Mk2 Golf GTi vs Mk3 VR6 vs Corrado vs Mk3 16v GTi

[Chris71]

Assuming there was enough budget for any of them, however, you can only find a realistic 2007 purchase - no 10,000 mile Mk2's or anything which one would it be?

The main emphasis is on something completely reliable - this is strictly for use as an everday car, come rain, snow etc and will have to live outside.

The only golf I've ever driven is a diesel, but I would guess based on what I've heard before that the summary would be,

Mk2 GTi - the purest drivers car, but also the most fragile
Mk3 Gti 16v - the least driver orientated, but reliable and generally sensible
Mk3 VR6 - good in a straight line, presumably handles like a mk3 GTi? Thirsty
Corrado - Possibly the best alrounder, but interstellar mileages and twice the cost

Is this correct? Probably not! Can someone who actually know s a bit about them comment?

Chris.

[Neil_Bolton]

Chris71 said:

Mk3 Gti 16v - the least driver orientated, but reliable and generally sensible

Who says that?

Reliable, Sensible. Yes

Least driver orientated? Compared to a Corrado or the Mk2 perhaps, an Elise certainly, but more fun that you realise.

Anyone who knows me, knows I raved on about my Mk3 GTI 16v, and spent many an hour flinging it sideways at the Vmax events, to the point our resident Tiff Needell (TrackDemon) was gagging to take her out and play.

Yes, they are heavier than the Mk2, however its more comfy, more refined, and much safer than the Mk2.

Add in that it really punches above its weight, and will hold onto a standard VR6 (JonRB can vouch for mine being swift) - I firmly believe out of the three, the Mk3 16v is the best choice.

With the Golf VR6, its simply too juicy on fuel, too heavy up front, and not all that much quicker (although sounds the bollox).

I may be biased, but mine never let me down, and entertained me and many others for not a lot of money

[00161wj]

Get a corrado vr6. Brother had one when he was 18. I fukin loved it. Was about 12 at the time though. Never been in one since.

[Chris71]

A mate had a Corrado VR6 for a while .....ironically for a few years where I virtually lost touch with him, so I've only heard it raved about and never actually been in one.

Thing is decent Corrado's seem to be £5000 plus and you could probably get one of the best mk3 GTi's in the country for half that!!

As for the Mk3 comment - virtually everybody it seems, but it doesn't mean I necesarily believe them I've seen a video of someone off PH (possibly you, Neil?) driving one very spiritedly on an airfield day, plus I'd have the money left over to get a really good example and maybe change the dampers and bushes at the same time.

One of my colleagues has a (slightly tweaked) golf VR6 which he seems to think very highly of, but personally (looking at the specs on paper atleast) I'm not sure if it's enough of an increase over the standard Mk3 to justify the fuel bills and added complexity if something goes wrong. That said, the only time I've driven that volkswagen V6 was in a galaxy and even then it sounded good!

(edited for my creative sppeeling)

Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 24th January 15:39

[Neil_Bolton]

Chris71 said:

A mate had a Corrado VR6 for a while .....ironically for a few years where I virtually lost touch with him, so I've only heard it raved about and never actually been in one.

Thing is decent Corrado's seem to be £5000 plus and you could probably get one of the best mk3 GTi's in the country for half that!!

As for the Mk3 comment - virtually everybody it seems, but it doesn't mean I necesarily believe them I've seen a video of someone off PH (possibly you, Neil?) driving one very spiritedly on an airfield day, plus I'd have the money left over to get a really good example and maybe change the dampers and bushes at the same time.

One of my colleagues has a (slightly tweaked) golf VR6 which he seems to think very highly of, but personally (looking at the specs on paper atleast) I'm not sure if it's enough of an increase over the standard Mk3 to justify the fuel bills and added complexity if something goes wrong. That said, the only time I've driven that volkswagen V6 was in a galaxy and even then it sounded good!

(edited for my creative sppeeling)

Edited by Chris71 on Wednesday 24th January 15:39

This one?

Theres also this one

I've heard only good things about the Corrado VR6, but they are pricey to insure because of parts and also hard to find.

Additionally a boss of mine had both a 16v and a VR6 and while he agreed that the VR6 sounded lovely and went very well, ultimately the more fun car out of two was the 16v. Fuel costs are a big thing too apparantly...

