Audi RS6 Gearboxes
Discussion
No rhyme or reason to them failing. We did a survey on rs246.com and it seemed to be pretty evenly matched ,'mapped vs unmappd' so its not even the modding that kills them. If you drive it carefully. ie warm it up, not too many 0-60's and have it serviced every 40k then it should last you well. Mine is on 92k and still on original box. Its all down to luck!
Can only agree with the above comments as we don't see a particular pattern to it either. Seen 100k cars going strong that have never even had a box oil change whereas some much lower mileage cars can suffer.
I think Audi's latest reccomendation on gearbox oil changes is 60k but have heard lots of different numbers thrown around. Heard from one dealer that it is reccomended that you change it but there isn't a specified time or mileage interval, it is just a reccomendation
The first signs of failure seem to come under hard use: put it in manual, put it in 3rd with the speed as low as possible. Floor it (***without*** hitting the kickdown switch) and let it go to the red line (don't change manually); it should go very near to the red bit and when it does it should shift smoothly without banging or lurching. It can show as well when in drive under medium throttle (as the box tries to shuffle up the gear quickly). If your gearbox oil starts looking like a hairy Harry you may well have a problem.
I think Audi's latest reccomendation on gearbox oil changes is 60k but have heard lots of different numbers thrown around. Heard from one dealer that it is reccomended that you change it but there isn't a specified time or mileage interval, it is just a reccomendation
The first signs of failure seem to come under hard use: put it in manual, put it in 3rd with the speed as low as possible. Floor it (***without*** hitting the kickdown switch) and let it go to the red line (don't change manually); it should go very near to the red bit and when it does it should shift smoothly without banging or lurching. It can show as well when in drive under medium throttle (as the box tries to shuffle up the gear quickly). If your gearbox oil starts looking like a hairy Harry you may well have a problem.
Edited by Dr G on Thursday 3rd June 08:55
Dr G said:
The first signs of failure seem to come under hard use: put it in manual, put it in 3rd with the speed as low as possible. Floor it (***without*** hitting the kickdown switch) and let it go to the red line (don't change manually); it should go very near to the red bit and when it does it should shift smoothly without banging or lurching.
What speed is the car doing at the redline in 3rd?If buying, many owners wouldn't be happy with you doing silly speeds on a test drive.
Dracoro said:
Dr G said:
The first signs of failure seem to come under hard use: put it in manual, put it in 3rd with the speed as low as possible. Floor it (***without*** hitting the kickdown switch) and let it go to the red line (don't change manually); it should go very near to the red bit and when it does it should shift smoothly without banging or lurching.
What speed is the car doing at the redline in 3rd?If buying, many owners wouldn't be happy with you doing silly speeds on a test drive.
Nearly right...
The symptom usually appears to be that you are accelerating in 1st, 2nd, and usually just as your engine begins to reach some torque the drive disengages, the revs shoot upwards due to the lack of loading from the 'box, and before you have time to react and reduce your throttle input the drive re-engages with a huge jolt. Not nice.
It's important to try full throttle when the car is warm to test the above, but I don't think you would need to drive at any illegal speeds to reveal the fault.
The symptom usually appears to be that you are accelerating in 1st, 2nd, and usually just as your engine begins to reach some torque the drive disengages, the revs shoot upwards due to the lack of loading from the 'box, and before you have time to react and reduce your throttle input the drive re-engages with a huge jolt. Not nice.
It's important to try full throttle when the car is warm to test the above, but I don't think you would need to drive at any illegal speeds to reveal the fault.
Sometimes (but not always) the best option is to have the box rebuilt by a ZF gearbox specialist.
google ZF specilist and you can find loads.
http://www.zf.com/eu/content/en/great_britain/corp...
http://automatic-gearbox.co.uk/gearboxes/83/audi-g...
The prices shown here for removal and refit are arround 1/4 of what a london dealer would ask. Part price for an exchange box is about the same, but if they can rebuild the old one that would likely be much less to.
google ZF specilist and you can find loads.
http://www.zf.com/eu/content/en/great_britain/corp...
http://automatic-gearbox.co.uk/gearboxes/83/audi-g...
The prices shown here for removal and refit are arround 1/4 of what a london dealer would ask. Part price for an exchange box is about the same, but if they can rebuild the old one that would likely be much less to.
I was considering one a few weeks backs as a daily driver ( would ony do about 5k a year) but after reading up on the gearbox and DRC issues I decided against it.If a new box had cost maybe £1.5/ £2k then I may have took the risk, but at near £5k it was too much to worry about,I wouldn't have enjoyed the car for fear of it going bang.
Its not really fair to say RS6 gearbox are problematic, its all auto gearbox's.
As a mechanic with 15 years in the trade with both Audi and jaguar, I "ALWAYS" consider auto gearbox's to be a consumable item, life expectancy in my mind is 120,000 miles.
