Tamora Engine Options - Let's have some

[JonGwynne]

I had a test drive in a TVR Tamora the other day and I found myself thinking that having the option of the 4.0 liter Speed Six would be a Very Good Thing. What do you think?

Not that the 3.6 is a bad engine, it just hasn't got quite as much low-down torque as someone out to really have some fun on a dry road might enjoy having. I hate to say it but from a standing start on dry tarmac, my Jaguar XJR feels more brisk - even though it will give up almost a second to the Tamora from 0-60.

TVR famously looks down their nose on electronic nannying (and I agree with them) devices like traction-control and ABS. So, the argument against offering the 4.0 as an option can't be that the driver couldn't be expected to handle the extra power. Every TVR driver is expected to be aware of their car's capabilities and limits.

The car itself is based on the Tuscan chassis which can be had with the 4.0 engine, so the argument can't be that the car itself won't take the extra power.

Please, please, TVR... Please consider offering the 4.0 liter engine as an option. I love the Speed Six engine but I can't sit comfortably in a Tuscan. I'm 5'11" (i.e. not unusually tall or long-legged) and if I recline the seat far enough that my head doesn't scrape the roof, I'm knocking it on the roll-bar. If I move the seat far enough forward that I'm not banging my head on anything, my knees are scraping the bottom of of that fabulous aluminium dash panel.

I trust a few people here might agree with me on this one. How many prospective Tamora buyers would consider the 4.0 liter if it were an option? How many people who bought the 3.6 would have bought the 4.0 if it had been available.

I heard that TVR has been swayed by customer requests before when it comes to engine options. Perhaps they will again. I mean, it isn't like they don't build each car by hand anyway. ;->

Or maybe I should just go find a nice 5.0 liter Griffith or Chimera...

[Ston]

Someone crowbar an AJP8 in there and that would be a seriouse piece of kit.

[bad boy]

i thought i heard the 3.6 is a better engine than the 4.0, more reliable?

[frostie]

If you mean the 4.0 in the Tuscan S then yes. In fact I asked when I ordered mine but PW refused. I know others have asked also so it shouldn't take too long before they bow to customer pressure.

As for the standard 4.0 this is no longer available in the Tuscan, now the 3.6 also and to be honest there is not a huge amount of difference.

Interested in your problems driving a Tuscan, I'm 6'1 and had no issues during a test drive.

Mark

[gb61390]

quote:liter

I assume you're in the USA Jon? In which case you won't be getting either in the forseeable future.

Seriously though, as Frostie says, the only 4.0 litre engine available now in the 'S' which would be quite a few thousand extra as it comes with a host of other modifications to the car.

Cheers.... Andrew

[nubbin]

I reckon it would probably be a waste of money - in everday road conditions in the U. K., I've found the Tamora to be as fast as I would want to go. That's not because I'm a wimp, it's just that it is so fast, and so relatively inconspicous (compare to a Tuscan od Cerbie), that it scares other road users to death. they can look in their mirror, and see clear road behind, then look again and you're right behind them, as if you dropped onto the road from above. That cares people and they then do silly things.

I also get the impression that the 3.6 is a better engine in terms of reliability. Having covered 5000 miles in my Tamora, I don't think it needs extra grunt! More noise perhaps, but it really is fast enough out there in the real world.

[dannylt]

Lots of the tuscan 4.0 engines made 5000 miles before going pop - only time and a decent 20000 miles will tell!

[tuscansix]

The whole idea of giving the Tamora the 3.6 engine was (as far as all the reports go)to ensure that the car had less torque to make it easier to drive. So that it would fit in with its role as the most driveable TVR yet.
Then again, considering Christof's comments about a new TVR to appear at the Motorshow, a new 4ltr Tamora S could be on its way...

[MikeyT]

Shame you mistimed your inquiry, Flasher was selling his Tamora last week and that's got a 4.0 engine

[JonGwynne]

quote:
If you mean the 4.0 in the Tuscan S then yes. In fact I asked when I ordered mine but PW refused. I know others have asked also so it shouldn't take too long before they bow to customer pressure.

As for the standard 4.0 this is no longer available in the Tuscan, now the 3.6 also and to be honest there is not a huge amount of difference.

Interested in your problems driving a Tuscan, I'm 6'1 and had no issues during a test drive.

Mark

Sorry, I didn't realize they were two different engines. I thought there was just the 350bhp 3.6L engine as in the Tamora and Tuscan and the 390bhp 4.0L only available in the Tuscan. I was also under the impression that the only real significance of the "S" designation of the Tuscan S was to indicate the presence of the 4.0L engine.

[JonGwynne]

quote:
I reckon it would probably be a waste of money - in everday road conditions in the U. K., I've found the Tamora to be as fast as I would want to go. That's not because I'm a wimp, it's just that it is so fast, and so relatively inconspicous (compare to a Tuscan od Cerbie), that it scares other road users to death. they can look in their mirror, and see clear road behind, then look again and you're right behind them, as if you dropped onto the road from above. That cares people and they then do silly things.

I also get the impression that the 3.6 is a better engine in terms of reliability. Having covered 5000 miles in my Tamora, I don't think it needs extra grunt! More noise perhaps, but it really is fast enough out there in the real world.

Maybe I just drive differently. I've lived in the UK for almost a year now and when the roads are dry, I find that they'll offer excellent traction and there's nothing I love more than being able to put my foot down and have it be a significant event. I've got a Jaguar XJR (I6, not V8) right now and I love switching off the traction control and mashing the pedal when the conditions are right. Maybe I'm just used to the instant low-down grunt from the supercharger in the Jag.