Edited by Neil_Bolton on Wednesday 24th January 16:33

[joelgti]

I have owned the following:
MK2 GTi: Awesome bargain hot hatch - fast enough most of the time, very cheap to run but feeling its age now especially with things like brakes and clutch on a day to day basis. Also not too many have power steering.
MK3 VR6: Test drove one a while back and was very disappointed. Standard spec they are very stodgy and feel heavy at the front end. Comfy car though for long distances. IMO do not compare to....
Corrado VR6: Punchier 190bhp engine, retro-cool looks (IMO) and lots have been well cared for. Ok - looking at £4K for a nice one, which will be more than the others but so much better a drive than a MK3. Generally well equipped and comfy if un modified. Better brakes and gearchange than the MK2 IMO also. Plus, you don't see many around. Fairly practical with room for 4 and a decent enough boot.

I've owned a 16v and a G60, not keen on the 16V, although handling sharp lacking in grunt (possibly as they are heavier than equivalent GTi 16v Golf). G60 feels just as fast as VR6 as most have been tuned to 180+ BHP, but not as luxurious as VR6 and earlier model so becoming increasingly hard to find.

Finally, don't be too worried about mileage. All of my 1990's VW's have had 100 - 170 K on the clock and have been very reliable. Just be sure to be picky when buying. SOme nice VR6's on the Corrado forum. www.the-corrado.net.

Hope this helps

[StevenJJ]

A timely topic. My previous car was a mk3 GTI 8v, my current a mk3 VR6 and last weekend I took a four hour round trip to look at a mk2 as a VR6 replacement.

The Corrado never really interested me and like you've pointed out are probably over-valued for what you get. I'd reluctantly include the mk2 in that category now as well judging by the amount of mk2's advertised at £1500-£2500 that are worth no more than £850 of anyones money. Be aware that 8v variants of all these cars you've mentioned are now very slow. I would not be inclined to believe that the 8v's or are more 'torquey' than any 16v equivalent at any point in the rev range although I will gracefully stand corrected if this is not the case. I havn't sampled a 16v mk3 but going from a nice handling 8v to the VR6 I think I'd recommend going down the 16v route for outright handling but the VR engine is still a very tasty unit with enough in reserve to do some motorway damage... on the sliproad up to 70 of course. Going back to the mk2's I'm interested in both the 8v and 16v although just to reiterate buying one of these for performance is probably going to be a disappointing experience and I'm beginning to think I'm fighting a losing battle trying to source a decent one.

Actually no help at all! Sorry!

[leonski]

Hi,
It's a hard decision, they all have their own merits and bad points. I have had loads of Mk2's and I would always recommend one, but as you have already heard, many are getting long in the tooth!...But don't let that put you off, as there are many good examples left. Personally, I would go for either a 16v or if you can find a good one, a G60, which for me was the best ever Mk2. All of them are fairly cheap to run (minus the chargers in the G60!)
I haven't owned a Mk3 so I can't really comment on ownership costs, but I have friends who have VR's and they like them but they all say the standard set up isn't too good and needs a major tweak to bring it up to the handling standards of the Mk2 or the Corrado, which I can recommend because I have owned one.
The Corrado is a great car, and I would recommend the VR, I know it hasn't got the classic Golf shape but it is unique in itself and definitely a classic. With the underpinnings of a Mk2 but with a more comfortable bahn storming ride, basically a more refined/modern car. The only down side I found was that the corrado wasn't that cheap to maintain, and parts/servicing were quite expensive....but for me it was worth it, great engine and fun to drive.

I can only suggest that you look at and test drive them all and if you can buy as original and as standard a car as possible.
Happy hunting!
Cheers
Leon.

[Chris71]

The corrado is tempting - I actually much prefer the looks of it to the golf and if they were a similar price it'd be a no brainer. I'm not sure I could justify spending twice the price on one though. They do seem a lot of money for a 15 year old FWD saloon-based coupe. There again, IIRC the evo summary read '+ everything - nothing' which is quite a recommendation. Bizzarely I found the insurance to be quite low - better than a MkII GTi I seem to remember and a lot lower than some other cars of similar performance. Finally - can someone remind me if they have folding rear seats and a hatch back? Would I be able to get the all important bike frame in the back without laying waste to the car?

Going back to golfs, I suppose the iconic status of the Mk2 16V appeals, but if I was to abandon my plans for an out and out sportscar and comprimise on a hot hatch I'd prefer to have one with ABS, air con and crucially low maintanence. I know they're a pretty good bet second hand, but surely the older they are (and the higher the mileage) even VWs will start to develope a few problems?

Anyone know any MPG figures for the various cars? It's not a huge problem if I'm narrowing it down to one car (as opposed to a fun car and a runaround) but don't want comedic running costs or stopping to fill it up every 150 miles (as a previous car did). I'm comparing them to a MG ZS V6 and Porsche 944 though so not expecting diesel-eurobox economy.

