RE: VW cleans up the oilburner

RE: VW cleans up the oilburner

Friday 5th January 2007

VW cleans up the oilburner

Lowest emissions in the world, claims VW


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Volkswagen claims to have produced the cleanest ever turbo-diesel engine.

According to Wolfsburg, first test drives show reduced nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions. In the Jetta a new 2.0-litre common rail diesel engine with a NOx reservoir catalytic converter was used, which complies to the Californian emission standard ‘Tier 2 / Bin 5’, the most stringent worldwide. Four other US states -- Massachusetts, New York, Vermont and Maine -- are also mandating limits of NOx emissions to 70 mg per mile.

VW engineers used new emission post-treatment technology with the result of 90 per cent lower NOx. The first production run of the ‘Clean TDI’ with NOx post-treatment system will be made during 2008 in the USA.

Standards compliance meant the development of new emission treatment technology, so VW came up with two new systems connected to the oxidation catalytic converter and the particle filter in the exhaust system.

New NOx reservoir catalytic converter technology is currently being tested for car models below the Passat class. Nitrogen oxide is absorbed like a sponge, leading to a high level of efficiency. As with the particle filter, the system is regularly cleaned without driver intervention. To do this, the engine management system changes operation modes for a few seconds.

Larger and heavier models feature the Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) catalytic converter. The central element is an aqueous solution such as AdBlue, which is transported in an additional tank made from stainless steel or plastic. Urea comprises 32.5 per cent of this solution, which is continuously injected into the exhaust system in front of the SCR catalytic converter using a metering valve. The dosage is made according to the gas emission stream.

The urea solution is finely atomised by a grille and is converted in hot exhaust gas into ammonia before it reaches the catalytic converter. The ammonia then reacts with the nitrogen oxide in the catalytic converter and separates it into nitrogen and water. Unlike pure ammonia, AdBlue solution is non-toxic, odourless and biodegradable. Volkswagen intends to install the additional tank so that the car can be driven without maintenance between services. US regulations mandate that the system must be fully functional for at least 150,000 miles.

BlueTec is a joint project between Volkswagen, Audi and DaimlerChrysler, and is intended to establish the diesel engine further in the American car market. The manufacturers are convinced that the diesel engine is the clean, low-consumption alternative for future car use, which is backed up by current economic and political conditions. Each of the manufacturers involved in the BlueTec joint project is working on individual technical solutions for stringent exhaust gas emission standards and plans to market these independently.

Author
Discussion

gezkc

Original Poster:

157 posts

216 months

Friday 5th January 2007
quotequote all
Article said:
The urea solution is finely atomised by a grille and is converted in hot exhaust gas into ammonia before it reaches the catalytic converter.

Are they taking the piss? wobble

oppressed mass

217 posts

288 months

Friday 5th January 2007
quotequote all
Article said:
Nitrogen oxide is absorbed like a sponge


Hmmmmmconfused

crbox

461 posts

238 months

Friday 5th January 2007
quotequote all
Ironic, how Calofornia has the worlds most stringent vechicle emmission standards , yet the US Goverment won't commit to the Europe led, world-wide reduction in greenhouse gases initiative.





Edited by crbox on Friday 5th January 12:53

grumbledoak

31,749 posts

238 months

Friday 5th January 2007
quotequote all
crbox said:
Ironic, how Calofornia has the worlds most stringent vechicle emmission standards , yet the US Goverment won't commit to the Europe led, world-wide reduction in greenhouse gases initiative.


Not really. Though the greenies try to conflate the two, air pollution and CO2 emissions are very different issues.

Mr Whippy

29,474 posts

246 months

Friday 5th January 2007
quotequote all
And how many nasties are created in the manufacture and servicing of these components over time?

Yes sir, your 5 year old £5000 car won't pass it's MOT, the exhaust has gone, it will be £1000 for a new one.

How many cars will end up on the junk pile at 7 years old because it's no longer viable to keep them running.

Hmmmm, time will tell

Dave

vpinto

51 posts

289 months

Friday 5th January 2007
quotequote all
Mr Whippy said:
And how many nasties are created in the manufacture and servicing of these components over time?

Yes sir, your 5 year old £5000 car won't pass it's MOT, the exhaust has gone, it will be £1000 for a new one.

How many cars will end up on the junk pile at 7 years old because it's no longer viable to keep them running.

Hmmmm, time will tell

Dave


Around here (Portugal) the MOT is done accordingly to the legislation in place when the car was sold.

So a 20 years old car must comply to the legislation in place 20 years ago...

Of course that the new exhaust won't cost 20 years ago money

Mr Whippy

29,474 posts

246 months

Friday 5th January 2007
quotequote all
vpinto said:
Mr Whippy said:
And how many nasties are created in the manufacture and servicing of these components over time?

Yes sir, your 5 year old £5000 car won't pass it's MOT, the exhaust has gone, it will be £1000 for a new one.

How many cars will end up on the junk pile at 7 years old because it's no longer viable to keep them running.

Hmmmm, time will tell

Dave


Around here (Portugal) the MOT is done accordingly to the legislation in place when the car was sold.

So a 20 years old car must comply to the legislation in place 20 years ago...

Of course that the new exhaust won't cost 20 years ago money


Of course, but I'm thinking in 5 years time when thousands of these cars are sold and using the roads, and the owners are unaware that the exhaust is a residual time bomb... a component that likely offsets it's cleanliness by existing in itself!

