Early Griffith 500 - sensible buy?
Discussion
Hello all,
I'm currently driving a Mk 1 MX-5. I've always planned that it'd do until I hit 25 or thereabouts, and then I'd upgrade; always loved TVRs.
However, I've recently been tempted by an excellent deal from a local dealer on an early Griff 500.
It's a 1994 L with 24k miles. Needs "minor cosmetic work to front end paintwork and interior." New tyres, "good" service history.
I'm off to check it out tomorrow, so obviously I'll have some more ammo then.
I'm interested in any experiences from people who've had a 94 vintage Chim or Griff, and what they're like; could you run one as your only car?
This is a real head vs heart thing; I'm pushing slightly to afford it, and pushing slightly to afford the insurance. If the gearbox was to drop out, the clutch to explode, and a service come up at the same time I'd pretty much be off the road.
I'd be putting 15k miles on it a year for the first couple of years, while moving around with work. I'd need to make the occassional 400-odd mile motorway journey, even in the pissing rain.
Is it a bad move? Should I hold off, stick with the sensible option I have and get ahold of a Tamora or Chimp in a couple of years.....?
Any advice and comments more than welcome, good or bad.
And hello to anyone who also posts on the evo forum
I'm currently driving a Mk 1 MX-5. I've always planned that it'd do until I hit 25 or thereabouts, and then I'd upgrade; always loved TVRs.
However, I've recently been tempted by an excellent deal from a local dealer on an early Griff 500.
It's a 1994 L with 24k miles. Needs "minor cosmetic work to front end paintwork and interior." New tyres, "good" service history.
I'm off to check it out tomorrow, so obviously I'll have some more ammo then.
I'm interested in any experiences from people who've had a 94 vintage Chim or Griff, and what they're like; could you run one as your only car?
This is a real head vs heart thing; I'm pushing slightly to afford it, and pushing slightly to afford the insurance. If the gearbox was to drop out, the clutch to explode, and a service come up at the same time I'd pretty much be off the road.
I'd be putting 15k miles on it a year for the first couple of years, while moving around with work. I'd need to make the occassional 400-odd mile motorway journey, even in the pissing rain.
Is it a bad move? Should I hold off, stick with the sensible option I have and get ahold of a Tamora or Chimp in a couple of years.....?
Any advice and comments more than welcome, good or bad.
And hello to anyone who also posts on the evo forum
I've got a 96 4L Chimaera as my only car for past 4 years - around 10k a year - no problems so far.
One thing I didn't know until after I bought mine.
Griff takes far more concentration than a Chimaera to drive as Griff suspension/tyres much stiffer.
Had a ding repaired in mine last year at a TVR specialist repairer, and he said that although there are 3 times as many Chimps around as Griffs, he has 3 times more Griffs in for repairs, as they are less forgiving.
Worth thinking about, don't know if anyone else can back this up.
I've certainly not had any regrets in my 4 years as a TVR driver.
One thing I didn't know until after I bought mine.
Griff takes far more concentration than a Chimaera to drive as Griff suspension/tyres much stiffer.
Had a ding repaired in mine last year at a TVR specialist repairer, and he said that although there are 3 times as many Chimps around as Griffs, he has 3 times more Griffs in for repairs, as they are less forgiving.
Worth thinking about, don't know if anyone else can back this up.
I've certainly not had any regrets in my 4 years as a TVR driver.
Temperate
Go for it.
You never said the price it was going for.
With Most Tvr's you can expect to get quite a few stone chips on the nose.Amourfend do a protective seethrough cover but i have heard mixed views on these,think it depends on the colour.
I stretched myself a bit to buy my 500 but do have a bit in reserve for any major faults but thats just my emergency purse for house/car/holiday etc.
As for low mileage i think u can look at in two diffent ways;
1 should have loads of miles left in the old veee8
2 has it been standing around alot,which doesnt help the engine and other parts much.
As for driving everyday i dont think you'll have any problems aslong as u keep it regually serviced and as for driving in the wet,yeah the can be a handful in the wrong hands,you've just gotta learn note to put u foot straight to the floor and just feed the throttle/clutch as with most powerful motorbikes if you just twisted the throttle full back and dumped the clutch you,d be of the back.
All the best hope some of this helped.
Simon
Go for it.
You never said the price it was going for.
With Most Tvr's you can expect to get quite a few stone chips on the nose.Amourfend do a protective seethrough cover but i have heard mixed views on these,think it depends on the colour.
