2018 Audi S4 Atrocious Throttle Lag Remedy
Discussion
Hi lads,
I'm Tommy, new to the forums (lurked for many years) this is my first post.
After recently purchasing a new to me 2018 Audi S4 23k miles in excellent condition, I noticed a horrible throttle lag.
I have had cars with big turbos that took forever to spool, and this is definitely not turbo lag nor is it torque converter lag, this should reach peak torque of 500nm at 1370rpm.
You can be coming to a junction in D and you notice a gap, press the throttle and there will be a second of nothing and then it lurches forward, in S it is considerably better but by no means eliminated. A friend of mine who had a Golf 7 R talked about a similar experience in his car, perhaps VAG just map their throttle's like pudding for emissions?
It feels like the throttle pedal and the engine/gearbox are not connected, and you are pushing your foot into a mushy freshly baked cake.
I came from a F30 335D and although these cars use the same gearbox, it was night and day difference in terms of response. I wanted a M340i as I am a BMW man at heart, but for similar spec/mileage it was £7k more expensive than the Audi, so I just could not quantify spending that much more for a badge and a little more power.
The 335D's throttle response in D/Sport was just amazing, no lag, the engine and pedal felt connected.
The Audi is leaving me cold, frustrated and annoyed because coming from a car with such instant throttle response the experience is getting soured, as otherwise I am extremely happy with the Audi S4 in comparison to my old 335D, it is faster, better handling and the interior is night and day to the F series.
Is there anyone out there with a B9 S4/S5 who has experienced the same issue and is there a fix for this? I have heard of a Pedal Box as my friend with the Golf R was recommended one, however I am a bit sceptical to spend £200+ on something that may not fix the issue, as how would the box be able to change the mapping of the throttle to make it instant? Is it not coded in the ECU to open slowly?
I would highly appreciate any solutions (that don't destroy my CPO Audi Warranty), thanks!
I'm Tommy, new to the forums (lurked for many years) this is my first post.
After recently purchasing a new to me 2018 Audi S4 23k miles in excellent condition, I noticed a horrible throttle lag.
I have had cars with big turbos that took forever to spool, and this is definitely not turbo lag nor is it torque converter lag, this should reach peak torque of 500nm at 1370rpm.
You can be coming to a junction in D and you notice a gap, press the throttle and there will be a second of nothing and then it lurches forward, in S it is considerably better but by no means eliminated. A friend of mine who had a Golf 7 R talked about a similar experience in his car, perhaps VAG just map their throttle's like pudding for emissions?
It feels like the throttle pedal and the engine/gearbox are not connected, and you are pushing your foot into a mushy freshly baked cake.
I came from a F30 335D and although these cars use the same gearbox, it was night and day difference in terms of response. I wanted a M340i as I am a BMW man at heart, but for similar spec/mileage it was £7k more expensive than the Audi, so I just could not quantify spending that much more for a badge and a little more power.
The 335D's throttle response in D/Sport was just amazing, no lag, the engine and pedal felt connected.
The Audi is leaving me cold, frustrated and annoyed because coming from a car with such instant throttle response the experience is getting soured, as otherwise I am extremely happy with the Audi S4 in comparison to my old 335D, it is faster, better handling and the interior is night and day to the F series.
Is there anyone out there with a B9 S4/S5 who has experienced the same issue and is there a fix for this? I have heard of a Pedal Box as my friend with the Golf R was recommended one, however I am a bit sceptical to spend £200+ on something that may not fix the issue, as how would the box be able to change the mapping of the throttle to make it instant? Is it not coded in the ECU to open slowly?
I would highly appreciate any solutions (that don't destroy my CPO Audi Warranty), thanks!
I commiserate with you, this is known problem and my S6 has the same issue.
I have been through Audi with this, got an update which improved things for less than a week before it reverted back to its usual dim-witted behaviour.
I got in touch with TVS Engineering who do a driveability update for mine, they only have 2 dealers in the UK who can update tiptronic boxes, QST in Sussex is one. I haven't decided to get the update yet as getting rid of the car is foremost in my mind (the C8 platform is horrendous) and having a valid warranty helps this.
Best of luck but you should have spent the extra 7k.
I have been through Audi with this, got an update which improved things for less than a week before it reverted back to its usual dim-witted behaviour.
I got in touch with TVS Engineering who do a driveability update for mine, they only have 2 dealers in the UK who can update tiptronic boxes, QST in Sussex is one. I haven't decided to get the update yet as getting rid of the car is foremost in my mind (the C8 platform is horrendous) and having a valid warranty helps this.
