Corrado VR6 in this month's EVO
Discussion
This is what they actually wrote:
"The Corrado VR6 [...] is remarkably effective considering its size, weight and the mass of that narrow-angle V6 in its nose. Thing is, although it is chunky by the standards of the day, it's a shock to see that even the new Clio 197 towers over it, and to discover that it's 100kg lighter than the current 4-pot Golf GTi.
It's quite a nose-heavy car, though, one that requires a little consideration on turn-in, even though it was one of the first cars to feature passive rear steer (special bushing allowing the rear axle to move more laterally and help steer the nose in). Fine traction allows the power to be fed in early, though the 2.9-litre engine isn't as torquey as you might expect.
'It resists understeer well', says Simiister. 'The steering feels slow at first but quickens on lock, and it exits bends cleanly unless they're very tight. It improves with speed and familiarity.'
Bovingdon hasn't driven one before and steps out impressed. 'It feels almost too grown-up at first, too mellow. Hardly any understeer, though, and it has a delicate, throttle-sensitive balance which you can use to keep everything neutral or indulge in quite big slides. A bit of a surprise.'"
Then, later, when summing up and deciding which cars to put into the top 5 and test more thoroughly...
"The Corrado won't be going to Wales either. 'Fast and fluid, but ultimately a little too clumsy to be a car to bond with initimately,' says Simister."
On balance I guess the main paragraphs aren't too bad. It's just the summing up quote from Simister that is a little upsetting I suppose as it is so dismissive and 'damning with faint praise'.
Still, I guess I'm just taking it too personally because I've owned my Corrado for so long and love driving it so much.
"The Corrado VR6 [...] is remarkably effective considering its size, weight and the mass of that narrow-angle V6 in its nose. Thing is, although it is chunky by the standards of the day, it's a shock to see that even the new Clio 197 towers over it, and to discover that it's 100kg lighter than the current 4-pot Golf GTi.
It's quite a nose-heavy car, though, one that requires a little consideration on turn-in, even though it was one of the first cars to feature passive rear steer (special bushing allowing the rear axle to move more laterally and help steer the nose in). Fine traction allows the power to be fed in early, though the 2.9-litre engine isn't as torquey as you might expect.
'It resists understeer well', says Simiister. 'The steering feels slow at first but quickens on lock, and it exits bends cleanly unless they're very tight. It improves with speed and familiarity.'
Bovingdon hasn't driven one before and steps out impressed. 'It feels almost too grown-up at first, too mellow. Hardly any understeer, though, and it has a delicate, throttle-sensitive balance which you can use to keep everything neutral or indulge in quite big slides. A bit of a surprise.'"
Then, later, when summing up and deciding which cars to put into the top 5 and test more thoroughly...
"The Corrado won't be going to Wales either. 'Fast and fluid, but ultimately a little too clumsy to be a car to bond with initimately,' says Simister."
On balance I guess the main paragraphs aren't too bad. It's just the summing up quote from Simister that is a little upsetting I suppose as it is so dismissive and 'damning with faint praise'.
Still, I guess I'm just taking it too personally because I've owned my Corrado for so long and love driving it so much.
Edited by JonRB on Monday 31st July 23:58
(I read the article last night) A corrado is never going to be a Clio Williams or a peugeot 205 GTI, it has too much weight over the front wheels. That however does not stop it from being a great car. I would much rather have a shed load of torque and a true 150 mph car than a whizzy noisy 16v shopping cart. Well that's not stricly too, I have both, an Audi S2 Coupe which is lardier than the corrado but also has more punch and a higher top speed. However I also have a MK2 16v Golf which is a completely different kettle of fish. You can throw the golf around with gay abandon, push it to the edge and drive it right up to the rev limit and really explore your own limits too. The Audi is far too big heavy and expensive to throw about, but the mid range punch in it is nothing short of histerical. I can be on full boost in forth at 100mph and it will leave every car in the EVO story for dead. I know which one I would rather have, but if EVO tested it they would probably slate it.....
Horses for courses.
Enjoy your VR6, it suits you. (sir!)
Cheers,
Steve.
Horses for courses.