If you have a failure before then, you can consider your self unlucky, after that point consider yourself lucky. If it fails at 120,000 miles well thats to be expected.
I have nearly bought a 400bhp S-Type R about 3 times now, and every time I talked myself out of it cos its gonna need a box one day. Now they are so cheap, it might be worth the risk. The S-Type uses virtually the same gearbox as the RS6 and deals with similar power/torque.
Gearbox oil changes every 60,000 or 5 years should seriously prolong the life, but for marketing reasons its not on the service schedule so doesn't happen widely enough to really know if it makes a difference.
I'd really like to know from a ZF franchised rebuilder how much difference changing the oil makes, and how many boxes they rebuild as this sort of mileage.
None of the car or transmission manufacturers will every admit this is likely, but it IMHO it is. I'm talking about proper normal torque converter auto's here, if its flappy paddle/twin clutch or manual masquerading as an semi auto then its working harder for its living and you may see problems sooner, Like the mechatronics on the DSG's etc.
As a mechanic with 15 years in the trade with both Audi and jaguar, I "ALWAYS" consider auto gearbox's to be a consumable item, life expectancy in my mind is 120,000 miles.
If you have a failure before then, you can consider your self unlucky, after that point consider yourself lucky. If it fails at 120,000 miles well thats to be expected.
I have nearly bought a 400bhp S-Type R about 3 times now, and every time I talked myself out of it cos its gonna need a box one day. Now they are so cheap, it might be worth the risk. The S-Type uses virtually the same gearbox as the RS6 and deals with similar power/torque.
Gearbox oil changes every 60,000 or 5 years should seriously prolong the life, but for marketing reasons its not on the service schedule so doesn't happen widely enough to really know if it makes a difference.
I'd really like to know from a ZF franchised rebuilder how much difference changing the oil makes, and how many boxes they rebuild as this sort of mileage.
None of the car or transmission manufacturers will every admit this is likely, but it IMHO it is. I'm talking about proper normal torque converter auto's here, if its flappy paddle/twin clutch or manual masquerading as an semi auto then its working harder for its living and you may see problems sooner, Like the mechatronics on the DSG's etc.
^^^^^ this is what put me off a nice-looking C5 S6 recently. It had just ticked past 120k and was on the original box. I had seen several others at similar mileage that had had rebuilds or new boxes, so it just seemed likely to go sooner rather than later...
So I bought a manual S4 instead!
So I bought a manual S4 instead!
drybeer said:
Nearly right...
The symptom usually appears to be that you are accelerating in 1st, 2nd, and usually just as your engine begins to reach some torque the drive disengages, the revs shoot upwards due to the lack of loading from the 'box, and before you have time to react and reduce your throttle input the drive re-engages with a huge jolt. Not nice.
It's important to try full throttle when the car is warm to test the above, but I don't think you would need to drive at any illegal speeds to reveal the fault.
This is exactly what happened with ours. It starts off as a barely perceptable hesitation and progressively deteriorates to very obvious disengaging/re-engaging of drive. Agree that you don't need to go anywhere near illegal speeds to check it; Brake from 60 or so down to about 15-20mph, roll for a few seconds on a trailing throttle then accelerate briskly (but not hard) up to 60/70mph. If you sense a slight hesitation followed by drive suddenly taking up, you may have a problem. Audi said that they wouldn't do any diagnostics, just fit a new gearbox for, IIRC, £6k. WD suggested A1 Premier Transmissions. I was really sceptical at 1st but after a couple of long conversations with them, was convinced they knew their onions. They fully rebuilt it for £1500 + VAT and, although I sold the car shortly afterwards, I know its been fine for the two years since.The symptom usually appears to be that you are accelerating in 1st, 2nd, and usually just as your engine begins to reach some torque the drive disengages, the revs shoot upwards due to the lack of loading from the 'box, and before you have time to react and reduce your throttle input the drive re-engages with a huge jolt. Not nice.
It's important to try full throttle when the car is warm to test the above, but I don't think you would need to drive at any illegal speeds to reveal the fault.
I decided to have the auto boxes serviced on both our Audis (2002 S8 and 2004 A6QS 3.0) with replacement fluid and filters - not flushed. Both have done similar mileages (around 50k now) with no prior issues or maintenance. Results have been very different.
The S8 now changes from R to D or the other way round and engages drive quicker and more smoothly. Noticeable improvement in shifts at both low and high throttle.
The A6 didn't have any noticeable change - it takes a little while to engage drive but is otherwise smooth as it was before.
Probably down to power levels but did expect the A6 to feel sweeter than it does post-service.
Most German vehicles of this period use a variation of the same ZF box - the lack of service intervals plus quattro meaning you can't just spool the power away through wheel slip, so it gets hot in there if abused/used hard.
Did read somewhere a while ago that you could take your car to ZF in Germany for a virtual rebuild while you wait, which sounded like it was worth considering if the box is in good order generally.
