Would a UR Quattro bankrupt me?
Discussion
I'm looking to get another fun car soon and am considering an MX5 as i've had 2 and know where I stand with them. BUT, i'm seriously hankering after a good UR Quattro.
If anyone could answer the following, i'd be very grateful:
Cheers.
If anyone could answer the following, i'd be very grateful:
- How much will a good one set me back?
- Will I need to refurb the diffs for such an old car? If so how much?
- How much do they cost to run for ~4,000 miles a year?
- Will it be covered by a classic insurance policy?
- What are they like to drive?
Cheers.
Combover said:
I'm looking to get another fun car soon and am considering an MX5 as i've had 2 and know where I stand with them. BUT, i'm seriously hankering after a good UR Quattro.
If anyone could answer the following, i'd be very grateful:
Cheers.
Hmm. Go to www.quattroforum.com and ask those guys - they really know their stuff. Also look here for a truly comprehensive guide. I'll tell you about mine though if you like...If anyone could answer the following, i'd be very grateful:
- How much will a good one set me back?
- Will I need to refurb the diffs for such an old car? If so how much?
- How much do they cost to run for ~4,000 miles a year?
- Will it be covered by a classic insurance policy?
- What are they like to drive?
Cheers.
I've had my 1990 RR (the 20-valve one) for three years and before getting it I'd convinced myself I was getting into a moneypit, but Yertis (off PH) put my mind at rest. It started off as very much a second car, weekends only, never used in the rain, low annual mileage, etc, etc. Then I started using it every weekend because, well, why not (and I liked people stopping me at petrol stations to ask about it).
Eventually it just sort of took over. I got rid of my main car and use the Quattro almost all the time. I have a little Citroen for whizzing around town, but the tank does many, many miles. I might get hit by a bus tomorrow, so why not enjoy it?
It's fairly thirsty (22mpg), but that's its only real expense. Everything else is as you'd expect for a car that's 18 years old and has covered 185k miles - general consumables on any car, really.
On RRs things don't seem to go wrong. It's from that wonderful era when German cars were spectacularly over-engineered. You just need to keep an eye on everything and change the oil regularly (<5000 miles). I know the WRs have certain idiosyncrasies that are making them harder to run, but RRs are pretty modern in most respects.
Pay as much as you can afford. Cheap ones are cheap for a reason, as with any old car - and a cheap Quattro is a very, very scary proposition. 4WD, diff locks, digidash, turbo, injection; the potential for expense is vast. There are guys out there who know what to look for and offer an inspection service. See quattroforum.com.
Diffs? Erm, should be fine, I guess.
For 15k miles per annum mine costs a set of tyres, three services and an MOT. This year's MOT was only its second failure ever and cost the princely sum of £530 to sort out (rear calipers, a few brake pipes, wipers, random odds and ends and labour), which is bugger all.
Classic insurance no problem and very cheap, but then mine's only £300 for regular comprehensive.
How they drive depends which you get - MBs and RRs have the Torsen centre diff, so the handling is genuinely great. People who don't know will tell you they understeer, but you've got to learn to drive it properly. The steering feel is superb and if you get on the throttle early enough they hang on incredibly well - I feel the Torsen working in mine as it chucks power to the rear.
Every single time I drive mine it makes me smile. All these years after it was built it really is still great. And those arches still look fab.
Buy one and you'll be hooked. Next stop for me will be 400bhp and carbon wings, bonnet, A2 wing, etc, etc...
Edited by Ahonen on Tuesday 29th January 00:16
I owned a 1988 MB engined quattro for nearly 10 years and it didnt bankrupt me, however they are not cheap to run or keep on the road (in tip top condition). You need to maintain it regular and not wait for things to break, they also dont like to be stood around for long periods either. They do need a certain amount of looking after, as the later ones are at least 16 years old, oldest ones are 27 years old.
I did 70k miles in mine over 10 years (22k in the first year of my ownership) and it never let me down once, in total if i remember correctly it cost me around 7-8k pounds in bills for servicing and maintenance and i did maintain it to a high standard. Ive heard scary stories of people having to put new engines in them and paying upward of 5k for it, be gentle with that engine and turbo just ensure its warmed up correctly before you start "giving it what for".