And, oh yes - Neil, it was the first one

[joelgti]

All corrado's should have 50/50 split rear seats. The boot is surprising good - I managed to fit 4 18" wheels in with the seats folded. Other accomlishments include 2x golf bags just in the boot. My other half drives a TT and considering they are similar in size, the rear legroom in a corrado is so much better.
As for mpg, my 16v did about 25mpg around town, and 30mpg on a run. However this does vary from car to car - mine was running rich. A VR6 gives similar figures to this but will fall if hooning. However VR6 models came with the larger 15 gallon tank, meaning range is somewhere around 400 miles or so. My golf gti 8v returned about 30 mpg on average, so pretty similar to the corrado 16v really.

[iguana]

Chris71 said:

Assuming there was enough budget for any of them, however, you can only find a realistic 2007 purchase - no 10,000 mile Mk2's or anything which one would it be?

The main emphasis is on something completely reliable - this is strictly for use as an everday car, come rain, snow etc and will have to live outside.

The only golf I've ever driven is a diesel, but I would guess based on what I've heard before that the summary would be,

Mk2 GTi - the purest drivers car, but also the most fragile
Mk3 Gti 16v - the least driver orientated, but reliable and generally sensible
Mk3 VR6 - good in a straight line, presumably handles like a mk3 GTi? Thirsty
Corrado - Possibly the best alrounder, but interstellar mileages and twice the cost

Is this correct? Probably not! Can someone who actually know s a bit about them comment?

Chris.

Owned 'em all, bit confused ref Mk2 a bit fragile? I'd say its the toughest of the lot & cheapest & simplist to fix, lots of snotters around tho, really really nice ones do still get good money tho, does feel its 25yr old design in NVH terms & dashboard that came out of Noahs ark, a few cheap mods & its still on a par with a clio 182 etc which isnt bad going.

Both Mk3s as bog standard are wallowy barges, & need aftermarket suspension, VR not leauges quicker than the 16v, is leauges worse on fuel tho. Mk3 16v woth peanuts now & perhaps the most cost effective all rounder as long as suspension is sorted, looks like a bland eurobox tho.

All are old cars now, forget what the magazines say, all depends on the example in question, some are fit for the scrapheap now, some with the right maintenance & care & mods are still glorious.

Corrado Vr is perhaps the 'best' of that bunch, a good VR6 corrado is a fine car, the market agrees as its worth the most, charger issues aside a g60 Corrado is a fine bit of kit tho, not got VR6 howl tho.

Not mentioned but 1.8T Mk4s are in same budget- well in fact under the budget of v nice Vr6 Corrados & really really nice Mk216vs, might suit you, easy chip for more power, same suspension issues as Mk3 tho & need sorting

[Chris71]

Cool.

So the general consensus is the 4 cylinder corrados are better balanced? How noticeable is this and how far down on the straightline performance of the VR6 are they?

Is there much mechanical similarity to the golf - I thought the Corrado was pretty much just a golf VR6 with a lower roof line, maybe this is unfair!!

400 miles is plenty - that way you'll have recovered from the first £50 fill up before you reach the next!

Oh, strange question - will I have enough ground clearance to mount a curb? Spend a lot of time in an area of north london which has these pavement-parking zones. Theres a guy with an M3 who manages it, so don't suppose it'd be a problem with regular springs on there. Slightly paranoid about bending the steering arms doing it though!!

[JonRB]

Neil_Bolton said:

JonRB can vouch for mine being swift

Indeed I can. You did a very creditable job of keeping up with the fast Corrado convoy and I won't pretend that I wasn't wringing every last rev out myself to keep up (although I was very heavily laden).

joelgti said:

All corrado's should have 50/50 split rear seats.

Blimey, should they? I guess the two Corrado VR6s I've had plus every leather-trimmed one I've ever seen must be wrong then as the seats are asymmetrically split with the central armrest on one side.
You're obviously thinking of the cloth interior ones without the central armrest in the rear.

Edited by JonRB on Thursday 25th January 10:55

[900T-R]

Chris71 said:

Cool.



Is there much mechanical similarity to the golf - I thought the Corrado was pretty much just a golf VR6 with a lower roof line, maybe this is unfair!!

The rear axle is actually from the Passat and to a large extent responsible for the Corrado's poise and agility.

edited 'cos I still can't type

Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 25th January 11:34

[iguana]

Chris71 said:

Cool.

So the general consensus is the 4 cylinder corrados are better balanced? How noticeable is this and how far down on the straightline performance of the VR6 are they?