Enjoy your VR6, it suits you. (sir!)
Cheers,
Steve.
Is it only me who was really miffed that the owners (especially the two VW offerings) didn't flipping ensure that their dampers and bushes had been replaced - it's never going to be fair on an older car if the thing is wallowing about all over the place trying to hang onto the back of a well driven new hot hatch.
Just for record, I've been up against a Mk5 GTI in my Mk3 GTI and although obviously mine gives away nearly 25% of power to the Mk5, it is interesting to note that through roundabouts we were level pegging - even doing simultanious oversteer out of the roundabouts as we lifted off to tuck them round. It was fun to compare - and the other owner obviously enjoyed it too with thumbs-up further down the road.
Additionally I know that my particular example can hold it with the VR6's so I was a little miffed that they didn't consider the Mk3 16v GTI - but I know that there is too much of a stigma attached to the Mk3 and it's weight.
Anyhoo, I really would like to try an Integra - I've now heard many many good things
Just for record, I've been up against a Mk5 GTI in my Mk3 GTI and although obviously mine gives away nearly 25% of power to the Mk5, it is interesting to note that through roundabouts we were level pegging - even doing simultanious oversteer out of the roundabouts as we lifted off to tuck them round. It was fun to compare - and the other owner obviously enjoyed it too with thumbs-up further down the road.
Additionally I know that my particular example can hold it with the VR6's so I was a little miffed that they didn't consider the Mk3 16v GTI - but I know that there is too much of a stigma attached to the Mk3 and it's weight.
Anyhoo, I really would like to try an Integra - I've now heard many many good things
neil_cardiff said:
Additionally I know that my particular example can hold it with the VR6's
Pah! We were going easy on you. 
Only joking. Everyone was trying hard although I think the fact that you were 1-up and lightly loaded and all of the VR6's were 2-up or in my case 3-up and heavily loaded did tip you a slight advantage on the old power-to-weight ratio front.
Good effort all the same though.
JonRB said:
neil_cardiff said:
Additionally I know that my particular example can hold it with the VR6's
Pah! We were going easy on you. Only joking. Everyone was trying hard although I think the fact that you were 1-up and lightly loaded and all of the VR6's were 2-up or in my case 3-up and heavily loaded did tip you a slight advantage on the old power-to-weight ratio front.
Good effort all the same though.
Yeah right, same old stories
Face it, you VR6 owners can't stand a GTI giving you a shoeing
I have a good mind to write to EVO!
They state that they considered the MK2 golf for inclusion but could not justify running three golfs.
Yet they have three peugeots and three Renaults Clios'
My 16v will happily keep up with Clio 172's as I found out the other day with side by side drag race
Personally I think the 16v MK2 is the ultimate Golf because it hs evolved from the MK 1 has a really powerful meaty engine and can be chucked around accurately and easily.
EVO, what do they know anyway!
Cheers,
Steve
They state that they considered the MK2 golf for inclusion but could not justify running three golfs.
Yet they have three peugeots and three Renaults Clios'
My 16v will happily keep up with Clio 172's as I found out the other day with side by side drag race
Personally I think the 16v MK2 is the ultimate Golf because it hs evolved from the MK 1 has a really powerful meaty engine and can be chucked around accurately and easily.
EVO, what do they know anyway!
Cheers,
Steve
I thought they were a bit mean on the Corrado - as if they didn't really drive it any distance. From the write up it seemed to drive better than the 205 at least, yet it was dismissed. But then, what was the Barchetta doing in the test in the first place? There's only so much objectivity you can ask for...
SJobson said:
I thought they were a bit mean on the Corrado - as if they didn't really drive it any distance. From the write up it seemed to drive better than the 205 at least, yet it was dismissed. But then, what was the Barchetta doing in the test in the first place? There's only so much objectivity you can ask for...
That was my thought too - only available in left hand? Then it should be ruled out - obviously not 'really' built for the UK market then is it?
I agree with the comment about the Mk2 16v GTI - If it handles better than my old Mk2 1.8GL (obviously) and has the same get up and go that my current Mk3 has, then I'm sure it'd be a great car.