The Tamora is very fast when you're already moving - it is a great car to pass someone in but it just doesn't feel that it is as fast as it could be off the line barring some vulgar display of wheelspin and I've never been a "rev-it-up-and-dump-the-clutch" guy.

I understand they kept the torque down at least in part because of the abrupt directional changes suffered by people in Griffith 500s but I think we'd find that most (if not all) of those were the result of either poor driving or poor judgement rather than the car itself.

To deliberately limit the options for Tamora buyers seems odd for a company that stubbornly believes that traction-control and ABS are a burden to good drivers rather than a benefit.

Personally, I suspect there must be other issues - either physical ones like the 4.0L engine just won't fit properly in the Tamora (in which case, shame on whoever designed the car - they should have known better) or TVR are trying to quietly discourage sales of the 4.0L engine for reasons best known to them.

The price difference is already pretty major - isn't the difference between the 3.6 and 4.0 versions of the Tuscan something like £8,000? The engine itself can't be that much more money in terms of either the cost of components or the cost of assembly.

[JonGwynne]

quote:

quote:liter

I assume you're in the USA Jon? In which case you won't be getting either in the forseeable future.

Seriously though, as Frostie says, the only 4.0 litre engine available now in the 'S' which would be quite a few thousand extra as it comes with a host of other modifications to the car.

Cheers.... Andrew

Why would you assume I live in the USA? Just because I spell "liter" the way it sounds and I don't use extra letters in words like "analog" or "aluminum" ;->

Maybe I'm just an eccentric Englishman... They do exist, you know...


Seriously... I'm an American by birth but I live in the UK - land of seriously cool cars.

>> Edited by JonGwynne on Monday 22 July 16:37

[gb61390]

Hi Jon, no offence meant, it just seemed strange to see litre written as 'liter'!

I'm amazed you found the Tamora slow off the mark! 4.2 seconds to 60mph will leave your XJR well behind!

Why are you so keen on engine options anyway? When the car's this fast and handles this well what more do you want?

Cheers..... Andrew

[nubbin]

I can assure you, John, that there is no need for more low range torque! It gets off the lights pretty quickly, and a feeling of huge torque is not necessarily the same as, nor translated into, rapid acceleration. TVR spent a lot of development time getting the engine's torque curve the way it is, as part of a deliberate and integrated package to make the huge power of the engine more user-friendly. It goes like sh1t off a shovel, from 0-175+. Driving it in third gear is an experience not to be missed - the engine, 3rd. gear, and overtaking on English roads, are a partnership made in heaven, and the torque is fantastically exploitable. It's a great engine, one of the best ever straight sixes, and doesn't need tinkering with - it will spoil it's characteristics.

Incidentally, tell me more about your XJ - I'm thinking of trading up my old beemer to a 7-series, or possibly XJ3.2 sport - not sure I can afford the XJR, though. Do you get that Jag cossetting experience, lots of toys, and great handling? What are the pitfalls of ownership?

[JonGwynne]

quote:
I can assure you, John, that there is no need for more low range torque! It gets off the lights pretty quickly, and a feeling of huge torque is not necessarily the same as, nor translated into, rapid acceleration. TVR spent a lot of development time getting the engine's torque curve the way it is, as part of a deliberate and integrated package to make the huge power of the engine more user-friendly. It goes like sh1t off a shovel, from 0-175+. Driving it in third gear is an experience not to be missed - the engine, 3rd. gear, and overtaking on English roads, are a partnership made in heaven, and the torque is fantastically exploitable. It's a great engine, one of the best ever straight sixes, and doesn't need tinkering with - it will spoil it's characteristics.

Incidentally, tell me more about your XJ - I'm thinking of trading up my old beemer to a 7-series, or possibly XJ3.2 sport - not sure I can afford the XJR, though. Do you get that Jag cossetting experience, lots of toys, and great handling? What are the pitfalls of ownership?

You shouldn't have any trouble affording an XJR if you're shopping in that range. The real question is whether you want the straight-six or the V8. I've seen the I6 versions from just under £10 grand up to about £13. The V8s seem to start up about where the older ones leave off.

Personally, I prefer the XJR to the standard 6/8 because the suspension is quite a bit tighter and more to my taste. The standard setting seems to be a bit "floaty". When pressed, it can seem to wallow a little. I've never driven one of the "Sport" models but there's at least a chance they have the same suspension setup as the superchaged models.

I definitely prefer them to BMWs as I've never driven or ridden in a BMW that left me anything other than underwhelmed (though, to be fair, I haven't been in an M5 yet and I'll suspend my final judgement until I do). I will say that the 850 I drove was terribly disappointing. My old Merc 450SL had much more spunk.

Anyway, I've had my XJR for several months now and never once have regretted buying it. It is absolutely fierce with the Traction Control off and the transmission in "sport mode". The torque is immediate and freigh-train-like from any amount of revs. In terms of speed there is minimal difference between the 6 and the 8 (about .3 second on the 0-60 time). The mileage is rather low (high teens) but well worth the fun in my opinion. Mechanically, I understand they're pretty much bullet-proof if properly cared for - though, like many british cars, their oil seals aren't perfect so expect a little weeping and seeping (or a big bill to put a temporary stop to it).

I'm sure I don't have to tell a TVR fan of the value of having a FSH and the need to have any prospective buys given a thorough inspection by someone who knows what they're looking at.

But, in the end there is something really very special about being wafted down the road in profound comfort in something that will keep up with a Lotus Elise to 60 and then leave it for dead to 100 and beyond.

And, despite its bulk and weight, the XJR goes around corners pretty well - better than my Honda S2000.

On the subject of the Tamora - don't get me wrong, it is certainly a fast car. It just hasn't quite got the neck-snapping acceleration I had expected and gives me the impression that there is scope for improvement.