R8 v. 911 This weeks Autocar.
Discussion
Predictably, fractionaly aloof compared to 997 BUT all things are reletive. Massive grip and stability through quicker corners but -and here's the suprise - a real tail slider with two-stage TC turned off! They gave the nod to the 911 as a 'drivers car' but only just and I get the feeling that might have been because they felt they should to show they're enthusiasts. Also they used a C2S whereas they should have used a C4S which is itself not quite as pure a driving tool as the C2S. Ho hum journos eh? All in all I think they were v. suprised and makes positive reading if you're getting one.
Edited by Pugsey on Wednesday 24th January 15:00
whoami said:
Pugesy,
thanks for the heads up.
I am currently in a C2S so was looking forward to the comparision.
As you say, no real surprise that they gave the nod to the 911.
I am currently deciding between GT3, R8 or AMV8............
and I'm stuck!
Blimey - join the incredibly good taste club! I'm two months into my 997GT3 after an AMV8 and have got an early R8 coming. After that lot I'll probably still be none the wiser re. preference - they're so different. V8 Roadster too in early summer will mean a difficult decision - Aston or R8? Have you got orders in for any of these. I guess all but the AM will prove hard to get if you haven't? thanks for the heads up.
I am currently in a C2S so was looking forward to the comparision.
As you say, no real surprise that they gave the nod to the 911.
I am currently deciding between GT3, R8 or AMV8............
and I'm stuck!
If I hadn't done the GT3 thing I'd go for a 997GT3 --- it won't be an expensive car to own.
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
ChrisW. said:
If I hadn't done the GT3 thing I'd go for a 997GT3 --- it won't be an expensive car to own.
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
I dont think M3 CSL was a v expensive mistake, its a well regarded car, and that is worth something.
R8 is going to be hyped initially - all cars by the big manufacturers are, this is the relationship journos have with the big names.
It will be THE fun and interesting new car for a while, but i personally think the Aston is the better style choice, 911 better drivers car.
articm said:
ChrisW. said:
If I hadn't done the GT3 thing I'd go for a 997GT3 --- it won't be an expensive car to own.
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
I dont think M3 CSL was a v expensive mistake, its a well regarded car, and that is worth something.
R8 is going to be hyped initially - all cars by the big manufacturers are, this is the relationship journos have with the big names.
It will be THE fun and interesting new car for a while, but i personally think the Aston is the better style choice, 911 better drivers car.
Re. the relationship between journos/manufacturers I only have direct experience of EVO and would certainly anticipate that any test they do will be completely indepedent.
I'm lucky enough to be in a 997GT3 currently and to have done the AMV8 thing so I'm looking forward to trying the R8 - life's too short and there are too many cars too try to bother about 'brand loyalty' IMO!
Edited by Pugsey on Saturday 27th January 10:35
Pugsey said:
articm said:
ChrisW. said:
If I hadn't done the GT3 thing I'd go for a 997GT3 --- it won't be an expensive car to own.
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
I dont think M3 CSL was a v expensive mistake, its a well regarded car, and that is worth something.
R8 is going to be hyped initially - all cars by the big manufacturers are, this is the relationship journos have with the big names.
It will be THE fun and interesting new car for a while, but i personally think the Aston is the better style choice, 911 better drivers car.
Re. the relationship between journos/manufacturers I only have direct experience of EVO and would certainly anticipate that any test they do will be completely indepedent.
I'm lucky enough to be in a 997GT3 currently and to have done the AMV8 thing so I'm looking forward to trying the R8 - life's too short and there are too many cars too try to bother about 'brand loyalty' IMO!
Edited by Pugsey on Saturday 27th January 10:35
id say do the R8 for sure. If youve got the money lying around, and you get on the list early its actually suprisingly cheap to buy and own a car like this for 3m and sell on - IF you pick the right car/spec and sell private after.
Not comparing R8 to CSL, someone brought it up as a BWM mistake. Was pointing out that it is highly regarded as a car, and so regardless of financial sucess on its own, is a successful halo model.
Agree EVO are good guys, but wouldnt say the same about some other mags.
The thing about the R8 tho is, the V8 is soon to be eclipsed by the V10. Wld have prefered them to bring out the V10 first.
Its great that we are getting more good and genuine choices to Ferrai and Porsche. I'd expect BWM to have something pretty exciting along in this sector soon too with the M5 engine.
Pugsey said:
whoami said:
Pugesy,
thanks for the heads up.
I am currently in a C2S so was looking forward to the comparision.
As you say, no real surprise that they gave the nod to the 911.
I am currently deciding between GT3, R8 or AMV8............
and I'm stuck!
