Early Griffith...?

Early Griffith...?

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Discussion

Thom

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

280 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
quotequote all
Has anybody ever heard of a Griffith with a Grantura body?
Could it possible that such a car would have been one of the early Griffith?

Thanks!

>>> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 17th September 19:54

Scruff400

3,757 posts

268 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
quotequote all
Would that be the origional Griffith, Thom?

Thom

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

280 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
quotequote all
No. The car I talk about is in France.

>> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 17th September 20:02

Scruff400

3,757 posts

268 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
quotequote all
I know that the Grantura developed into the griffith

http://homepages.enterprise.net/roadrunner/tvr3.shtml or are we talking later. I'll do some digging tonight.

>> Edited by Scruff400 on Tuesday 17th September 20:03

Thom

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

280 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
quotequote all
Thanks.
Update: sorry, the car I talk about seems to be fitted with a Tuscan body.
The guy who owns it is a friend of my uncle.
To tell you the truth my uncle said it was "a Griffith with Tuscan-style rear lights"
If that can help!

>> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 17th September 20:08

Scruff400

3,757 posts

268 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
quotequote all
That might have been the prototype Speed six, when it was planned to put the Speed Six engine into the griff - Griff body, slightly revamped, different lights front and back - slightly angrier design.
There's a picture in Steve Heaths Book.

Thom

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

280 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
quotequote all
No, I am talking about a car from the sixties...

hansgerd

1,274 posts

291 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
quotequote all
That must be quite an early car in the picture, it's still with the original round Grantura back. The later Griffiths have the "ban the bomb" lights (as the Lotus Cortina does). I have the early book at home and will look it up at the weekend. I remember a picture of one with the round Grantura back in it. The picture was taken back in the UK, so after the transplant in the US.

Sorry, I've been drinking... no help...

>> Edited by hansgerd on Tuesday 17th September 21:09

Thom

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

280 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
quotequote all
Thanks!
Do you think it would be possible to get the chassis number?

>> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 17th September 21:11

Terminator

2,421 posts

291 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
Soon after Martin Lilley took over TVR in 1967, he renamed the Grantura Mk1V 1800S the 'Vixen S1' and the Griffith was renamed 'Tuscan'. The early Tuscans were identical to Griffith 400s (except for the name of course) and later Tuscans, both V6 and V8, had the Vixen S2 & S3 bodies with the Cortina Mk2 rear lamps. Some early Griffiths had later bits fitted, which can lead to confusion.

The car in France may be a Griffith, a Tuscan or even a Vixen conversion. The chassis number should reveal all...



Thom

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

280 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
quote:
The chassis number should reveal all...

That's exactly why I asked; do you really think the chassis number could be the ultimate proof of what this car really is?
That said I don't see where the interest of putting a false chassis number on such a car lies...

jmorgan

36,010 posts

291 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
quote:

quote:
The chassis number should reveal all...

That's exactly why I asked; do you really think the chassis number could be the ultimate proof of what this car really is?
That said I don't see where the interest of putting a false chassis number on such a car lies...


Money?

hansgerd

1,274 posts

291 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
All early Griffiths had a Grantura body. It was Jack Griffith in the US who had the idea to mate a Ford V8 into his Grantura. With a little tweaking here and there it fitted inside. He then approached the company with the idea and they said "yep, great idea". So, the Griffith was born. Or am I missing some point here ?

>> Edited by hansgerd on Wednesday 18th September 20:15

Thom

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

280 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
quote:
Money?

Well, the person who is going to spend a lot for that one would have had some major life event with it.
I guess only pure "road standard classic TVR" nuts would be interested.

hansgerd

1,274 posts

291 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
So what car is it ? Any pictures available ? Is it race prepared ? Is it maybe even VdeV's yellow one ? Come on Thom, send a picture.

>> Edited by hansgerd on Wednesday 18th September 20:48

Thom

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

280 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
Sadly, no.
I just happened to come across the way of my uncle in our garage who told me a friend of him bought that. I haven't even seen it!
Anyway I will try to dig more of it.

>> Edited by Thom on Wednesday 18th September 20:55

f402mlr

1,469 posts

277 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
Thom, after the '65 bankrupcy and the Lilley take over the cars were based on the original '65 cars with modifications as forced by sometimes reluctant suppliers, TVR also had had financial difficulties in 59-63.

As Colin says the Grantura III was the basis for the Griffith, and the Tuscan and Vixen shared a history. Tuscan's were available in the original short wheel base, long wheel base - compare with the Vixen S2, and a wide bodied (MAL) version. Later the Tuscan was also available with the Ford V6 engine and was the basis for the 3000M we know and love.
Some people have put a 289 or 302 in to a standard Grantura or Vixen, just to make it go that wee bit faster, a few 3000S have 302 V8 engines! The problem comes when one sells. UK Classic And Sports Car price guide for August 2002; Grantura £3750, Griffith £15000.
So one could make money by adding a 289 from a cheap Mustang to a Grantura. However top prices are for cars with History (esp Race history) and FIA papers so you can go european historic racing, (and win). Yes Thom there have been a few cases of people trying to pass off cars as "real griffiths" etc.

Anyway I must declare an interest, I have a '67 LWB Tuscan in need of restoration. My father has had it 20 years and it is complete with history (old style log books and bills for early 70's modifications) and it is pictured in Filby in its modified form, mine is one of the first LWB cars and has the square rear lights, and flared wheel arches!


[url]www.steve-p.com/tvr/books/book07.html[/url]
or if you're feeling rich
[url]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1562797175[/url]
also
[url]http://members.cts.com/sd/j/jnlrauh/club.html[/url]

Tipler says 310 Griffiths, 28 Tuscans, 24 LWB/SE Tuscans and 21 Wide Bodied, and 101 V6 Tuscans, but I understand few records exist before the Lilley's took over and it's TVR so +/- a few!

Cheers
David

>> Edited by f402mlr on Wednesday 18th September 22:35

kevinsmeaton

7 posts

281 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
There were quite a number of Griffith's produced in the 60's , with 289 Ford engines . These are very popular with historic racers and usually very competitive . Most were sent to the USA , a couple came to Australia , a number were also produced and sold in UK . The USA cars generally had a badge on bonnet which said " Griffith " . The others were badged TVR . DAVID GERALD TVR currently has one for sale and could probably help identify the car if given information about it .

Thom

Original Poster:

2,745 posts

280 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
quote:
DAVID GERALD TVR could probably help identify the car if given information about it.

Indeed, but I need to gather information on the car deep enough before asking an established specialist.

Anyway, thank you all for your answers so far

>> Edited by Thom on Wednesday 18th September 21:49

Terminator

2,421 posts

291 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
The problem with many Griffiths and Tuscans is that they occasionally aren't what they appear to be. There have been court cases on both sides of the Atlantic involving 'air cars'. I once sold a Vixen S1 to an American based here in the USAF and a few years later it re-appeared a Griffith, complete with a Griffith chassis number, taken from a car that was written-off in the late sixties.

During my editorship of 'Sprint', TVR gave me all the original build records for cars built since Martin Lilley took over and based on these, I did an article for the magazine. The records were then passed to Mervyn Larner, the TVRCC Model registrar. Last year, while in the USA, I met with Joe Rauh, the Griffith Club President, and I understand that he and Mervyn have compared notes on a few cars.

Anyone interested in the original Griffiths can find more information here


This is a pic of the original New York Motor Show Griffith, Jack was proud of his Scottish ancestry!