I stretched myself a bit to buy my 500 but do have a bit in reserve for any major faults but thats just my emergency purse for house/car/holiday etc.
As for low mileage i think u can look at in two diffent ways;
1 should have loads of miles left in the old veee8
2 has it been standing around alot,which doesnt help the engine and other parts much.
As for driving everyday i dont think you'll have any problems aslong as u keep it regually serviced and as for driving in the wet,yeah the can be a handful in the wrong hands,you've just gotta learn note to put u foot straight to the floor and just feed the throttle/clutch as with most powerful motorbikes if you just twisted the throttle full back and dumped the clutch you,d be of the back.
All the best hope some of this helped.
Simon
Sipow,
Sorry, it's £12.5k, and I'm likely to be able to get almost £9k for my trade-in.
Don't want to die on a wet motorway in November, nor find myself sitting on its hard shoulder waiting for the RAC!
It's not the sensible option, but I'm worried about streching myself. I can't sensibly afford lots of new tyres, frequent services, and major failures, and a ton of petrol. But I could probably get away with it if I was quite conservative.
Got a few debts I could be doing with paying off; but this is real head vs heart stuff!
Sorry, it's £12.5k, and I'm likely to be able to get almost £9k for my trade-in.
Don't want to die on a wet motorway in November, nor find myself sitting on its hard shoulder waiting for the RAC!
It's not the sensible option, but I'm worried about streching myself. I can't sensibly afford lots of new tyres, frequent services, and major failures, and a ton of petrol. But I could probably get away with it if I was quite conservative.
Got a few debts I could be doing with paying off; but this is real head vs heart stuff!
Many people will say that early 500s can be a bit iffy, and suggest you either plump for a 4.x or save up a bit and get a later (Serpentine) 500.
However, every rule has an exception, every TVR is different, and you may have found a really nice clean early 500 that's been loved and cherished.
Ultimately we buy TVRs with our hearts. If it's the right spec inside and out, if the service history is good, if the price is right and if every question that you have is answered satisfactorily, then why not buy it?
On the subject of 'questions', you might do well to visit your nearest TVRCC meeting and see some cars in the flesh, and get the SH 'Bible'. Knowledge is power.
However, every rule has an exception, every TVR is different, and you may have found a really nice clean early 500 that's been loved and cherished.
Ultimately we buy TVRs with our hearts. If it's the right spec inside and out, if the service history is good, if the price is right and if every question that you have is answered satisfactorily, then why not buy it?
On the subject of 'questions', you might do well to visit your nearest TVRCC meeting and see some cars in the flesh, and get the SH 'Bible'. Knowledge is power.
I'm only young once, after all!
I'll check it out tomorrow and let everyone here know what it's like. If it's tidy, has the right stamps, the trade-in is good, and it just feels right, then sod the occassional wet motorway journey.
After all, gently with the right foot and you're fine, right?
I'll check it out tomorrow and let everyone here know what it's like. If it's tidy, has the right stamps, the trade-in is good, and it just feels right, then sod the occassional wet motorway journey.
After all, gently with the right foot and you're fine, right?
I blundered straight into the purchase of my Chimaera. I've wanted one for ever, but have always been a bit poor (I don't work in IT like most of the guys here!), so I decided my road to entry would be an 'S'. I figured that on my budget (about £13,000) I would get a damn near immaculate one, possibly a V8S. I wanted to be able to tinker with it as well in a kind of basic DIY way. I wanted the lightest of all light renovations to do (clean it immensely, grease evrything, change HT leads - are you with me here?!)
So I wandered off to David Gerald just to look around and learn a bit more (certainly not to buy!!) and there it was, a K reg Chimaera. I sat in it, asked a stupid question or two, drove it and then, well, bought it. This came as a tremendous shock. I came over so dozy and rose-tinted that I overlooked a three year (12,000 mile) gap in the Service history. Still, I assured myself that DG had a reputation to maintain and that all would be well. I also never in a million years dreamed I would be able to afford a Chimaera.
It's now 6 months later, and its brilliant. I have had to do a complete renovation on the chassis, which I hated at the time, but in retrospect I really enjoyed as I got to know the car really well! I even took it out in the rain yesterday! I have also tidied up wiring, installed new stereo's, speakers, fitted new tyres etc.
