Cerbera Replacement
Discussion
Obviously TVR can't stop using, developing, refining the speed eight: that would be shooting in their feet. Since no Tuscan engine bay is wide enough for a V8 there should be a Cerbera replacement, but as to say when, ?????
I have read here that there may be a "surprise" at the next show, but I don't want to start any rumour!
Anyway, be sure we PH will be about the first to know about it
>> Edited by Botthom on Tuesday 21st May 09:15
I have read here that there may be a "surprise" at the next show, but I don't want to start any rumour!
Anyway, be sure we PH will be about the first to know about it
>> Edited by Botthom on Tuesday 21st May 09:15
I think what they need more than anything else is a cheaper model, perhaps with a bought in engine. But no doubt many people would disagree....
Something along the lines of the S, perhaps with a GM V8.
Or they could follow Porsches example, buy in the old Range Rover design and graft on a Tuscan nose
Something along the lines of the S, perhaps with a GM V8.
Or they could follow Porsches example, buy in the old Range Rover design and graft on a Tuscan nose
If they do replace the cerbera, I hope that they make a convertible four-seater. I found the cerbera too claustrophobic so I'm sticking with the chimaera and buying a eurobox for the family.
I suspect that it is too difficult to make one without the inevitable scuttle-shake problem.
R
I suspect that it is too difficult to make one without the inevitable scuttle-shake problem.
R
quote:
About a bought-in engine, don't you think instead they could build a four by cutting the V8 in half?
Imagine a 2.5-2.7l straight four with 250bhp: that could be a good idea for an entry-model
I'm thinking more of the cost. Surely an older chevrolet engine would be cheaper to source than a hand made in-house engine. Probably wouldn't cost them so much in warranty either....
I certainly wasn't suggesting a 1.8 K-series like the elise
, more like a 3.5 litre V6 or V8. I suppose it depends on where PW is wanting to take the company, but I would have thought that a basic 'bread and butter' model at £25-30k would provide more funds than introducing cars at the top end.
I certainly wouldnt criticise PW - he's put his money where his mouth is, and TVR wouldnt be the company it is now if it wasnt for him.
IMO TVR's current model strategy is seriously flawed. The various motoring magazines have pointed out the illogic of having models which appear to be competing with each other on price, though they are different.
I do think that an entry level model might be required that's cheaper than the Tamora. Alternatively, the Tamora could be left as the entry level model and, justified via an increase in build quality and performance, new models introduced further up the price range. I wonder if this is what PW has in mind when he talks about making less cars higher up in the market?....
Someone has said elsewhere on PH that the current range are in danger of lacking power (perhaps even power-to-weight) when compared to new models that are planned from other manufacturers (e.g. next M5 500bhp, Audi RS6 470bhp+, Skyline 400bhp+, etc.) and I think he had a point. I can't believe many TVR owners would be happy at not being able to blow an estate or saloon away in a straight line or on the twisty bits?
I suspect a top of the range model for a Cerbera replacement would go down very well with a 600bhp+ V12 and weight comparable to the current model. This would allow TVR to retain their selling point of outrageous power-to-weight at a low cost, but quality must be improved. For me the Tuscan R is fast enough to represent the pinnacle of the Tuscan range but it is quite expensive (but that's understandble given the fact that's it's more like the Cerbera Speed 12 than the standard Tuscan). I'd also be interested in a more powerful Tamora S/R?
Just as an aside, I think that the Tamora is a bargain and I was amazed when Autocar said it was expensive and marked it down as a result!! They were looking at it from the point of view of it being expensive as an entry level model, not expensive for what you got (which is surely the whole point of what they do!?) - what else comes close for God's sake?!
I do think that an entry level model might be required that's cheaper than the Tamora. Alternatively, the Tamora could be left as the entry level model and, justified via an increase in build quality and performance, new models introduced further up the price range. I wonder if this is what PW has in mind when he talks about making less cars higher up in the market?....
Someone has said elsewhere on PH that the current range are in danger of lacking power (perhaps even power-to-weight) when compared to new models that are planned from other manufacturers (e.g. next M5 500bhp, Audi RS6 470bhp+, Skyline 400bhp+, etc.) and I think he had a point. I can't believe many TVR owners would be happy at not being able to blow an estate or saloon away in a straight line or on the twisty bits?