However, I wouldn't like to like with one now I've experienced the comfort of the Mk3 - but then thats not what the test is about.
neil_cardiff said:
SJobson said:
I thought they were a bit mean on the Corrado - as if they didn't really drive it any distance. From the write up it seemed to drive better than the 205 at least, yet it was dismissed. But then, what was the Barchetta doing in the test in the first place? There's only so much objectivity you can ask for...
That was my thought too - only available in left hand? Then it should be ruled out - obviously not 'really' built for the UK market then is it?
I agree with the comment about the Mk2 16v GTI - If it handles better than my old Mk2 1.8GL (obviously) and has the same get up and go that my current Mk3 has, then I'm sure it'd be a great car.
However, I wouldn't like to like with one now I've experienced the comfort of the Mk3 - but then thats not what the test is about.
Neil, Trust me the 16v MK2 is a hoot. I wondered what all the fuss was about until I bought mine in Jan. Mine still needs chassis work as the shocks are past it and the bushes in need of replacement, but whoa what an engine. Imagine your car with 300 kgs less and a really pointy direct front end with loads of feel. They are lovely cars to thrash!
I know what you mean about the MK3 though. The wife has an 8v and it is sooo smooth compared to mine and much less noisy. A more comfortable and safe drive but not as much fun!
Cheers,
Steve
[quote=Fat Audi 80Neil, Trust me the 16v MK2 is a hoot. I wondered what all the fuss was about until I bought mine in Jan. Mine still needs chassis work as the shocks are past it and the bushes in need of replacement, but whoa what an engine. Imagine your car with 300 kgs less and a really pointy direct front end with loads of feel. They are lovely cars to thrash!
I know what you mean about the MK3 though. The wife has an 8v and it is sooo smooth compared to mine and much less noisy. A more comfortable and safe drive but not as much fun!
Cheers,
Steve[/quote]
Poly bushing mine and changing the CVs next week then off for 4 wheel alignment.
Can't wait to have my steering feel back
I know what you mean about the MK3 though. The wife has an 8v and it is sooo smooth compared to mine and much less noisy. A more comfortable and safe drive but not as much fun!
Cheers,
Steve[/quote]
Poly bushing mine and changing the CVs next week then off for 4 wheel alignment.
Can't wait to have my steering feel back
neil_cardiff said:
SJobson said:
I thought they were a bit mean on the Corrado - as if they didn't really drive it any distance. From the write up it seemed to drive better than the 205 at least, yet it was dismissed. But then, what was the Barchetta doing in the test in the first place? There's only so much objectivity you can ask for...
That was my thought too - only available in left hand? Then it should be ruled out - obviously not 'really' built for the UK market then is it?
I agree with the comment about the Mk2 16v GTI - If it handles better than my old Mk2 1.8GL (obviously) and has the same get up and go that my current Mk3 has, then I'm sure it'd be a great car.
However, I wouldn't like to like with one now I've experienced the comfort of the Mk3 - but then thats not what the test is about.
On that basis the Cadillac STS should have been in the test for having fwd with a V8 engine in RHD...
The Corrado made it into the article. Many 'favoured' cars, including the Ford ASBO, didn't. That in itself is a plus. The way I read it, it didn't disgrace itself, it was just outclassed by some exceptional cars (The top-4 are all classics in one way or another). And it was by no means last amongst the 15, making it probably top-10 fwd cars.
As for the Mk2 Golf...was it THAT different from the Mk1? The Clio's are all completely different cars.
As for the Mk2 Golf...was it THAT different from the Mk1? The Clio's are all completely different cars.
havoc said:
The Corrado made it into the article. Many 'favoured' cars, including the Ford ASBO, didn't. That in itself is a plus. The way I read it, it didn't disgrace itself, it was just outclassed by some exceptional cars (The top-4 are all classics in one way or another). And it was by no means last amongst the 15, making it probably top-10 fwd cars.
As for the Mk2 Golf...was it THAT different from the Mk1? The Clio's are all completely different cars.
As for the Mk2 Golf...was it THAT different from the Mk1? The Clio's are all completely different cars.
IMO the 16v Engine in the MK2 gives it a big performance gain. But them I am completely biased!