Blimey - join the incredibly good taste club! I'm two months into my 997GT3 after an AMV8 and have got an early R8 coming. After that lot I'll probably still be none the wiser re. preference - they're so different. V8 Roadster too in early summer will mean a difficult decision - Aston or R8? Have you got orders in for any of these. I guess all but the AM will prove hard to get if you haven't? thanks for the heads up.
I am currently in a C2S so was looking forward to the comparision.
As you say, no real surprise that they gave the nod to the 911.
I am currently deciding between GT3, R8 or AMV8............
and I'm stuck!
ps - poll of the three cars here - and some good pics of them all in white
http://my.is/forums/showthread.php?t=
articm said:
ChrisW. said:
If I hadn't done the GT3 thing I'd go for a 997GT3 --- it won't be an expensive car to own.
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
I dont think M3 CSL was a v expensive mistake, its a well regarded car, and that is worth something.
R8 is going to be hyped initially - all cars by the big manufacturers are, this is the relationship journos have with the big names.
It will be THE fun and interesting new car for a while, but i personally think the Aston is the better style choice, 911 better drivers car.
If you had bought an M3CSL for £60k, and had dealers trying to get rid of new cancelled orders at £45k within less than a year, in brand management terms wouldn't you have described this as a disaster ?
And, what are they buying now ? Not BMW --- they are buying Porsche GT3's. I wonder why ?
So, for Audi this is a defining moment, and the R8 is a defining car, but they must manage the market to ensure that they don't suffer the BMW M3CSL disaster.
ChrisW. said:
articm said:
ChrisW. said:
If I hadn't done the GT3 thing I'd go for a 997GT3 --- it won't be an expensive car to own.
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
AMV8 ? Beautiful but fragile ?
R8 could just be the way forward for me --- but the Evo review will be the king maker.
And financially, it's up to Audi to manage build volumes over the life of the car ....
M3CSL was a very expensive mistake for BMW. It could be argued that as an end of line one-off production run they boxed themselves in, but they were too greedy. They should have built half the quantity and really qualified the market at £59k, or reduced the price to the mid "forcast" price of £49k. But, they generated a new raft of customers for Porsche GT3. Which is why there should be anRS version of the Cayment with a lower capapcity GT3 motor, and the 997GT3 facelift needs a 3.8 --- 4.0l being the service ceiling for this motor.
Come on Audi, show us what you can do !
I dont think M3 CSL was a v expensive mistake, its a well regarded car, and that is worth something.
R8 is going to be hyped initially - all cars by the big manufacturers are, this is the relationship journos have with the big names.
It will be THE fun and interesting new car for a while, but i personally think the Aston is the better style choice, 911 better drivers car.
If you had bought an M3CSL for £60k, and had dealers trying to get rid of new cancelled orders at £45k within less than a year, in brand management terms wouldn't you have described this as a disaster ?
And, what are they buying now ? Not BMW --- they are buying Porsche GT3's. I wonder why ?
So, for Audi this is a defining moment, and the R8 is a defining car, but they must manage the market to ensure that they don't suffer the BMW M3CSL disaster.
yes good point - i've never owned an M3 CSL, but have talked about it many times with mates. My thoughts were that it got in reviews against cars in the class above the M3 and did well (price excluded). THe CSL at new prices will have burnt some guys, but overall BMW prob sold more standard M3s.
Remember Clarkson shouting about the CSL on Topgear - away from the forums there is a LOT of fickle money put down by guys who dont know much about cars, and will have wanted an M3 after that.
If i asked the guys on my floor with M3s the difference between it and the CSL, most wouldn't have a clue.
On residuals - what is the premium now for the AMV8 - on Fifth Gear they were talking about 20k at least for the next 12 months. The car to me had a much greater first impression than the R8 - hype does not last long.
My understading is that AMV8's have gained a reputation for fragiity.
At one time there were 50 secondhand cars for sale.
I reckon if you wanted one, you could find a new 2007 car at list and on a short delivery time. If you wanted to wait and contacted a broker, you could buy at list less quite a lot.
Yes the AMV8 is a beautiful car, but once AM is sold the Jag XK8R will probably be available with a manual gearbox, and many think the Jag to be the better car, but of course with a lesser badge.
Audi are really hungry for Porsche credentials --- R8 is the vehicle. I reckon (and hope) that they will do it.
At one time there were 50 secondhand cars for sale.
I reckon if you wanted one, you could find a new 2007 car at list and on a short delivery time. If you wanted to wait and contacted a broker, you could buy at list less quite a lot.
Yes the AMV8 is a beautiful car, but once AM is sold the Jag XK8R will probably be available with a manual gearbox, and many think the Jag to be the better car, but of course with a lesser badge.
Audi are really hungry for Porsche credentials --- R8 is the vehicle. I reckon (and hope) that they will do it.
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