Is there much mechanical similarity to the golf - I thought the Corrado was pretty much just a golf VR6 with a lower roof line, maybe this is unfair!!

400 miles is plenty - that way you'll have recovered from the first £50 fill up before you reach the next!

Oh, strange question - will I have enough ground clearance to mount a curb? Spend a lot of time in an area of north london which has these pavement-parking zones. Theres a guy with an M3 who manages it, so don't suppose it'd be a problem with regular springs on there. Slightly paranoid about bending the steering arms doing it though!!

4cyl balance, hmmm yes the vr lump is heavier but I don't really agree with the 4 pots are better balanced theory, its all down to the particular example you drive, a 4 pot on coilies & poly bushes vs vr on old worn 15 yr old suspension & bushes of course, but same the other way around, these are GT cars tho not darty pin sharp hatches, VR is 'perhaps' a softer spring rate as stock vs a 4 pot tho which maybe where the theory is from.

As standard a Vr is def the quickest, but a modded g60 not far off.

Corrado not really a sqashed Golf, nmore a sqashed Passat.

[JonRB]

iguana said:

Corrado not really a sqashed Golf, nmore a sqashed Passat.

I've always considered the Corrado to be essentially the Golf MkII floorpan with a mixture of Golf and Passat parts plus a load of bespoke stuff from Karmann. The latter is what makes it expensive to repair.

There's no comparing a Corrado VR6 and a Golf VR6 though - even the Golf boys would admit that (begrudgingly).

Edited by JonRB on Thursday 25th January 11:08

[Chris71]

To be honest, the G60 doesn't appeal that much - I'd like to go for a completely standard car (and many will have been tweaked) with relatively low maintanence (no superchargers to worry about!) and if I was to go for one of the hotter models I'd rather have the noise of the V6.

Could stretch to a decent corrado, but with a golf of this age I'd have plenty left over to spend on a new set of shocks and bushes even after buying a very good one.

So - we've established a Corrado would have the legs on a mark 3, what about a well maintained mk2 golf gti? (I'm thinking handling more than straight line oomph) Is the corrado that much better than the hatchbacks altogether, or just the stodgier mk3 gti's and VR6's? (I know that's a personal opinion, but still.....)

[paulrhodes]

I've got a half decent Corrado 16V. Its a bit miley at 135k but still feels fantastic. best of all is that I picked it up for £900. I've spent some money on suspension, 16" split rim wheels and good tyres and am just upgrading the brakes.

Oh yeah, I managed to source some Evo 6 RS seats (recaro's) for £200

So far the cost is about £1600 and its worth every penny. It gets looks like its worth 5 times the amount its cost me and is so much fun.

Pace wise, its not desperately quick but with my mate in his Elise following me, he was quite surprised that it didn't hold him up too much (his words not mine).
I'm doing a few cheapo engine mods soon and should still be below the 3k marker.

If you can find a good one then a great buy.

[Chris71]

Whats the performance like on the 16v corrado? Any idea how it compares to a golf 16v?

I want something with reasonable motorway pace (but any one of these should be able to loose you your license, so that's largely irreleevant!) and a good 40-60 sort of pace to overtake the sunday drivers. Not really too worried about three figure bragging rites though, it could be geared for a top speed of 90 for all I care!

Hmmm.....

[iguana]

Chris71 said:

Whats the performance like on the 16v corrado? Any idea how it compares to a golf 16v?

....

well for the 1.816v its the same engine, just in a heavier body, tho it is more areodynamic, & at 3 figures area & above acellerates a tad more spritely than the postman pat van shaped Golf.

2.016v Corrado not really quicker than 1.816v as stock, soft cam is the issue, can change it tho & does make a diference, KE injection on 2.0 is a tad unloved (not same as mk3 Golf, digi or the 1.8 corrado/Golf 16v k jet, personally id rather have 1.8 with 2 lite block & kr (1.8) head than a 2.0

Corrado is cable change tho, vs Golfs rod box, cable boxes are a bit love or hate, most are a bit baggy now & soft engine mounts dont help, pull away hard in 1st & have no more gears for a second or two! I personally prefer rod (0ooerr!) but you can get a good change out of cable.

Ive tracked & 'ringed & been to Poland & back in a stock 16v Corrado (drove back 1300 odd miles in one hit & could still walk! & 100-120mph a lot of the way) all fine, they are no rocket ship tho, nicer long distance criuser than a Mk2 tho.

What you really want is a properly sorted Vr Mk2 lovely jubbly & dont belive the horrors that they dont handle, well sorted ones are better handlers than my 4 pot screamer track car 16v.

Edited by iguana on Thursday 25th January 20:58