B8.5 RS4 Valve Spring Failure

[ChallengerIRL]

Eight weeks ago, while driving home, I lost all power, pulled over immediately, and called a recovery to take my RS4 to the local Audi specialist.

After six weeks of investigation and 8000euro (including a major service as it was due), they diagnosed the issue as a failed valve spring in cylinder three. Apparently, this requires an engine out and a further 8000-10500euro with the possibility of finding more issues to raise the costs further.

So, to hopefully get the car back, it will be the best part of 18000euro.....

I think the car is worth around 35000 euros in a fixed state. (110000km 2015)

I fixed some suspension issues in January (not DRC), totaling about 3500euro.

This brings the total 18month maintenance bill to 21500euro with the potential to have to replace the DRC at any point and probably new tires soon (I can't remember how much they have left as I haven't seen the car in two months).

I no longer love the car; in fact, I fking hate it. I have the fear now of never-ending big bills sucking the life out of my bank account.

I trust the garage, and I do not think they are taking me for a ride.

I think I have three options:

1. Fix the car, keep it and hope for a few years of trouble-free driving to recoup some of the cost
2. Fix the car, sell it and move on.
3. Don't fix the car; find a buyer in its current state, clear the remaining bank loan and move on.

Does anyone care to add to the options here?

• Not UK/EU based.

[ninjag]

Six weeks and €8,000 seems incredibly excessive to diagnose a faulty valve spring. I think you may have been dry fisted.

[darreni]

Not much help, but I never understand why people run these cars without the extended warranty.

[ChallengerIRL]

ninjag said:

Six weeks and €8,000 seems incredibly excessive to diagnose a faulty valve spring. I think you may have been dry fisted.

It started with a cylinder three misfire. One injector was discovered to be leaking, new injectors took four weeks to arrive, not to solve the issue. Include all the associated works in replacing these.

They also did an ECU check. This didn't solve anything.

Ignition coils were replaced, but this didn't solve it.

Then the works for the major service.

Throw me traveling and the technician getting COVID, which arrives at six weeks.

Regarding the costs, I have had other local specialists, one UK specialist, and another EU specialist looks at the diagnostics and quote, and none have mentioned that the quoted prices are anything less than they would charge.

I am not majorly concerned about the garage, their work, or the prices.

Also, the prices above are on today's exchange rate. If this happened last year it might be a grand or two less when converted to euro.

Edited by ChallengerIRL on Sunday 10th July 14:00

Edited by ChallengerIRL on Sunday 10th July 14:00

[ChallengerIRL]

darreni said:

Not much help, but I never understand why people run these cars without the extended warranty.

The warranty from the previous owner lapsed. I was busy traveling with work and kept saying "tomorrow/next week," and here we are

The technician advised me more than once to extend it..... An expensive lesson in not putting such things off is currently being learned.

It should be noted that it remains to be seen if the level of warranty I would of purchased would of actually covered this issue.

Edited by ChallengerIRL on Sunday 10th July 14:01

Edited by ChallengerIRL on Sunday 10th July 14:09

[ninjag]

ChallengerIRL said:

ninjag said:

Six weeks and €8,000 seems incredibly excessive to diagnose a faulty valve spring. I think you may have been dry fisted.

It started with a cylinder three misfire. One injector was discovered to be leaking, new injectors took four weeks to arrive, not to solve the issue. Include all the associated works in replacing these.

They also did an ECU check. This didn't solve anything.

Ignition coils were replaced, but this didn't solve it.

Then the works for the major service.

Throw me traveling and the technician getting COVID, which arrives at six weeks.

Regarding the costs, I have had other local specialists, one UK specialist, and another EU specialist looks at the diagnostics and quote, and none have mentioned that the quoted prices are anything less than they would charge.

I am not majorly concerned about the garage, their work, or the prices.

Also, the prices above are on today's exchange rate. If this happened last year it might be a grand or two less when converted to euro.