Although the faults can appear to be suggesting the box is dead, a fellow '8 owner recently stripped a faulty box in a car he bought as an engine donor and managed to identify the primary causes of faulty box to an errant oil seal and a dodgy drum due to a failing bearing. With the right skills and access to parts they can be repaired, but it's time consuming so it's labour vs outright cost to replace with a factory unit....
The S8 now changes from R to D or the other way round and engages drive quicker and more smoothly. Noticeable improvement in shifts at both low and high throttle.
The A6 didn't have any noticeable change - it takes a little while to engage drive but is otherwise smooth as it was before.
Probably down to power levels but did expect the A6 to feel sweeter than it does post-service.
Most German vehicles of this period use a variation of the same ZF box - the lack of service intervals plus quattro meaning you can't just spool the power away through wheel slip, so it gets hot in there if abused/used hard.
Did read somewhere a while ago that you could take your car to ZF in Germany for a virtual rebuild while you wait, which sounded like it was worth considering if the box is in good order generally.
Although the faults can appear to be suggesting the box is dead, a fellow '8 owner recently stripped a faulty box in a car he bought as an engine donor and managed to identify the primary causes of faulty box to an errant oil seal and a dodgy drum due to a failing bearing. With the right skills and access to parts they can be repaired, but it's time consuming so it's labour vs outright cost to replace with a factory unit....
Tame Technician said:
Its not really fair to say RS6 gearbox are problematic, its all auto gearbox's.
As a mechanic with 15 years in the trade with both Audi and jaguar, I "ALWAYS" consider auto gearbox's to be a consumable item, life expectancy in my mind is 120,000 miles.
If you have a failure before then, you can consider your self unlucky, after that point consider yourself lucky. If it fails at 120,000 miles well thats to be expected.
I have nearly bought a 400bhp S-Type R about 3 times now, and every time I talked myself out of it cos its gonna need a box one day. Now they are so cheap, it might be worth the risk. The S-Type uses virtually the same gearbox as the RS6 and deals with similar power/torque.
Gearbox oil changes every 60,000 or 5 years should seriously prolong the life, but for marketing reasons its not on the service schedule so doesn't happen widely enough to really know if it makes a difference.
I'd really like to know from a ZF franchised rebuilder how much difference changing the oil makes, and how many boxes they rebuild as this sort of mileage.
None of the car or transmission manufacturers will every admit this is likely, but it IMHO it is. I'm talking about proper normal torque converter auto's here, if its flappy paddle/twin clutch or manual masquerading as an semi auto then its working harder for its living and you may see problems sooner, Like the mechatronics on the DSG's etc.
I note the RS6 or any auto audi isn't type approved for towing??As a mechanic with 15 years in the trade with both Audi and jaguar, I "ALWAYS" consider auto gearbox's to be a consumable item, life expectancy in my mind is 120,000 miles.
If you have a failure before then, you can consider your self unlucky, after that point consider yourself lucky. If it fails at 120,000 miles well thats to be expected.
I have nearly bought a 400bhp S-Type R about 3 times now, and every time I talked myself out of it cos its gonna need a box one day. Now they are so cheap, it might be worth the risk. The S-Type uses virtually the same gearbox as the RS6 and deals with similar power/torque.
Gearbox oil changes every 60,000 or 5 years should seriously prolong the life, but for marketing reasons its not on the service schedule so doesn't happen widely enough to really know if it makes a difference.
I'd really like to know from a ZF franchised rebuilder how much difference changing the oil makes, and how many boxes they rebuild as this sort of mileage.
None of the car or transmission manufacturers will every admit this is likely, but it IMHO it is. I'm talking about proper normal torque converter auto's here, if its flappy paddle/twin clutch or manual masquerading as an semi auto then its working harder for its living and you may see problems sooner, Like the mechatronics on the DSG's etc.
obviously auto boxes have a service live before needing a re-build etc due to internal wear on clutches etc...My old 318 dodge Ram van seems to plod on with its antiquated old 3speed and overdrive though!!
Is it me or do we seem to be going backwards with cars these days..cars seem to becoming thought of as more and more disposable in todays world!!
We costed up rebuilt vs Audi boxes for RS6s a few months ago; an exchange box from ZF directly saved about £200 (without the 2 year or Audi warranty or labour covered) and the rebuilt box saved about 500 but would need to go away for a week and again lacks the Audi warranty.
Behind 3.0 TDIs I've seen 1 (just one) tiptronic box fail and I'm including A4, A5, A6, A8, Q7... Have never heard of a V10 S or RS6 box fail either. V8 RS6s however (as above) munch them whenever they feel like (even as low as 20k).
Behind 3.0 TDIs I've seen 1 (just one) tiptronic box fail and I'm including A4, A5, A6, A8, Q7... Have never heard of a V10 S or RS6 box fail either. V8 RS6s however (as above) munch them whenever they feel like (even as low as 20k).
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