I suspect a top of the range model for a Cerbera replacement would go down very well with a 600bhp+ V12 and weight comparable to the current model. This would allow TVR to retain their selling point of outrageous power-to-weight at a low cost, but quality must be improved. For me the Tuscan R is fast enough to represent the pinnacle of the Tuscan range but it is quite expensive (but that's understandble given the fact that's it's more like the Cerbera Speed 12 than the standard Tuscan). I'd also be interested in a more powerful Tamora S/R?
Just as an aside, I think that the Tamora is a bargain and I was amazed when Autocar said it was expensive and marked it down as a result!! They were looking at it from the point of view of it being expensive as an entry level model, not expensive for what you got (which is surely the whole point of what they do!?) - what else comes close for God's sake?!
I've gotta say that I think there are a few years left in the Cerb yet. I can see the evolution going firstly to the route of a 5.0 AJP8 for the Cerb (or at least I hope so!) as a final revamp. Then after that I can see the much talked about V10 rearing its head in something that is similar to the Cerb, a 2+2 (as the Tuscan R is not apparently) but creating a new line of cars i.e. not in the T-car mould at all.
Matt.
Matt.
Powerplants for future TVRs have got to be home grown.
The factory took the very brave, and commendable step of pioneering their own engines and (hopefully now all the bugs are sorted) they'd be crazy to buy engines from elsewhere.
And anyway whose engine?
BMW/Merc/Audi - don't think so (I don't think PW is aware that WW2 ever finished).
GM - who'd pay over 30 grand a Vauxhall engined sports car?!
Jaguar - it's Ford anyway now, they have their own plans for (albeit on hold) for a directly competitive car, and the future for the PAG is none to certain either.
I'd like to see an AJP V10 or V12 engined flagship model, and also some kind of proper 2 + 2 kind of thing (because apparently I'm not allowed TWO two seater convertibles).
The factory took the very brave, and commendable step of pioneering their own engines and (hopefully now all the bugs are sorted) they'd be crazy to buy engines from elsewhere.
And anyway whose engine?
BMW/Merc/Audi - don't think so (I don't think PW is aware that WW2 ever finished).
GM - who'd pay over 30 grand a Vauxhall engined sports car?!
Jaguar - it's Ford anyway now, they have their own plans for (albeit on hold) for a directly competitive car, and the future for the PAG is none to certain either.
I'd like to see an AJP V10 or V12 engined flagship model, and also some kind of proper 2 + 2 kind of thing (because apparently I'm not allowed TWO two seater convertibles).
It would be fairly simple to rebody and repackage the Cerbera. For example in the last couple of months since TVR adopted Zertec's blended in approach to the headlights (on all Cerberas) sales have picked up. There's life in the old dog yet (pardon the pun). A new body style would work wonders, why mess with the mechanicals when they have spent half a decade sorting them out. They could even rename it.
>> Edited by zertec on Tuesday 21st May 12:31
>> Edited by zertec on Tuesday 21st May 12:31
quote:
Personally I think a TVR with a 400bhp + BMW V8 or 345bhp + M Power straight 6 with bugger all silencing and fantastic power to weight ratio would be awesome.
If its fine to use a Rover (Buick) engine why not a BMW?
Cos it wouldnt be british any more. neglecting all the other foreign bits.
....and because they build '000's of them so that
a) the average cost comes down
b) they're more reliable
...whoops sounds like the above mail
But anyway, it's not as though TVR have re-invented the internal combustion engine. If they put some differenct cams in, re-map the ECU, put a different cover on it and give it some throaty exhaust, who cares who "designed" it.
I'd vote for the Jag V6 engine in a base car...like a Tamora that hadn't been beaten senseless with the ugly stick
a) the average cost comes down
b) they're more reliable
...whoops sounds like the above mail
But anyway, it's not as though TVR have re-invented the internal combustion engine. If they put some differenct cams in, re-map the ECU, put a different cover on it and give it some throaty exhaust, who cares who "designed" it.
I'd vote for the Jag V6 engine in a base car...like a Tamora that hadn't been beaten senseless with the ugly stick
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