RE: Audi details race- winning diesel
Tuesday 28th March 2006
Audi R10 at SebringAudi has released more information about the remarkable diesel engine that powered its 641bhp R10 TDI into first place at the American 'Le Mans' at Sebring a couple of weekends ago. The 24-hour race saw the first race victory in a major event for a diesel-powered car.
Audi details race- winning diesel
New engine technology means better road cars
Audi R10 at Sebring
Audi sees the win as helping to publicise its diesel powered road cars of course, and claims that the technology lessons learned will make their way into them. Half of all road-going Audi sales are diesel-powered.
The 5.5-litre V12 powering the R10 TDI is, said Audi, the world’s first purpose-built diesel racing engine and the first Audi TDI to be built around an all-aluminium block -- a new departure that could very easily become a production reality. It features common rail fuel injection technology developed from the system used by V6 and V8 TDI engines in road-going A4, A6 and A8 models, and with the help of two Garrett turbochargers delivers a formidable 811lb-ft of torque. This prodigious output exerts more force on the five-speed sequential transmission than a Formula 1 engine does.
Regulations set by the Automobile Club de l’Ouest, organisers of the annual Le Mans 24-hour endurance race for which the R10 TDI has been principally created, stipulate that engine speeds must remain within the realms of production car performance, so the V12 TDI has a power band set between 3,000 and 5,000rpm. As a result, said Audi, power delivery is far more ‘real world’ than in many high-revving, highly strung race engines, meaning that there is far more scope for transferral of the technology needed to achieve it into a production TDI.
Discussion
runnersp said:
Is it just me or does a 2000rpm powerband sound a little small? What would other non-diesel competitor cars have?
Depends on the gearing. As long as you can keep it in the powerband and the gearbox/driver can handle frequent gearchanges then there should be no problem. I'd guess that (like production cars) the petrol racers in LM will run to 7-9k revs with the power band being 5-8k(ish). Presumably the diesel saves on fuel so fewer stops in 24hrs...
"the world’s first purpose-built diesel racing engine"
Not exactly true. Purpose built diesel engines have been designed from the ground up for offshore powerboat racing for many years. Infact the first 4 valve per cylinder diesel engine was an engine designed for powerboat racing. These engines now make in excess of 1350 Hp (at 3600 rpm) and torque you will never believe.
Not exactly true. Purpose built diesel engines have been designed from the ground up for offshore powerboat racing for many years. Infact the first 4 valve per cylinder diesel engine was an engine designed for powerboat racing. These engines now make in excess of 1350 Hp (at 3600 rpm) and torque you will never believe.
runnersp said:
Is it just me or does a 2000rpm powerband sound a little small? What would other non-diesel competitor cars have?
My understanding is that due to the huge torque produced this car has to make fewer gear changes as the torque itself is enough to drive it through even some of the tightest bends a gear above the petrol cars. Sounds good to me, and when do we get the R10 engine in an A3 TDi.
scoobiewrx said:
Is it just me or does a 2000rpm powerband sound a little small? What would other non-diesel competitor cars have?
My understanding is that due to the huge torque produced this car has to make fewer gear changes as the torque itself is enough to drive it through even some of the tightest bends a gear above the petrol cars. Sounds good to me, and when do we get the R10 engine in an A3 TDi.
A nose heavy Audi? That would never happen.
scoobiewrx said:
Is it just me or does a 2000rpm powerband sound a little small? What would other non-diesel competitor cars have?
My understanding is that due to the huge torque produced this car has to make fewer gear changes as the torque itself is enough to drive it through even some of the tightest bends a gear above the petrol cars. Sounds good to me, and when do we get the R10 engine in an A3 TDi.
Also probably why its only got 5 gears instead of the usual 6 or 7 for modern racing cars.