I'm sure we can make cars totally clean in every way, but it's likely that the contraptions created to achieve such a feat ultimately generate as much if not more muck than the vehicle would emmitt had it not bothered in the first place.

Dust to dust emmissions and eneergy usage really needs to apply to emmissions and efficiency legislation. What is the point in making cars emmissions cleaner if production and servicing becomes dirtier...

Pretty sure road side levels of rare metals are thousands of times higher than anywhere else simply because of cars with catalytic coverters blowing them out everywhere... clearly a side effect "pollutant" that will probably in time be seen as a bad thing.

Dave

drags06

454 posts

216 months

Friday 5th January 2007
quotequote all
Nothing new this. Volvo have been messing around with pigs piss injection (that is what is used mainly!) for a while now. All the new Trucks have the 'Blue tank' fitted now and it MUST be used or it is illegal to use the Truck! Euro emission crap gone mad!! nerd

rotarykid

63 posts

228 months

Saturday 6th January 2007
quotequote all
Here in the US we have a climate that is against high mpg diesel lite duty transport . We have loads of stupid regs which high mpg diesels find it extremely hard to get past . While low mpg vehicles like the big 3 are so good at building are welcomed and allowed to spew tons of CO & CO2 ???? Makes no sense to me other than just greed .

NOx is regulated with extreme regs in the US . It really on makes sense if you take into account the fact that the big 3 don't sell any vehicles that have to comply with the new EPA NOx regs . The big 3 don't want any European high mpg vehicles to be allowed to be sold here to compete head to head with their 10 to 15 mpg US crap . They know having a lot full of European 40 to 50 mpg US cars next their lot full of 10 to 15 mpg US junk would spell their end .


VW is the only car company that has continued to try to sell high mpg diesels here . And being the only seller of 40 to 50 mpg US diesels in the US hasn't been cheap or easy . Every time they jump through the EPA hoops successfully the US government increases the restrictions . It has happened 3 times in the last 10 years . In 2006 Model year VW has sold 1/3 of their US fleet with diesel power .

I commend VW & MB/Chrysler for once again achieving what the regulators thought for sure no one ever would , I believe . In the US by 2010 diesels & gasoline powered vehicles must meet the same standard .

swisss

112 posts

228 months

Saturday 6th January 2007
quotequote all
Well done VW. I'm sure you will need to make back the dev. cost via your loyal customers eek but I for one will gladly pay just or the mental image I now have of a hacked off bent regulator in the US trying to explain it to his low MPG pimps.

james f

841 posts

218 months

Saturday 6th January 2007
quotequote all
will still sound like a tractor never owned an diesel never nor have my folks apart form the farm stuff bio fuel is the only way forward imo or just get rid of cars and buses all togher and planes for that matter i know it sounds loony but i think we would all be happier if we slowed down and didnt worry so much

winstar

110 posts

227 months

Saturday 6th January 2007
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
crbox said:
Ironic, how Calofornia has the worlds most stringent vechicle emmission standards , yet the US Goverment won't commit to the Europe led, world-wide reduction in greenhouse gases initiative.


Not really. Though the greenies try to conflate the two, air pollution and CO2 emissions are very different issues.


In fact in alot of cases meeting the lower NOx emissions will mean that an engine will use more fuel and produce more CO2

rotarykid

63 posts

228 months

Monday 8th January 2007
quotequote all
"[quote=will still sound like a tractor never owned an diesel never nor have my folks apart form the farm stuff bio fuel is the only way forward imo or just get rid of cars and buses all togher and planes for that matter i know it sounds loony but i think we would all be happier if we slowed down and didnt worry so much ]"

Think about it this way , 350 to 400 miles in your vehicle on a 20 US gal tank of gasoline ,

Or that same car with a high tech computor controlled very powerful direct injection turbodiesel with that same 20 US gal tank filled with bio-diesel or petro diesel will travel 1,000 + miles .

astrsxi77

302 posts

226 months

Monday 8th January 2007
quotequote all
"Volkswagen claims to have produced the cleanest ever turbo-diesel engine."

Bit like saying BNFL has found the cleanest ever way to dump nuclear fuel rods, or BAe have produced the world safest missile.

Just requires an additional tonne of tanks and piping and will presumably stop working effectively after 150,000 miles. Probably won't even be a legal requirement in Europe for at least a decade so plenty of time for us to suffer the health effects of the diesel boom.
It's the future. Just imagine the new Golf mk6 GTi fitted with one of these: 1560kg, 310Ib ft torque, 240bhp, 5200 rpm red line, size of a small van....yep, can't wait.

nel

4,793 posts

246 months

Monday 8th January 2007
quotequote all
"New NOx reservoir catalytic converter technology is currently being tested for car models below the Passat class. Nitrogen oxide is absorbed like a sponge, leading to a high level of efficiency. As with the particle filter, the system is regularly cleaned without driver intervention. To do this, the engine management system changes operation modes for a few seconds."

Don't really understand this - what is the net change to emissions then? It sounds like the NOxes are stored in the "reservoir" of the catalytic converter, then periodically the engine management system changes mode and dumps all the Noxes that have been stored. Well what was the point the of collecting it in the first place then, or is the regenerate cycle releasing oxygen and nitrogen instead of NOx?