RE: Porsche poised to take over VW

RE: Porsche poised to take over VW

Thursday 15th February 2007

Porsche poised to take over VW

Legal wall around VW is ready to tumble


Bugatti Veyron: still a VW
Bugatti Veyron: still a VW
Porsche is about to take control of VW -- but Bugatti and Lamborghini appear safe from sell-off.

In 1960, the Volkswagen Law was passed that gave the company unique protection from take-over by placing a limit on voting shares and putting members of local government, Lower Saxony, on the board. But now Lower Saxony has given up opposing the EU-sponsored moves to remove this law, which was ruled illegal this week by the advocate general to the European Court of Justice.

What this means is that the law is almost certain to be repealed, and Porsche, the company's second-largest shareholder with an almost 30 per cent holding, will take the chairmanship and a third seat on VW’s supervisory board. Porsche owns 27.4 per cent of VW and is authorised by its board to buy up to 29.9 per cent.

It's personal too. The man opposing Porsche, Christian Wulff, is the premier of Lower Saxony and has frequently has opposed VW chairman Ferdinand Piëch's governorship of the company. He even once attempted to get him removed. But with Piëch's recent ousting of his opponents on the VW board, Wulff has given up.

This means Piëch, who also owns a controlling share of Porsche, can retain his chairmanship of VW. It also means Porsche doesn't actually need to buy more VW shares, since it effectively has control.

What it doesn't mean, however, is that VW will sell off its luxury sports car brands in favour of Porsche. Piëch appointee Martin Winterkorn, now chief executive of VW and previously the head of VW's Audi division, told German newspaper Suddeutsche Zeitung that VW had learned a lot from the engineering efforts of Bugatti in particular, as the Veyron went through its well-publicised and prolonged gestation pains.

This applied especially to aerodynamics. "A jumbo jet takes off at 250kmh, whereas a Bugatti remains safely on the ground at 400kmh," said Winterkorn.

The engineering know-how gained via this process means VW is unlikely to sell off the two marques, despite potential pressure from Porsche to be the sole top-end brand in the VW group.

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

59 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
This applied especially to aerodynamics. "A jumbo jet takes off at 250kmh, whereas a Bugatti remains safely on the ground at 400kmh," said Winterkorn.

genius

Luca1973

11,126 posts

255 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
So Porsche might well end up owning Lotus. It's funny old world.

fidgits

17,202 posts

234 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
fbrs said:
This applied especially to aerodynamics. "A jumbo jet takes off at 250kmh, whereas a Bugatti remains safely on the ground at 400kmh," said Winterkorn.

genius

you can tell he didnt do aerodynamics at school

adycav

7,615 posts

222 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
fidgits said:
fbrs said:
This applied especially to aerodynamics. "A jumbo jet takes off at 250kmh, whereas a Bugatti remains safely on the ground at 400kmh," said Winterkorn.

genius

you can tell he didnt do aerodynamics at school


Aah, but what if they were on a conveyer belt?

paperbag

brotherharry

260 posts

288 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
The conveyor belt would need a special key to be inserted before it could run that fast.

ram rod

15 posts

242 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
Exactly how many independant car companies are there now?

havoc

30,659 posts

240 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
brotherharry said:
The conveyor belt would need a special key to be inserted before it could run that fast.


rofl

Ram Rod - Toyota, Honda and BMW are IIRC the only three mainstream ones*. Fair few niche manufacturers still.



* Are Subaru still linked with GM?

alock

4,281 posts

216 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
This will mean that it will be easy for >95% or Porsche vehicles to comply with the new EU CO2 regulations. All Porsche Polo's, Golf's etc... will have a nice low CO2. A few top end models such as the Boxter and 911 will then be exempt because as a whole Porsche is complying.

brotherharry

260 posts

288 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
On a serious note, this is stark evidence that applying Toyota Production System practices to manufacturing results in a massive competitive advantage. The turnaround Porsche have produced since they adopted TPS practices is phenomenal. From almost bankruptcy and one model, to acquiring control and 30% of a mass market manufacturer. Contrast that with the difficulties faced by Ford/GM etc and the impact is black and white. Granted those guys had massive operations and culture to shift, oil tankers to Porsche's sunseeker, but the brutal facts have been on the wall for decades now.

nisman

55 posts

267 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
brotherharry said:
On a serious note, this is stark evidence that applying Toyota Production System practices to manufacturing results in a massive competitive advantage....


BrotherHarry makes a valid point but isn’t, I think, quite correct. Every volume car manufacturer, and many low volume ones, applies the “Toyota Production System” or “Lean Manufacturing” throughout their production and their supply chain. It’s applied in many other industries too.

Toyota made their “secret weapon” public decades ago and has still maintained their lead! You can read about it in “The Machine That Changed the World: The Story of Lean Production” by Womack and Jones, (available from your favourite on-line book seller for as little as £4 ; )

The large American corporations are hampered by many things including “turning the oil tanker” as you say. Another is huge and unforeseen pension liabilities.

Porsche has succeeded by continuously proving and improving and improving a desirable product though motor racing and selling it at substantial margins. Selling thousands of Cayennes to the Americans has helped too!