Best of luck but you should have spent the extra 7k.
Edited by FMOB on Saturday 17th June 19:21
Edited by FMOB on Sunday 18th June 10:09
I know they're not performance vehicles but I've driven various different brand new VW vans (so VAG) for work and the throttle lag is ridiculous, you can put your foot down and its at least a full second before the engine actually responds.
They are actually quite torquey and pull well once going but that initial throttle lag is very noticeable.
They are actually quite torquey and pull well once going but that initial throttle lag is very noticeable.
It does seem to be a characteristic of the dsg.
I have it on my 1.5/150 and it's the same on various other models I've driven with different engines and the dsg.
I find I actually get better response by rolling on the throttle. You learn to work around it a bit, but it's always there.
Seems to be a combination of emissions mapping and the dsg which can only go down one gear quickly if its expecting it.
If you are accelerating the gearbox thinks you will likely need the next higher gear. If you want a lower gear there's a delay, particularly if it was about to change up.
I used to drive in S mode, but there is still the delay there too.
This article helped improve my use of the dsg:
https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/how-to-play-the-d...
The worst one can be 50-70, you are trying to merge and put your foot down... Nothing at all, you are left without drive while the gearbox shuffles around getting down to the lowest gear.
I have it on my 1.5/150 and it's the same on various other models I've driven with different engines and the dsg.
I find I actually get better response by rolling on the throttle. You learn to work around it a bit, but it's always there.
Seems to be a combination of emissions mapping and the dsg which can only go down one gear quickly if its expecting it.
If you are accelerating the gearbox thinks you will likely need the next higher gear. If you want a lower gear there's a delay, particularly if it was about to change up.
I used to drive in S mode, but there is still the delay there too.
This article helped improve my use of the dsg:
https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/how-to-play-the-d...
The worst one can be 50-70, you are trying to merge and put your foot down... Nothing at all, you are left without drive while the gearbox shuffles around getting down to the lowest gear.
Edited by Whataguy on Saturday 17th June 20:49
I’ve got a TVs map on my dsg, a DQ500, world of difference, but will get spotted if you need to make a warranty claim.
https://tvsengineering.com/nl
https://tvsengineering.com/nl
Whataguy said:
It does seem to be a characteristic of the dsg.
You need to be a bit careful when reading about this issue as it affects both DSG boxes and the Tiptronic boxes.The box in the S4 is the ZF8 which is Tiptronic and not a DSG box, sorting out a re-map of the Tiptronic box is a lot harder than the DSG.
The DSG is generally found in the Golf/A3 sized vehicles with the transverse engine, the Tiptronic is in the bigger platform vehicles i.e. A4/A6 which have the inline setup. This is not absolute as the DSG has been used in the A4 but they are completely different implementations of an automatic gearbox.
The fundamental issue is VAG are wrecking the gearbox performance because of emissions and everyone has a different opinion on how bad they think it is.
Yes, it's a shame that manufacturers are doing this. I've had loads of different hire cars from other makers and there is definitely software holding them back in some situations.
I had a tiptronic on my passat, which was a bit better than the golf dsg I currently have but wish we could still get decent torque converter autoboxes. I suppose its emissions forcing makers away from them.
I had a tiptronic on my passat, which was a bit better than the golf dsg I currently have but wish we could still get decent torque converter autoboxes. I suppose its emissions forcing makers away from them.
FMOB said:
You need to be a bit careful when reading about this issue as it affects both DSG boxes and the Tiptronic boxes.
The box in the S4 is the ZF8 which is Tiptronic and not a DSG box, sorting out a re-map of the Tiptronic box is a lot harder than the DSG.
The DSG is generally found in the Golf/A3 sized vehicles with the transverse engine, the Tiptronic is in the bigger platform vehicles i.e. A4/A6 which have the inline setup. This is not absolute as the DSG has been used in the A4 but they are completely different implementations of an automatic gearbox.
The fundamental issue is VAG are wrecking the gearbox performance because of emissions and everyone has a different opinion on how bad they think it is.
Interesting this thread. I have an a6 bitdi with the zf8 tiptronic box which i believe is used in the s/rs variants across the audi ranges and the lag pulling away at junctions is very noticeable. Pretty much makes all that extra power a bit redundant really!The box in the S4 is the ZF8 which is Tiptronic and not a DSG box, sorting out a re-map of the Tiptronic box is a lot harder than the DSG.
The DSG is generally found in the Golf/A3 sized vehicles with the transverse engine, the Tiptronic is in the bigger platform vehicles i.e. A4/A6 which have the inline setup. This is not absolute as the DSG has been used in the A4 but they are completely different implementations of an automatic gearbox.
