RS4 Vs CSL,what do you think ???
Discussion
It is exactly what i would expect from a RS4 avant against the CSL.
weight is everything and this is comparitively like an elephant and a gazelle
interesting to see what would happen if you put an elise/exige in there too to take the less power less weight thing another step.
I know the debate has been raging over on the CSL forum but those two cars are so completely different. Try tying them back to back and see which one drags which back down the runway
weight is everything and this is comparitively like an elephant and a gazelle
interesting to see what would happen if you put an elise/exige in there too to take the less power less weight thing another step.
I know the debate has been raging over on the CSL forum but those two cars are so completely different. Try tying them back to back and see which one drags which back down the runway
what about - the RS4 vs CSL vid or the Elise? ...I can confirm Ive been on quite a few trackdays with CSLs on track and high power Elise/Exiges (Audi/Honda engined cars)and they dont come past ...I also have competed in club sprints against them and they are way behind an Elise/Exige - 800Kg and 220-300bhp is a bit different to souped up 3 series (but then again, you cant get 4 people in an Elise
..that vid looks a bit odd to me though - on paper at least up to a ton the RS4 and CSL are evenly matched..to walk away from it like that it would have to have a lot more power to make up for the what 200kg weight difference?
just to add - a 220bhp S1 or S2 Elise is about 9-9.5 to a ton - a good couple of seconds up on a CSL ..with 300bhp you are into low 8's to the ton
..that vid looks a bit odd to me though - on paper at least up to a ton the RS4 and CSL are evenly matched..to walk away from it like that it would have to have a lot more power to make up for the what 200kg weight difference?
just to add - a 220bhp S1 or S2 Elise is about 9-9.5 to a ton - a good couple of seconds up on a CSL ..with 300bhp you are into low 8's to the ton
Edited by bogie on Thursday 8th March 07:27
bogie said:
what about - the RS4 vs CSL vid or the Elise? ...I can confirm Ive been on quite a few trackdays with CSLs on track and high power Elise/Exiges (Audi/Honda engined cars)and they dont come past ...I also have competed in club sprints against them and they are way behind an Elise/Exige - 800Kg and 220-300bhp is a bit different to souped up 3 series (but then again, you cant get 4 people in an Elise
..that vid looks a bit odd to me though - on paper at least up to a ton the RS4 and CSL are evenly matched..to walk away from it like that it would have to have a lot more power to make up for the what 200kg weight difference?
just to add - a 220bhp S1 or S2 Elise is about 9-9.5 to a ton - a good couple of seconds up on a CSL ..with 300bhp you are into low 8's to the ton
Bit optimistic there bogie. No way a 220bhp Elise/Exige will crack 10secs. to 100mph. Lotus are only claiming 9.8 for the forthcoming 275bhp ExigeGT3! The Exige 240R managed a 10secs. dead. ..that vid looks a bit odd to me though - on paper at least up to a ton the RS4 and CSL are evenly matched..to walk away from it like that it would have to have a lot more power to make up for the what 200kg weight difference?
just to add - a 220bhp S1 or S2 Elise is about 9-9.5 to a ton - a good couple of seconds up on a CSL ..with 300bhp you are into low 8's to the ton
Edited by bogie on Thursday 8th March 07:27
Edited by Pugsey on Thursday 8th March 14:16
Edited by Pugsey on Thursday 8th March 14:16
no its not optimistic at all ..there are vids floating about with Elises doing sub 9's - Im talking about an S1 or S2 Elise with 220bhp+ - remember these weigh sub 800kgs ..the new Toyota engined Elise/Exiges weigh 860-960Kg ..a 220bhp S1/S2 car is as quick (if not quicker) than a 240R as they are 100-150kg lighter
Edited by bogie on Thursday 8th March 14:44
bogie said:
no its not optimistic at all ..I can get you datalogs and vids if you want - Im talking about an S1 or S2 Elise - remember these weigh sub 800kgs ..the new Toyota engined Elise/Exiges weigh 860-960Kg ..a 220bhp S1/S2 car is as quick (if not quicker) than a 240R as they are 100-150kg lighter
Didn't realise there'd been such eating of pies going on at at Lotus - I guess you're prob. right re 0-100 times then! ought to add, that GT3 Exige, with all the cage, big wheels and new clams will probably be close to 1000kg...thats why Lotus arnt claiming its any faster than the 220 S Exige ...compared to a series 1 Elise at 750kg ish in road trim, thats a big difference.