SJobson said:
It's not the LHD of the Barchetta I object to - it was officially sold here. It's simply that it's a chop top Punto which looks pretty, didn't get any particular plaudits when it was launched and continued to be produced because it was cheap to buy and had nice doorhandles.
Exactly - it's not that the Barchetta is bad in any way, but it's nothing special in the handling department, besides being in the same market as an MX-5 (at least it used to be) a keen driver would take that over it any day whilst for most others there's no suitable RWD/AWD alternative that outshines it in every important dynamic aspect. I know about a hundred more deserving FWD cars to be included, if the Barchetta made the cut the editors just haven't looked hard enough IMO.
Not knowing the complete list of 15 cars (will be another ten days at least before the issue arrives on these shores
) but reading there's three Clios, a couple of Peugeots, a Golf and a Corrado, as well as the 'Teg included leads me to believe evo has a rather shallow gene pool of favoured cars nowadays - flick trough the back pages of a Performance Cars issue and there's at least half a dozen other makes with a model worthy of consideration. Which is my biggest criticism I could direct at evo Towers anyways - somehow it's grown a bit narrow minded, samey and repetitive, time for new blood with alternative views on what makes 'the thrill of driving', then?900T-R said:
Not knowing the complete list of 15 cars (will be another ten days at least before the issue arrives on these shores ) but reading there's three Clios, a couple of Peugeots, a Golf and a Corrado, as well as the 'Teg included leads me to believe evo has a rather shallow gene pool of favoured cars nowadays - flick trough the back pages of a Performance Cars issue and there's at least half a dozen other makes with a model worthy of consideration. Which is my biggest criticism I could direct at evo Towers anyways - somehow it's grown a bit narrow minded, samey and repetitive, time for new blood with alternative views on what makes 'the thrill of driving', then?
) but reading there's three Clios, a couple of Peugeots, a Golf and a Corrado, as well as the 'Teg included leads me to believe evo has a rather shallow gene pool of favoured cars nowadays - flick trough the back pages of a Performance Cars issue and there's at least half a dozen other makes with a model worthy of consideration. Which is my biggest criticism I could direct at evo Towers anyways - somehow it's grown a bit narrow minded, samey and repetitive, time for new blood with alternative views on what makes 'the thrill of driving', then?The complete list (if I can remember them all) is:-
1-6 (in order)
Integra
Clio Trophy
Clio Williams
205 GTi
Cooper S Works GT
Golf MkV GTi
Rest (unknown order)
Elan
Barchetta
Corrado VR6
Golf Mk1
Clio 197
306 Rallye
106 GTi
Puma
Focus RS
And in all honesty I doubt there are many cars they missed worthy of inclusion...once you get bigger (and hence heavier), handling deteriorates. 8 marques (and distinct groups) isn't a bad level of variety. What other marques were you thinking of?
Saab? Forget it - all the fwd ones are recycled Vauxhalls and too large to be as good as the group above.
Vauxhall? I've not driven a fwd Vauxhall that's had a good chassis...ever!
Alfa? Possibly...they used to do some decent cars, but the last 'fun' small one was the Alfasud...and the game has moved a LONG way on since then. GTV more of a GT than a sports car.
Rover/MG? A little surprised the ZR wasn't there, as it's better to drive than you'd think. But not sure which of the above (bar Barchetta) I'd remove for it, so fair enough.
Fiat? FCT is a good car, but suffers from more torque steer than the Focus RS.
Volvo? Don't be silly.
Audi? Ditto.
SEAT? Leon Cupra again a mini-GT, not a sporty fun hatchback.
Skoda? See SEAT.
Citroen? Nah...too cheap.
Toyota? Always done better rwd.
Nissan? See Toyota
Mazda? See Toyota
Mitsubishi? Only fun ones are 4wd
Subaru? See Mitsi
Hyundai? Only now starting to get close. Coupe a GT, not a sports car.
US marques? FAR too heavy and clunky.
So...which FWD manufacturers are you thinking of then 900? Because I can't think of ONE car which was missing from that top-15 and not by one of the manufacturers already represented.
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