If you get one, enjoy it for what it is, they are great cars, but treat them with respect, they deserve it.
I did 70k miles in mine over 10 years (22k in the first year of my ownership) and it never let me down once, in total if i remember correctly it cost me around 7-8k pounds in bills for servicing and maintenance and i did maintain it to a high standard. Ive heard scary stories of people having to put new engines in them and paying upward of 5k for it, be gentle with that engine and turbo just ensure its warmed up correctly before you start "giving it what for".
If you get one, enjoy it for what it is, they are great cars, but treat them with respect, they deserve it.
They won`t bankrupt you. They are fairly cheap to own and run. I use my few as a second "toy" cars. Filling the 90 ltr tank up can be a shock.
They only real issue is the spares availablity. Audi have discontinued many items, exhaust manifolds, rear lights, brake parts to name a few.
They only real issue is the spares availablity. Audi have discontinued many items, exhaust manifolds, rear lights, brake parts to name a few.
philip walker said:
They won`t bankrupt you. They are fairly cheap to own and run. I use my few as a second "toy" cars. Filling the 90 ltr tank up can be a shock.
Thay are fine cars to drive, can still have a turn of speed against modern cars. The dynamics are a dated but then they were designed almost 30 years old.
They only real issue is the spares availablity. Audi have discontinued many items, exhaust manifolds, rear lights, brake parts to name a few.
Thay are fine cars to drive, can still have a turn of speed against modern cars. The dynamics are a dated but then they were designed almost 30 years old.
They only real issue is the spares availablity. Audi have discontinued many items, exhaust manifolds, rear lights, brake parts to name a few.
philip walker said:
They won`t bankrupt you. They are fairly cheap to own and run. I use my few as a second "toy" cars. Filling the 90 ltr tank up can be a shock.
They only real issue is the spares availablity. Audi have discontinued many items, exhaust manifolds, rear lights, brake parts to name a few.
Go get one but make sure its a good'un, youll never regret or forget it!!They only real issue is the spares availablity. Audi have discontinued many items, exhaust manifolds, rear lights, brake parts to name a few.
I wish i had never sold mine now
Definately won't bankrupt you as long as you are sensible - they do need servicing and looking after a bit. You can't ignore them and I have had more niggles with mine since I stopped using it as my every day car some years ago. Great cars, though nd definately will not be getting rid of mine. An MB version is probably the best compromise between reliability, spares availability, cost and handling (Torsen Diff).
My very strongest advice is that you talk to Roger Galvin at the quattro workshop near Lutterworth - Google for quattro workshop - he has several for sale and will sell you a good one, without it breaking the bank. Roger is the technical secretary of the quattro owners club, as well as making his living from them, but what he does not know about quattros is not worth knowing; he is the only person that I will trust to look after my car.
My very strongest advice is that you talk to Roger Galvin at the quattro workshop near Lutterworth - Google for quattro workshop - he has several for sale and will sell you a good one, without it breaking the bank. Roger is the technical secretary of the quattro owners club, as well as making his living from them, but what he does not know about quattros is not worth knowing; he is the only person that I will trust to look after my car.
How about this?
http://dealerservices.autotrader.co.uk/GetDealer.d...
ETA there's a white one for sale on AutoTrader a few miles away from me....
http://dealerservices.autotrader.co.uk/GetDealer.d...
ETA there's a white one for sale on AutoTrader a few miles away from me....
Edited by Combover on Tuesday 29th January 18:28
Buy a bad one and it'll bankrupt you. Buy a vaguely decent one and it'll bankrupt you too. Get anything you seriously want to buy inspected by an expert. There are very few real UR experts in the UK though, ROger Galvin as mentioned above, and Phil Payne are two that come to mind as doing inspections. QST may do them too but quattros aren't their bread and butter any more.
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/AUDI...
how about this one? Ireally have no idea if i'm getting a good deal or not. Please help!
how about this one? Ireally have no idea if i'm getting a good deal or not. Please help!
Combover said:
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/AUDI...
how about this one? Ireally have no idea if i'm getting a good deal or not. Please help!
I think you have hit the nail on the head there. These cars will vary in costs because they are worth what you are willing to pay for them because there are no other cars quite like the original quattros.how about this one? Ireally have no idea if i'm getting a good deal or not. Please help!
