently they did my F355 manifolds when the Ferrari ones were a known poor and expensive product, excellent work) However reviews on fitting were mixed. Stainless is very stiff and any requirement to ratchet together to get to fit introduces stress into the system, which is not desirable either at manifold end or further down the pipework.
Thus a third route is being pursued, a bespoke whole system with the car available to allow adjustment and perfect fit. We plan a similar to oem but not identical set up. No flanges as this may make the whole system a bit 'stiff' Probably a v clamp type setup to allow a bit of movement between headders and pipework, but better than the TVR cat v clamps!
I want no more noise but a cripser sound, which should be achieved by stainless. We're also going to look at pipework diameter, whether the standard diameter is necessary or if a slight reduction can be made to create a bit more room. More to follow. Lead time a couple of months so no real difference than anyone else and allows me a few other jobs.
Starting with these, again a known fault at purchase, as I now have a bit more working space!
davep said:
Repeater lamps are from Fiat Panda Hatchback. These fit nicely: https://www.autopartspro.co.uk/prasco-7455661
Nice pre-cat OP, hope it all goes well with the manifold work.
Thank you. Half the price of the ones I've seen on the bay.Nice pre-cat OP, hope it all goes well with the manifold work.
Ri c your correct my manifolds don't have the flange fittings as they individually bolt to y piece regarding connection to system I used sleeve for easier removal, personally I think stainless is the way to go for longevity appearances mine is no louder than before, engine mounts I used Racetech, or Tvr powers, Racing green all good likewise I will follow your posts on progress
Next up, an easy fix that I know will end up as man vs TVR
Unfortunately as we are without manifold or exhaust, nipping down to my friend’s ramps was not an option. So drive and axle stands, too old for this but no option. From reading up, removing the rubber mounts and the mounting plate is the best option, then separating them on the bench.
So all bolts turn easily, win. But the front one to the block is a pig for access. Too narrow for a spanner and blocked for a socket and bar or ratchet. So made a little square to hex adapter for a 1/2” spanner for the back of the socket.
Worried about the known problem of sump to block fit, I decided to use an oak block onto the edge of the sump to hopefully prevent any bending of the sump itself. This took the weight nicely to allo removal of all 5 bolts. And the mount just dropped to the drive.
(I did belt and braces with a block under the sump just in case of failure!)
Unfortunately as we are without manifold or exhaust, nipping down to my friend’s ramps was not an option. So drive and axle stands, too old for this but no option. From reading up, removing the rubber mounts and the mounting plate is the best option, then separating them on the bench.
So all bolts turn easily, win. But the front one to the block is a pig for access. Too narrow for a spanner and blocked for a socket and bar or ratchet. So made a little square to hex adapter for a 1/2” spanner for the back of the socket.
Worried about the known problem of sump to block fit, I decided to use an oak block onto the edge of the sump to hopefully prevent any bending of the sump itself. This took the weight nicely to allo removal of all 5 bolts. And the mount just dropped to the drive.
(I did belt and braces with a block under the sump just in case of failure!)
Now all apart, I had bodger’s guilt about the flaking paint. So head against heart, a quick coat of paint to make them look respectable.
So now a stop for lunch whilst it dries. I won’t have the patience so there will be fingerprints in the almost dry paint goes back together.
So that took 2 1/2 hours but, to be fair, 1 hour was spent with a neighbour, who popped over to add moral support. He had a college mate, who had worked for TVR in the late 80s into 90s as a chassis engineer before off to greater things. He work for Ford as a development engineer. So we chatted about how it was better in the old days…………
So now a stop for lunch whilst it dries. I won’t have the patience so there will be fingerprints in the almost dry paint goes back together.
So that took 2 1/2 hours but, to be fair, 1 hour was spent with a neighbour, who popped over to add moral support. He had a college mate, who had worked for TVR in the late 80s into 90s as a chassis engineer before off to greater things. He work for Ford as a development engineer. So we chatted about how it was better in the old days…………
The Griff departs the n a month (hopefully) for its custom manifolds and exhaust fitting. Like a bespoke Saville Row suit, I hope.
Thus one last job, which I had sort of been avoiding as I’d never done it before. When the old manifolds came off, 3 of the pipes where a bit white, suggesting lean running. I should have taken a photo before I sent them off as a template to my stainless chap. However pulling some plugs out also showed some of the cylinders running lean, with obvious problems if not addressed. So chatting with him and TVRS SW, the place to start is properly cleaning the injectors.