The fundamental issue is VAG are wrecking the gearbox performance because of emissions and everyone has a different opinion on how bad they think it is.
My wife's m235 has similar power to the a6 and I appreciate its a petrol so power kicks in at lower revs, and is a lighter car but it is incredibly responsive. Amazing car really, the m240 must be pretty special, I know which one I would have chosen if I had a choice!
I've been toying with an engine remap to try and iron this issue out, but are people saying it ought to be a gearbox map that needs tweaking?
prand said:
Interesting this thread. I have an a6 bitdi with the zf8 tiptronic box which i believe is used in the s/rs variants across the audi ranges and the lag pulling away at junctions is very noticeable. Pretty much makes all that extra power a bit redundant really!
My wife's m235 has similar power to the a6 and I appreciate its a petrol so power kicks in at lower revs, and is a lighter car but it is incredibly responsive. Amazing car really, the m240 must be pretty special, I know which one I would have chosen if I had a choice!
I've been toying with an engine remap to try and iron this issue out, but are people saying it ought to be a gearbox map that needs tweaking?
TVS do engine and gearbox maps, they work really well together, pretty sure the dealers do a 30 day money back refund policy too.My wife's m235 has similar power to the a6 and I appreciate its a petrol so power kicks in at lower revs, and is a lighter car but it is incredibly responsive. Amazing car really, the m240 must be pretty special, I know which one I would have chosen if I had a choice!
I've been toying with an engine remap to try and iron this issue out, but are people saying it ought to be a gearbox map that needs tweaking?
prand said:
Thanks, will give them a shout! 
The UK Disti for TVS is Peron-Automotive, they will tell you only 2 of their dealers have the tools to update the ZF8 Tiptronic box i.e. QST in Sussex or CLP Automotive in Sheffield.Gearbox wise only the TCU driveability update is available for £300-400 and about an hour's work.
Please report back if you decide to update the box.
I'm starting to think I should've spent the extra 7k on the BMW...
What I don't understand is this is the same ZF 8HP box as my previous 335D and in the M340i, so it can't be a transmission issue.
This will be my last Audi due to this, and it is really such a shame because it is such a nice car otherwise, but driving is the most important part of a car lol 😆 and it is being ruined.
I am going to buy the PedalBox as a last ditch effort, if that doesn't fix it then I strongly think I'll wait for the right spec M340i and just finance the difference or something, this is really making me slowly loathe the car.
WHY would VAG ruin their cars like this!
I'd love to be at that engineering meeting...where they said let's make the car lovely inside, have a good reliable gearbox, nice powerplant but then absolutely ruin the driving experience.
BMW just gets it right.
Will report back on the PedalBox when it arrives from Germany, going to buy directly from DTE than DTUK as DTE give you 30 days to make up your mind.
What I don't understand is this is the same ZF 8HP box as my previous 335D and in the M340i, so it can't be a transmission issue.
This will be my last Audi due to this, and it is really such a shame because it is such a nice car otherwise, but driving is the most important part of a car lol 😆 and it is being ruined.
I am going to buy the PedalBox as a last ditch effort, if that doesn't fix it then I strongly think I'll wait for the right spec M340i and just finance the difference or something, this is really making me slowly loathe the car.
WHY would VAG ruin their cars like this!
I'd love to be at that engineering meeting...where they said let's make the car lovely inside, have a good reliable gearbox, nice powerplant but then absolutely ruin the driving experience.
BMW just gets it right.
Will report back on the PedalBox when it arrives from Germany, going to buy directly from DTE than DTUK as DTE give you 30 days to make up your mind.
Hi chaps,
Wanted to give those interested a review of the DTE PedalBox for the S4. I bought one last week, not convinced at all. In city, the increased pedal response does not really eliminate the lag from throttle tip in, it just increases the rate at which the throttle reacts once it starts going, and in Sport it is too sensitive and makes the car want to downshift constantly. So this is definitely something inherent with the way the car is programmed and a pedalbox is not the fix.
Interestingly enough, my buddy with the Mk 7 R bought one at the same time as me, so we could have a like for like comparison, I went round his place on Thursday and oh my what a difference that made to his car! It transformed it from a lazy mushy rubbish pedal to a great intuitive drive, he switched it back to stock while I was driving and the difference was night and day. I think it is because the PedalBox for my car is for the digital pedal and the 7 R's pedal is analog.
I did some crawling around the forums and found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psl7Ehc82RQ&t=...