The fewer gear changes probably adds to the reduced fuel consumption which you would more than likely get with a diesel, a big bonus in endurance racing if you have to pit less.
runnersp said:
Right then. That's my powerband question answered. Here's another one: Is Diesel the way forward in motorsport? Its proved itself in endurance, but could such a thing as the Xsara WRC HDi for example ever exist?
good question..
personally if you were a truly clever marketing man at a manufacturer, you would defo be looking at running a diesel wrc car. perhaps 3.0d, with a less severe turbo restrictor. 330bhp and mahoosive torque.
it would be the 21st century equivalent of Audi's Quattro, in the wrc in the 1980's. which is why i can't fathom why audi have gone sports car racing, ok it'll be big news at le mans, but if your looking to sell cars, through providing an image or sporting credibility then rallying's the place to do it, look at subaru, peugeot (205), and Audi that went before.
3.0d turbo would defo be competitive, i'm thinking bmw 1 series, tricked up, with 3.0 d, should romp home..
runnersp said:
Is it just me or does a 2000rpm powerband sound a little small? What would other non-diesel competitor cars have?
I'm happy with my '2-4k'-ish powerband.
What's the powerband of an F1 . . . with tall gearing the drivers will drive in all comfort.
IMO next gen supercars could have diesels no problem. Driving on the flow of the turbo and on waves of torque is 'something else' compared to peaky petrolmills . . . Goodbye to good soundbytes though.
I think this was given a spot on Top Gear in 1999:
www.ltv-vwc.org.uk/wheelspin/ws_nov99/Diesel_rally.htm
"Volkswagen's revolutionary Golf turbodiesel rally car has just completed a hugely successful first season of competition in the British Rally Championship.
Not only did the Golf TDI, driven by Lancashire's Neil Simpson, win the championship's inaugural Diesel Cup but it also humbled some much more powerful petrol cars along the way...
Simpson's Sony and Pirelli-backed car is mechanically very similar to the petrol-powered Golf GTi with which Volkswagen claimed second place in the manufacturers championship, with the important exception that in place of the GTi's 20 valve, 280bhp 2 litre engine is a 1.9 litre TDI power unit, boosted by a Garrett turbocharger to give a maximum output of around 190bhp and torque of around 2601b ft."
I also seem to recall something about a diesel Westfield...CCC magazine, perhaps?
www.ltv-vwc.org.uk/wheelspin/ws_nov99/Diesel_rally.htm
"Volkswagen's revolutionary Golf turbodiesel rally car has just completed a hugely successful first season of competition in the British Rally Championship.
Not only did the Golf TDI, driven by Lancashire's Neil Simpson, win the championship's inaugural Diesel Cup but it also humbled some much more powerful petrol cars along the way...
Simpson's Sony and Pirelli-backed car is mechanically very similar to the petrol-powered Golf GTi with which Volkswagen claimed second place in the manufacturers championship, with the important exception that in place of the GTi's 20 valve, 280bhp 2 litre engine is a 1.9 litre TDI power unit, boosted by a Garrett turbocharger to give a maximum output of around 190bhp and torque of around 2601b ft."
I also seem to recall something about a diesel Westfield...CCC magazine, perhaps?
Theres a fair number of Volkswagen diesels that run in the VW cup in the UK including 2 Caddy Vans!. I had the pleasure of sweeping up after one of them after a huge tank-slapper resulted in a meeting with the tyre wall on the way out of camp corner at Combe last year.
One of the Golf TDi's entered in the CC Saloon cup later in the day and ran either in first or second place for the whole race, dicing with a race prepped Evo 8 for 12 laps. It was incredibly quick out of the bend - all that tourque I guess. Left the Evo behind out of the slow corners but was reeled in on the long straights. This is against a 4WD car remember.
Granted it did throw a hell of a lot of black smoke out of the back - to the point where the back of the car was pretty much black all over by the end, but the noise wasn't what I would call 'Tractor'. A deep, almost pulsing rumble and a lot of turbo whistle and pressure release on gearchanges.
One of the Golf TDi's entered in the CC Saloon cup later in the day and ran either in first or second place for the whole race, dicing with a race prepped Evo 8 for 12 laps. It was incredibly quick out of the bend - all that tourque I guess. Left the Evo behind out of the slow corners but was reeled in on the long straights. This is against a 4WD car remember.
Granted it did throw a hell of a lot of black smoke out of the back - to the point where the back of the car was pretty much black all over by the end, but the noise wasn't what I would call 'Tractor'. A deep, almost pulsing rumble and a lot of turbo whistle and pressure release on gearchanges.
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