There are around 200 Elises/Exiges in the UK now with Honda/Audi engines in there running 220/250/300/330bhp ...all of which are quicker than anything thats coming out of the factory...due to weight gain of the new cars, with ABS, airbags, leccy windows, Yota engines etc.
There are around 200 Elises/Exiges in the UK now with Honda/Audi engines in there running 220/250/300/330bhp ...all of which are quicker than anything thats coming out of the factory...due to weight gain of the new cars, with ABS, airbags, leccy windows, Yota engines etc.
I was amazed that a £60,000 special built, poorly equiped, light weight, 2 door, 2 wheel drive coupe was only slightly faster than a £50,000 mass produced, fully equiped, 5 door, 4 wheeldrive, lard arse estate. BMW 
Shame on you.
I can't understand why the BMW boys are so pleased with this video. We have a BMW and an Audi and I'm not biased to one make or the other, but that CSL was built to do nothing, but go fast. And it's price tag was from years ago, when it was built, so god knows what it would cost in 2007.
Shame on you. I can't understand why the BMW boys are so pleased with this video. We have a BMW and an Audi and I'm not biased to one make or the other, but that CSL was built to do nothing, but go fast. And it's price tag was from years ago, when it was built, so god knows what it would cost in 2007.
My neighbour has a CSL and I have a saloon RS4. Maybe I should test it all out for you guys? Just need a runway to do it on.
In all honesty the figures and my experience of being up against an M3 show that the RS4 is slower but not by as much as in the video. I would say the guy in the CSL just kicked down a couple of gears and the RS4 stayed in the gear he was already in.
In all honesty the figures and my experience of being up against an M3 show that the RS4 is slower but not by as much as in the video. I would say the guy in the CSL just kicked down a couple of gears and the RS4 stayed in the gear he was already in.
It's all irrelevant. I don't care which is a few tenths faster. The CSL only comes as an automatic (yesyesyesyes...SMG II/Formula one/old fashioned/shut up/blahblah) and the RS4 comes with a lovely manual 'box; and not even a fuzzy and foolproof one for retards - it's tricky to use smoothly and assumes you've a clue. For me that makes the RS4 a driver's car I'd consider, and the CSL something I ordered and then cancelled my order on when it became apparent that it, despite its undoubted ability, was more focussed on the serious business of marketing and technology show-casing than putting a smile on your puss. Unfortunately, with a load of excess weight and 4WD, the RS4 isn't for me either - but if I had to, it's be the one I'd choose.
I have the info from one source:
Stock 2003 BMW M3 CSL - 13.210 @ 110.200 [www.dragtimes.com/BMW-M3-Timeslip-4001.html]
0-60: 4.8
Stock 2007 Audi RS-4 Quattro - 13.210 @ 109.010 [www.dragtimes.com/Audi-RS-4-Timeslip-9478.html]
0-60 MPH: 4.6
0-100 MPH: 11.1
0-150 MPH: 27.8
It could make sense the the CSL is quicker. The above figures are based on saloon v saloon. The RS4 saloon weighs 1650 kg's the Avant weighs 1710 kg's. The audi's traction will aid a quicker 0-60 but will not help when rolling which is favourable to the BMW. I guess the avant is less slippy through the air????
Stock 2003 BMW M3 CSL - 13.210 @ 110.200 [www.dragtimes.com/BMW-M3-Timeslip-4001.html]
0-60: 4.8
Stock 2007 Audi RS-4 Quattro - 13.210 @ 109.010 [www.dragtimes.com/Audi-RS-4-Timeslip-9478.html]
0-60 MPH: 4.6
0-100 MPH: 11.1
0-150 MPH: 27.8
It could make sense the the CSL is quicker. The above figures are based on saloon v saloon. The RS4 saloon weighs 1650 kg's the Avant weighs 1710 kg's. The audi's traction will aid a quicker 0-60 but will not help when rolling which is favourable to the BMW. I guess the avant is less slippy through the air????
Edited by drewtastic on Friday 16th March 11:46
grizz said:
my mates 200 bhp si elise is faster to 100 than my 505bhp rs6 .... 
Going on Evo's information, your car is around 270hp / tonne approx 189 WHP / tonne with 30% drive train loss. A 200hp S1 is around 250hp / tonne approx 200Whp with 20% drive train loss.
it goes a little way to explaining your findings
Edited by Drewtastic on Saturday 17th March 21:46
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