I am going to go with an APR or 034Motorsport stage 1 tune, in this video, what this guy described about the APR in terms of throttle response is EXACTLY what I am looking for. I will do my research on the 034Motorsport tune's throttle response as they do a combo TCU/ECU deal which is a little cheaper. I let my cousin-in-law drive my car yesterday and he doesn't mind the throttle, maybe I am just full of sh!t. I just cannot stand that delay, to the point that I would take the financial hit and lose 4k on the value to get into a M340i.
I will report back when I get the APR or 034Motorsport tune installed for those who are interested.
I am not a big BMW fanboy by any means, but BMW just gets it right for those who actually enjoy driving their cars, Audi engineers need their heads read. Why on earth would anyone want such a delay in response on a 350hp+ car, is the purpose of having that power on tap not to exploit it?
If anyone here has remapped their B9 S4 and could give some insight as to whether it fixes the problem or not I would highly appreciate it! I am definitely not ready to throw the towel in just yet and defect to BMW.
Wanted to give those interested a review of the DTE PedalBox for the S4. I bought one last week, not convinced at all. In city, the increased pedal response does not really eliminate the lag from throttle tip in, it just increases the rate at which the throttle reacts once it starts going, and in Sport it is too sensitive and makes the car want to downshift constantly. So this is definitely something inherent with the way the car is programmed and a pedalbox is not the fix.
Interestingly enough, my buddy with the Mk 7 R bought one at the same time as me, so we could have a like for like comparison, I went round his place on Thursday and oh my what a difference that made to his car! It transformed it from a lazy mushy rubbish pedal to a great intuitive drive, he switched it back to stock while I was driving and the difference was night and day. I think it is because the PedalBox for my car is for the digital pedal and the 7 R's pedal is analog.
I did some crawling around the forums and found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psl7Ehc82RQ&t=...
I am going to go with an APR or 034Motorsport stage 1 tune, in this video, what this guy described about the APR in terms of throttle response is EXACTLY what I am looking for. I will do my research on the 034Motorsport tune's throttle response as they do a combo TCU/ECU deal which is a little cheaper. I let my cousin-in-law drive my car yesterday and he doesn't mind the throttle, maybe I am just full of sh!t. I just cannot stand that delay, to the point that I would take the financial hit and lose 4k on the value to get into a M340i.
I will report back when I get the APR or 034Motorsport tune installed for those who are interested.
I am not a big BMW fanboy by any means, but BMW just gets it right for those who actually enjoy driving their cars, Audi engineers need their heads read. Why on earth would anyone want such a delay in response on a 350hp+ car, is the purpose of having that power on tap not to exploit it?
If anyone here has remapped their B9 S4 and could give some insight as to whether it fixes the problem or not I would highly appreciate it! I am definitely not ready to throw the towel in just yet and defect to BMW.
Interesting comparing the Golf-R to the S4 as the former is DSG and the latter is Tiptronic so it is not straight comparison. I am also assuming you are based in the US so your S4 is the 2.9L V6 rather than the 3.0L diesel in the UK?
It is interesting how the pedal box changed things as my understanding is they basically give a higher output signal for the same pedal press. This would make low speed behaviour with a laggy box worse as the throttle input is more sudden and probably bigger, I appreciate you trying one as my mind was thinking no and a remap is probably the way forward.
I still can't believe Audi think any of this is acceptable and obviously enough people put up with it so there is no pressure to come up with a proper fix.
I am toying with the remap but warranty concerns are at play so no decision made.
It is interesting how the pedal box changed things as my understanding is they basically give a higher output signal for the same pedal press. This would make low speed behaviour with a laggy box worse as the throttle input is more sudden and probably bigger, I appreciate you trying one as my mind was thinking no and a remap is probably the way forward.
I still can't believe Audi think any of this is acceptable and obviously enough people put up with it so there is no pressure to come up with a proper fix.
I am toying with the remap but warranty concerns are at play so no decision made.
FMOB said:
Interesting comparing the Golf-R to the S4 as the former is DSG and the latter is Tiptronic so it is not straight comparison. I am also assuming you are based in the US so your S4 is the 2.9L V6 rather than the 3.0L diesel in the UK?
It is interesting how the pedal box changed things as my understanding is they basically give a higher output signal for the same pedal press. This would make low speed behaviour with a laggy box worse as the throttle input is more sudden and probably bigger, I appreciate you trying one as my mind was thinking no and a remap is probably the way forward.
I still can't believe Audi think any of this is acceptable and obviously enough people put up with it so there is no pressure to come up with a proper fix.