All I can suggest is going to visit the car and giving it a thorough once over and if it looks good, part with the cash.
Firstly you need to look at what variant this is: WR, RR, MB? I cannot for the life of me remember what years they were produced over but this will give you a rough indication of price and obviously the condition/history will then give you an idea of what you should pay for it.
Oh and don't get caught up with "Has it got a full service history?" like alot of the guys do because that holds very little water. What you want is to find an owner who has stacks and stacks of receipts and invoices like the previous owner of my S2.
77,000 miles in pretty low for a car like that too.
All IMHO, but there are quattros and quattros. These are old cars and a bad one can cost a packet so as all have said the secret is not to buy a lemon. The RR 20V is the quattro to have if you have the budget, but you will pay £12k plus for a nice one.
I ran an MB 10V for 4 years up to 140,000 miles and whilst not exactly cheap to run, it certainly didnt bankrupt me.
Why an MB? It was cost effective against a 20V at around half the price. Also you get a few worthwhile improvements over the WR 10V in driveability with less lag, a watercooled turbo for longevity and slightly better brakes (but still not amazing to be honest).
IMHO a quattro compares well even today in terms of driving pleasure. The handling remains superb, the engine is characterful and pulls well and the lines are timeless. They are also suprisingly practical with genuine room for 4. I carted a drum kit round in mine. Insurance has always been reasonable and 20-25mpg is not unusual.
Best advice is to do your homework before taking the plunge. Choose a good one, find a specialist to look after it and enjoy one of the most charismatic cars ever made
I ran an MB 10V for 4 years up to 140,000 miles and whilst not exactly cheap to run, it certainly didnt bankrupt me.
Why an MB? It was cost effective against a 20V at around half the price. Also you get a few worthwhile improvements over the WR 10V in driveability with less lag, a watercooled turbo for longevity and slightly better brakes (but still not amazing to be honest).
IMHO a quattro compares well even today in terms of driving pleasure. The handling remains superb, the engine is characterful and pulls well and the lines are timeless. They are also suprisingly practical with genuine room for 4. I carted a drum kit round in mine. Insurance has always been reasonable and 20-25mpg is not unusual.
Best advice is to do your homework before taking the plunge. Choose a good one, find a specialist to look after it and enjoy one of the most charismatic cars ever made
Been using my late WR as a daily driver for the last 4 years (35K miles). Not stupidly expensive to run and as it gets daily use I seem to get none of the niggly issues the summer use only ones seem to get. Long run I get mid to high 20s mpg, round town low 20s. I do a couple of oil changes a year, and check it over once a month and fix what needs doing before it goes wrong. It's not the easiest of cars to work on but it's not as bad as often made out either.
Mines going to have a bodywork freshen up this year as it's started to show it's age a bit, mechanically speaking it's fine at 160K miles. I did what was recommended, looked at one, then got it professionally checked. It needed a few bushes and had the cost to replace knocked off the asking price.
My main problem now is not knowing what to replace it with if the time came!
Mines going to have a bodywork freshen up this year as it's started to show it's age a bit, mechanically speaking it's fine at 160K miles. I did what was recommended, looked at one, then got it professionally checked. It needed a few bushes and had the cost to replace knocked off the asking price.
My main problem now is not knowing what to replace it with if the time came!
TheRealWilf said:
My main problem now is not knowing what to replace it with if the time came!
Easy: Keep it.
Otherwise you'll regret it when it's gone. I replaced my MB with an S2 and whilst it was a better car on paper, I still missed the original. Give it a few weeks with this new Ashes to Ashes TV show and I predict renewed interest in Ur quattros. To the OP, get a nice one before the prices go up!
They do like to rust. Some bits are galvanised, not, some plastic, some not, and there's no real rhyme or reason to it, these parts being varied from car to car. For example, the bonnet on my 20valve got very rusty, whereas the bonnet on my WR is quite evidently galvanised.
I think it's a shame its going to be famous again, all the wrong people will get into them for a while until they lose interest and move along again.
I think it's a shame its going to be famous again, all the wrong people will get into them for a while until they lose interest and move along again.
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