It's a bit tatty inside - the seats are excellent, but the carpets have seen better days. It's not perfect, is way off concourse spec., but has been utterly reliable (touch lots of wood) and superb fun. I don't use it every day, as I am never in the UK, but honestly reckon if I wanted to, it would handle it, even though it is 9 years old. As much as I struggle to achieve this, I firmly believe that these cars should be driven and NOT laid up for vast periods.
In my honest opinion, compared to most things made in the last 10 years, it is an enormously basic car, which a competent mechanic should be able to deal with as long as he sticks to basic golden rules. Use an independent specialist and you are laughing.
In retrospect, I could have bought better privately for the same price, but I have still not regretted this decision for one minute. I love the thing, there is loads of scope for 'little' improvements at my leisure, and it is a great toy.
Can it be a day to day car? Probably. But prepare yourself for very high running costs (both in terms of fuel and minor things going wrong - which rack up). When you buy it, check that chassis. I have rarely seen many of that age which are spotless, but check it is fixable and be prepared to do it.
I hope it all works out!
So I wandered off to David Gerald just to look around and learn a bit more (certainly not to buy!!) and there it was, a K reg Chimaera. I sat in it, asked a stupid question or two, drove it and then, well, bought it. This came as a tremendous shock. I came over so dozy and rose-tinted that I overlooked a three year (12,000 mile) gap in the Service history. Still, I assured myself that DG had a reputation to maintain and that all would be well. I also never in a million years dreamed I would be able to afford a Chimaera.
It's now 6 months later, and its brilliant. I have had to do a complete renovation on the chassis, which I hated at the time, but in retrospect I really enjoyed as I got to know the car really well! I even took it out in the rain yesterday! I have also tidied up wiring, installed new stereo's, speakers, fitted new tyres etc.
It's a bit tatty inside - the seats are excellent, but the carpets have seen better days. It's not perfect, is way off concourse spec., but has been utterly reliable (touch lots of wood) and superb fun. I don't use it every day, as I am never in the UK, but honestly reckon if I wanted to, it would handle it, even though it is 9 years old. As much as I struggle to achieve this, I firmly believe that these cars should be driven and NOT laid up for vast periods.
In my honest opinion, compared to most things made in the last 10 years, it is an enormously basic car, which a competent mechanic should be able to deal with as long as he sticks to basic golden rules. Use an independent specialist and you are laughing.
In retrospect, I could have bought better privately for the same price, but I have still not regretted this decision for one minute. I love the thing, there is loads of scope for 'little' improvements at my leisure, and it is a great toy.
Can it be a day to day car? Probably. But prepare yourself for very high running costs (both in terms of fuel and minor things going wrong - which rack up). When you buy it, check that chassis. I have rarely seen many of that age which are spotless, but check it is fixable and be prepared to do it.
I hope it all works out!
Ive got a 95 pre serpentine 500. Its low mileage and also needed a few owner tartups, Its now pretty good and better than most newer ones condition wise. I had a front end respray to hide stonechips also. If you do the niggly jobs your self it will save the money. And go to a good independant for servicing etc as its much cheaper. The only thing that has gone wrong so far is a new stepper motor(notorious on all TVR V8 cars) and the cluth master cylinder has a slight leak( again common) other than that now wrong. Only you can decide.
Of course you should do it! price looks Ok but as none of us have seen the car/know the spec or the history only you can be the judge.
If you do decide that you want it then get it inspected by someone who knows the cars(NoelV8 in your area???) & you sholud avoid buying a lemon.
IMHO if you can look at a decent number of these cars you can easily tell which are the lemons.
If you do decide that you want it then get it inspected by someone who knows the cars(NoelV8 in your area???) & you sholud avoid buying a lemon.
IMHO if you can look at a decent number of these cars you can easily tell which are the lemons.
You might want to contact CleG who has just bought a 95 Grif 500 for £12k (don't think he'll mind me posting that).
Needed about £1k work doing on it, so if you're talking about a 93/94 Griff for £12.5K, it is about the right money (sounds as though mileage is less), but may require some attention.
Get someone to check it out, preferably a local independant. I can always recommend Joolz....
Needed about £1k work doing on it, so if you're talking about a 93/94 Griff for £12.5K, it is about the right money (sounds as though mileage is less), but may require some attention.
Get someone to check it out, preferably a local independant. I can always recommend Joolz....
hehe not far off .. 1996 500, 12.9k and the work 1k .. but I love her and she was deff worth it
Mine is the slightly later serpentine engine but I will be happy to pass on any advice, just email me post etc chris@mytec.freeserve.co.uk if you have any questions matey.