I doubt they have been out of the engine since build and with long periods of inactivity, they are probably due an overhaul. Ultrasonic cleaning by TVRS SW is a very reasonable £100 but I need to do the spanner work. So in we dive.
Tbh it was not too painful. All came apart easily just hard work bent over the engine bay for an old giffer.
Although I was terrified of losing something down one of the trumpets. Although the car hadn’t run for 6 weeks so there was no pressure in the fuel rail, there was plenty to drain out. However the petrol rag can then be used to clean 3 decades of dribbled oil etc from the bits you can’t get to normally. The injectors popped out easily so not sure if I should replace the o rings before they go back in. I’ll take that under advice.
Anyway a wait of a week or two for the cleaning so my memory won't last that long. So from bitter experience, a chronology of disassembly to give a tick sheet for reassembly. That way I stand an evens chance of it starting and running on one the exhaust is done.
Thus one last job, which I had sort of been avoiding as I’d never done it before. When the old manifolds came off, 3 of the pipes where a bit white, suggesting lean running. I should have taken a photo before I sent them off as a template to my stainless chap. However pulling some plugs out also showed some of the cylinders running lean, with obvious problems if not addressed. So chatting with him and TVRS SW, the place to start is properly cleaning the injectors.
I doubt they have been out of the engine since build and with long periods of inactivity, they are probably due an overhaul. Ultrasonic cleaning by TVRS SW is a very reasonable £100 but I need to do the spanner work. So in we dive.
Tbh it was not too painful. All came apart easily just hard work bent over the engine bay for an old giffer.
Although I was terrified of losing something down one of the trumpets. Although the car hadn’t run for 6 weeks so there was no pressure in the fuel rail, there was plenty to drain out. However the petrol rag can then be used to clean 3 decades of dribbled oil etc from the bits you can’t get to normally. The injectors popped out easily so not sure if I should replace the o rings before they go back in. I’ll take that under advice.
Anyway a wait of a week or two for the cleaning so my memory won't last that long. So from bitter experience, a chronology of disassembly to give a tick sheet for reassembly. That way I stand an evens chance of it starting and running on one the exhaust is done.
For those who wondered why, Clive Ford doesn't do complete exhaust systems because he lives on the Isle of Wight, home to the world's most expensive (per mile of water) ferries in the world. As the complete systems are around 4 metres long the carriage charges are prohibitive.
For those who don't believe the above statement, I tried to book a return ferry trip, 5 miles each way, for my car and caravan last month from Lymington to Yarmouth. It worked out at £385, or £38.50 per mile. Needless to say I found a better deal after I had pulled myself up off the floor.
For those who don't believe the above statement, I tried to book a return ferry trip, 5 miles each way, for my car and caravan last month from Lymington to Yarmouth. It worked out at £385, or £38.50 per mile. Needless to say I found a better deal after I had pulled myself up off the floor.
Zen or - absolutely correct. Injectors cleaned and tested. 6 were good and 2 fair. Now all consistent. Hopefully that explains the lean running on a couple of cylinders. So new filters and O rings fitted and greased ready to go straight back in.
Reassembly twice a quick as taking apart and advised to use this stuff to seal manifold and plenum faces:
Just paint on and mate. It is oil and fuel solvent so if any excess gets into the system it won’t block filters and oil pathways unlike silicone.
Couple of the trumpets were loose and sitting proud so cleaned and reseated correctly. So much stuff you find when you start taking things apart that no one would ever have know about otherwise. Hopefully all these little corrections will add up. Marginal gains etc.
Pressure tested the fuel statement as best I could as can’t run it as no exhaust system. However with 6+ cycles with the fuel pump and ignition all dry. We’ll just need to be careful in a few weeks once the exhaust system is made and fitted.
Final picture of nice clean injectors for any injector nerds. Actually not a too complex job to remove and refit despite my initial concerns.
Reassembly twice a quick as taking apart and advised to use this stuff to seal manifold and plenum faces:
Just paint on and mate. It is oil and fuel solvent so if any excess gets into the system it won’t block filters and oil pathways unlike silicone.
Couple of the trumpets were loose and sitting proud so cleaned and reseated correctly. So much stuff you find when you start taking things apart that no one would ever have know about otherwise. Hopefully all these little corrections will add up. Marginal gains etc.
Pressure tested the fuel statement as best I could as can’t run it as no exhaust system. However with 6+ cycles with the fuel pump and ignition all dry. We’ll just need to be careful in a few weeks once the exhaust system is made and fitted.
Final picture of nice clean injectors for any injector nerds. Actually not a too complex job to remove and refit despite my initial concerns.
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