I am toying with the remap but warranty concerns are at play so no decision made.
I am actually UK based, I have the petrol B9 EA839, the TDI version only came out as 69 plates iirc. It is interesting how the pedal box changed things as my understanding is they basically give a higher output signal for the same pedal press. This would make low speed behaviour with a laggy box worse as the throttle input is more sudden and probably bigger, I appreciate you trying one as my mind was thinking no and a remap is probably the way forward.
I still can't believe Audi think any of this is acceptable and obviously enough people put up with it so there is no pressure to come up with a proper fix.
I am toying with the remap but warranty concerns are at play so no decision made.
And yes that is exactly what happened, in sport setting on the pedalbox all that would happen is smaller presses of the throttle would result in it having a little less lag because the throttle got opened quicker, but then the car would downshift violent and surge forward, but not in a controlled pleasant manner, but it did not eliminate that horrible coding from Audi that causes the throttle delay, all that happened is everything after the delay was quicker/more sensitive.
My car has an extended warranty from Audi which I pay for monthly...that being said, the 034Motorsport tune comes with the Dynamic+ tuning kit, which I believe (talking under correction but from what I read in US forums I am pretty confident I am right) you can flash the car back to stock.
So any warranty issues or when it gets serviced, just flash the car back to stock, I emailed them now to get assurance this is the case, will report back when I get a reply. If this is indeed the case it just means an extra 30min added each way of a service or warranty claim to flash the ECU. From what I have been researching about the 034 company as a whole and a couple of their YT videos, they do seem to prioritize safety and have several safety protocols built in which is reassuring.
I save "car payments" and buy all my cars cash hence why I got a 2018 instead of the 2022 TDI model, and I was planning to save another 18 months to get the M340i...I am kicking myself so bad that I didn't, I thought the S4 would be 95% as good as the M340i on paper, on par interior with superior digital dash for £7-8k cheaper, but this throttle tuning is really making me want to just call it a day and take the loss and finance for a M340i.
I made the mistake of only take a brief test drive too, and you know when you are on a test drive you want to feel what it's got etc, you put it in the sportiest setting and give it the beans, it is only after living with it you notice the shortcomings.
I totally agree with you though, Audi should fix this problem! There is an Eco mode for a reason, put the s
tty throttle mapping and response on the Eco map to eek out the 0.1mpg more that they sit and circle jerk over. Leave dynamic mode sporty and encouraging!This will definitely be my last Audi, if this tune does not fix the problem I will bit the bullet and load myself with the extra debt to get into the BMW, my 335D even though it was diesel was so much more engaging and enjoyable to drive simply because you felt connected with the car. Driving is one of the small things some of us guys enjoy, and a laggy throttle might sound inconsequential to some, but as car guys it makes a big difference between a car you are happy with, want to drive and look after like a second wife, compared to something that is a commuter tool. One would have thought with the S4 being a S line product they would've known the audience it appeals too...anyway enough of my ranting.
Will report back when I get feedback from 034
Thank you your response, I feel the same way about it!
It is not clear why Audi put this delay in, I am assuming that Audi/VAG do this for emissions purposes, it is the only thing I can think of that has been big enough to force a change behaviour in such a huge company. The fact others can the gearbox work well makes it all the curious.
I looked at the 034Motorsport site but not seeing anything for the C8 S6....
It is not clear why Audi put this delay in, I am assuming that Audi/VAG do this for emissions purposes, it is the only thing I can think of that has been big enough to force a change behaviour in such a huge company. The fact others can the gearbox work well makes it all the curious.
I looked at the 034Motorsport site but not seeing anything for the C8 S6....
Audi "quite st to drive really" shocker.
Joking aside I've found this in almost every VAG car I've driven. The spicy models are great for top trumps enthusiasts, and they know how to work the magazines for a good review, but almost all of them are dynamically inept. Good for straight line heroics at least, but every mile you drive that isn't in a completely straight line will be less satisfying than if you'd bought a BMW.
Cut your losses and get rid of it, plenty of knackered non runners at British Car Auctions stand testament to the "skills" of various tuners and mappers.
t to drive really" shocker.Joking aside I've found this in almost every VAG car I've driven. The spicy models are great for top trumps enthusiasts, and they know how to work the magazines for a good review, but almost all of them are dynamically inept. Good for straight line heroics at least, but every mile you drive that isn't in a completely straight line will be less satisfying than if you'd bought a BMW.
Cut your losses and get rid of it, plenty of knackered non runners at British Car Auctions stand testament to the "skills" of various tuners and mappers.
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