Joolz @ joospeed.net gave me all his expert advice when I was looking which came in handy (I should expect so as my dad tought him motor vehicle engineering hehe, but he learnt his tvr skills 8+ years at a dealer)
If you are unsure, having it checked out is good advice.
>> Edited by CleG on Tuesday 21st May 23:07
Mine is the slightly later serpentine engine but I will be happy to pass on any advice, just email me post etc chris@mytec.freeserve.co.uk if you have any questions matey.
Joolz @ joospeed.net gave me all his expert advice when I was looking which came in handy (I should expect so as my dad tought him motor vehicle engineering hehe, but he learnt his tvr skills 8+ years at a dealer)
If you are unsure, having it checked out is good advice.
>> Edited by CleG on Tuesday 21st May 23:07
Temperate - the Griff 500 is a great car and gives more thrills per mile than almost anything.
The early Griff 500 was known as an absolute fire breather - some had no catalist and the older rover based gearbox (as opposed to the borg warner T5) - if its really stiff it a BG T5. Both are OK boxes.
No probs with it being pre cat but they are firebreathers and a bit raw !
If you are 25 - check out the insurance first - all TVR's are group 20 (out of 20!).
You say 15K / year - that will be expensive in a TVR
- expect 22 ~ 24 mpg when driven normally (never more !) and less if really thrashed but realistically you can never really do that for long in England can you !
15 K = 1 set of tyres per year (my Bridgestone S02's
rears lasted 12k, fronts longer at about 18K) if you shop around figure on £550 per set of 4.
Servicing every 6K (so 2.5 services per year) -
(6k - £400, 12K - £500, 6k - £400, 24k - £600) - these are fairly average prices. You can do it your self if you know what you are doing....
Rain & long journeys - not something TVR's are good at
- although it can and is done !
They only weigh 1060KG and they can aqua plane very easyily in heavy rain - I know someone who wrote off his Chimp 500 by spinning at 60mph and it's one of the only times that I get scared in the Griff.
Front end re-spray - £500.
It must be said - the older they are the more they will cost you to keep on the road(same for all cars !).
It is your choice - if you were using it for a Sunday car - I'd say go for it or even if you were keeping a few thousand in the bank for running costs but as you are pushing your self - I would advise you to be careful.
Good luck
Rev.
The early Griff 500 was known as an absolute fire breather - some had no catalist and the older rover based gearbox (as opposed to the borg warner T5) - if its really stiff it a BG T5. Both are OK boxes.
No probs with it being pre cat but they are firebreathers and a bit raw !
If you are 25 - check out the insurance first - all TVR's are group 20 (out of 20!).
You say 15K / year - that will be expensive in a TVR
- expect 22 ~ 24 mpg when driven normally (never more !) and less if really thrashed but realistically you can never really do that for long in England can you !
15 K = 1 set of tyres per year (my Bridgestone S02's
rears lasted 12k, fronts longer at about 18K) if you shop around figure on £550 per set of 4.
Servicing every 6K (so 2.5 services per year) -
(6k - £400, 12K - £500, 6k - £400, 24k - £600) - these are fairly average prices. You can do it your self if you know what you are doing....
Rain & long journeys - not something TVR's are good at
- although it can and is done !
They only weigh 1060KG and they can aqua plane very easyily in heavy rain - I know someone who wrote off his Chimp 500 by spinning at 60mph and it's one of the only times that I get scared in the Griff.
Front end re-spray - £500.
It must be said - the older they are the more they will cost you to keep on the road(same for all cars !).
It is your choice - if you were using it for a Sunday car - I'd say go for it or even if you were keeping a few thousand in the bank for running costs but as you are pushing your self - I would advise you to be careful.
Good luck
Rev.
Morbid thought,
You're lying on your death bed thinking:
'why did I never buy that TVR'
The cars you're looking at should hold their price, so even if it's not for you you won't lose..
REV is right though - best plan is to put some cash aside each month for eventualities..
Go and listen to one start up...
>> Edited by pedestrian on Wednesday 22 May 10:33
You're lying on your death bed thinking:
'why did I never buy that TVR'
The cars you're looking at should hold their price, so even if it's not for you you won't lose..
REV is right though - best plan is to put some cash aside each month for eventualities..