Edited by nisman on Thursday 15th February 12:56

alexkp

16,484 posts

249 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
Quite a turnaround eh? In a little over ten years Porsche has gone from being on the edge of collapse to this - someone deserves a bonus!

It is, as someone has already pointed out, a funny old world...

rumplestiltskin

1,084 posts

227 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
Whoever signed off the Boxster - that car pretty much saved Porsche.

R.

mark3man

244 posts

216 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
rumplestiltskin said:
Whoever signed off the Boxster - that car pretty much saved Porsche.

R.

.....and was made in a completely different way and different place to 'normal' Porsches
FOW from me too (funny old world....!)

paulie-mafia

3,321 posts

228 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
Hands up if you wish you were Ferdinand Piech? Controlling stake in Porsche and Chairman of VW? Uber rich and holder of some of the world's biggest, most historic and desirable motoring marques.

I bet he has a smile on his face every morning when he wakes up!



brotherharry

260 posts

288 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
nisman said:
Toyota made their “secret weapon” public decades ago and has still maintained their lead! You can read about it in “The Machine That Changed the World: The Story of Lean Production” by Womack and Jones.

Great book. Good story about the a sensei taking a chainsaw to a parts warehouse shelving system in Porsche's home turf.

nisman said:

Every volume car manufacturer, and many low volume ones, applies the “Toyota Production System” or “Lean Manufacturing” throughout their production and their supply chain. It’s applied in many other industries too.


I know Ford and other manufacturers have applied these practices, and in Womack and Jones, they illustrate some of those initiatives. One can only assume that applying and embedding into your culture are two different things. Porsche have succeeded at the latter, whilst the others (it would seem) have not. Be interesting to hear of anyone on the inside of modern vehicle manufacturing with a view on this, particularly as the book is now a decade old.

nisman said:
Porsche has succeeded by continuously proving and improving and improving a desirable product though motor racing and selling it at substantial margins. Selling thousands of Cayennes to the Americans has helped too!


Dream team of great processes, great product and I suspect fanatical, passionate and deeply skilled workforce

trenchtown

147 posts

224 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
ram rod said:
Exactly how many independant car companies are there now?


It depends on your definition of independant; do they need to build their own engine or are they allowed to buy crate engines?

Ever since the big mothers started outsourcing all kinds of components, smaller companies were able to have make their own cars for reasonable prices... So if you look at it that way, there are tons of smaller companies out there, as opposed to twenty years ago.

Would you consider Fisker an independant company? Are they a car brand?

What about Ascari (they uses BMW engines). And Pagani uses AMG tuned Mercedes engines...

Hell, Lotus uses a variety of outhouse engines...

nickfrog

21,732 posts

222 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
Aren't Peugeot truly independant ? (and unreliable...)

loveice

651 posts

252 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
So, on paper VW is and will still be owned by itself. But in theory Porsche has the say on VW. Am I right??? Either way, Adolf Hitler must be laughing now. Let's see, VW now has Audi, Porsche, Lambo, Bugatti, Bentley, Seat, Skoda, Lotus(near future). Have I missed any?

paulie-mafia

3,321 posts

228 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all
BMW are independent IIRC - owned by the Quandt family.

flashygee

127 posts

216 months

Thursday 15th February 2007
quotequote all

The Story its not really exactly.
Porsche must take Control VW,and i will say why.
VW had many probs to sell the Cars-the Cars are to
expensive with to much Technology onboard.
(I speak about Germany,the Headmarket for VW).
The German Economy isnt the best at these Time.
And we are not alone.
Many Peoples have no Jobs,Big Companies close his
Doors to produce his Products in Asia or Eastern Europe.
Many Peoples here are unemployed with no Chance to find
a new Job in Germany.
And the Normal Worker are the Customer of VWs looks like Golf
Polo etc.
These Development of the Economy was not good for VW.
And not to forget the Bad management of VW.
The headowner of VW are the Government of Lower Saxony and the
Sheiktum of Abu Dhabi and many small Investors(Piech).
The Begin of the Story why Porsche must take Control VW is the
Touareg/Cayenne.
Abu Dhabi has Spend the Money to Develop the Touareg and
Porsche too in this Joint Venture Project.
The Touareg/Cayenne is Built outside Germany in
Bratislava/Czech.
The Law to save VW against a Sell out is only on the Paper.
As the probs with VW began,would Lower Saxony sell out his
ownership to Abu Dhabi.
This means VW would in the Hand of the Sheikstate.
Porsche would stop that.
And Abu Dhabis plan was,to build a new Touareg.
But thats a prob for Porsche.
His Cayenne has the Touareg Chassis/Parts etc. and is more
a Sucess as the Touareg.
And a Development of a new SUV is expensive,and the another
side is no one knows what for plans has Abu Dhabi with VW
or the Touareg Production.
(I remember on the TVR/Rover Story in UK).
Porsches Plan is it to have the Full Control over VW without
Abu Dhabi and without Lower Saxony.
Porsche meets many Resistance with his plans.
Is it better for the German Economy?
I dont know,we must wait what the Future brings.