Go and listen to one start up...
>> Edited by pedestrian on Wednesday 22 May 10:33
Sure, owning a TVR is a life long dream for most of us, and until you've done you'll wish you had.
If you have very little spare cash left over after purchasing the Griff and insurance I would advise strongly against it.
I had a '98 Griff, and after a miserable time I sold it a year later, the total cost inc depreciation was 16k in 1 year!!! Ok, I had a rotten apple, but we aware of the potential costs involved. Mine also had a warranty, I hate to think what the bill would have been without. Beautiful cars, just go into ownership with your eyes open.
I suspect you've already made the decision though... the heart leads the wallet in cases like this
If you have very little spare cash left over after purchasing the Griff and insurance I would advise strongly against it.
I had a '98 Griff, and after a miserable time I sold it a year later, the total cost inc depreciation was 16k in 1 year!!! Ok, I had a rotten apple, but we aware of the potential costs involved. Mine also had a warranty, I hate to think what the bill would have been without. Beautiful cars, just go into ownership with your eyes open.
I suspect you've already made the decision though... the heart leads the wallet in cases like this
quote:
Sure, owning a TVR is a life long dream for most of us, and until you've done you'll wish you had.
If you have very little spare cash left over after purchasing the Griff and insurance I would advise strongly against it.
I had a '98 Griff, and after a miserable time I sold it a year later, the total cost inc depreciation was 16k in 1 year!!! Ok, I had a rotten apple, but we aware of the potential costs involved. Mine also had a warranty, I hate to think what the bill would have been without. Beautiful cars, just go into ownership with your eyes open.
I suspect you've already made the decision though... the heart leads the wallet in cases like this
What the hell was wrong with the car? I've just been working out the costs of my Chimaera 500 over 18 months and 20,000 miles - see my profile. It works out at about £570 per month total running costs or £0.43 per mile which is bloody good value if you ask me.
from Temperate
First of all - they're Chimaeras not Chimps!
If you want to know total running costs see my profile as I cover similar mileage (no I don't use it for commuting) - you will get the odd problem/niggle but if you keep on top of them or sort them out yourself you will be alright. Mine has a full dealer service with minor work carried out by independants between services. If you are going to use independants for all your servicing you should be able to reduce the overall costs - depends on what needs doing.
Hope you don't buy a duff one - mine is well looked after which costs me more as I'm not able to do much beyond changing a bulb. Whatever you buy, get it looked at by either a good dealer or independant before parting with your money.
When you are on the lookout, make sure that it has leather seats at least - some early ones are vinyl and look tatty after a lot of miles. If you can find one with full leather even better. Don't buy the first one you try - you need to be able to compare different ones together to get an idea about handling, power, etc as there can be hugh differences between similar cars.
>> Edited by sybaseian on Wednesday 22 May 13:29
quote:
I'd be putting 15k miles on it a year for the first couple of years, while moving around with work. I'd need to make the occassional 400-odd mile motorway journey, even in the pissing rain.
Is it a bad move? Should I hold off, stick with the sensible option I have and get ahold of a Tamora or Chimp in a couple of years.....?
Any advice and comments more than welcome, good or bad.
And hello to anyone who also posts on the evo forum
First of all - they're Chimaeras not Chimps!
If you want to know total running costs see my profile as I cover similar mileage (no I don't use it for commuting) - you will get the odd problem/niggle but if you keep on top of them or sort them out yourself you will be alright. Mine has a full dealer service with minor work carried out by independants between services. If you are going to use independants for all your servicing you should be able to reduce the overall costs - depends on what needs doing.
Hope you don't buy a duff one - mine is well looked after which costs me more as I'm not able to do much beyond changing a bulb. Whatever you buy, get it looked at by either a good dealer or independant before parting with your money.
When you are on the lookout, make sure that it has leather seats at least - some early ones are vinyl and look tatty after a lot of miles. If you can find one with full leather even better. Don't buy the first one you try - you need to be able to compare different ones together to get an idea about handling, power, etc as there can be hugh differences between similar cars.
>> Edited by sybaseian on Wednesday 22 May 13:29
quote:
What the hell was wrong with the car? I've just been working out the costs of my Chimaera 500 over 18 months and 20,000 miles - see my profile. It works out at about £570 per month total running costs or £0.43 per mile which is bloody good value if you ask me.
Well I'm no statistician but I reckon that's 51p/mile not 43p/mile
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