Edited by ChallengerIRL on Sunday 10th July 14:00

Edited by ChallengerIRL on Sunday 10th July 14:00

If one injector was leaking why did they need to replace them all? Also, coil pack for cylinder three could be swapped with another one to test, rather than replace them all surely? It does sound a little extravagant, at your expense. The further costs you could be facing seems insane to me.

[ChallengerIRL]

ninjag said:

If one injector was leaking why did they need to replace them all? Also, coil pack for cylinder three could be swapped with another one to test, rather than replace them all surely? It does sound a little extravagant, at your expense. The further costs you could be facing seems insane to me.

Injectors - This was decided as once one goes the rest won't be too far away from going so it was a preventative measure and expected to solve the issue given the injector in cylinder three was the leaking injector. I was expecting a clean bill of health after this and not having to worry about injector issues for another 100,000kms.

Coil pack - Not a major cost in the grand scale of things, replaced on the recommendation of the technician as they were approaching failure mileage and it was very much "while you are in there" however I will raise this again with him.

[ninjag]

I just noticed your mileage, yeah if I knew for sure it would have fixed it then I would have done the same. I'm not familiar with that engine but a little worrying that injectors and coil packs are considered on their way out at that mileage, I would have expected more.

Will they apply similar logic to the valve spring and consider all of them needing to be replaced now? Do you know what caused the spring to fail?

At the money they are looking for to do the spring I would definitely be looking around for other quotes, I would even go as far as looking at UK and even Germany. That is if the car is still driving. Seems a shame for a reasonable young car.

[ChallengerIRL]

ninjag said:

I just noticed your mileage, yeah if I knew for sure it would have fixed it then I would have done the same. I'm not familiar with that engine but a little worrying that injectors and coil packs are considered on their way out at that mileage, I would have expected more.

Will they apply similar logic to the valve spring and consider all of them needing to be replaced now? Do you know what caused the spring to fail?

At the money they are looking for to do the spring I would definitely be looking around for other quotes, I would even go as far as looking at UK and even Germany. That is if the car is still driving. Seems a shame for a reasonable young car.

I could have worded spring failure better. From the video and explanation from them, "the spring has jumped out of the seat". Visually, to me, it looks like with a bit of pressure or rotation on the spring, it would "jump back into the seat". However, it's not as easy as that.

Also, there are no obvious signs that the spring has chipped or fractured, so I am optimistic that there is no damage associated with that (cause if there is, then it's an engine write-off), but this will not be known until the engine is out.

Visually there are no issues with the other springs, and what has happened is explained as being extremely rare; however, they have quoted the replacement of 16 springs and spring disks at about 500euro. I have yet to find out if all really need to be replaced and, if not, what effect that has on the quote and labor costs.

To fix the spring, the engine has to come out due to a lack of room to work. For the engine to come out:

REMOVAL OF ENGINE AND REPLACE VALVE SPRINGS AND RELATED PARTS ONLY ONE
SIDE

1.00 UPPER TIMING CASE - LEFT
1.00 UPPER TIMING CASE - RIGHT
2.00 SILICONE SEALANT
8.00 CAMSHAFT SEAL RING
4.00 CAMSHAFT BOLT
16.00 ROLLER ROCKER ARM
16.00 HYDRAULIC LASH ADJUSTER
6.00 ENGINE EXPANSION PLUG
4.00 VARIABLE VALVE TIMING CONTROL VALVE O - RING (ALREADY QUOTED AND PURCHASED
ABOVE)
1.00 ENGINE HEAD COVER GASKET - LEFT (ALREADY QUOTED AND PURCHASED ABOVE)
1.00 ENGINE HEAD COVER GASKET - RIGHT (ALREADY QUOTED AND PURCHASED ABOVE)
16.00 VALVE SPRING
16.00 VALVE SPRING DISC
32.00 VALVE SPLIT COTTER
16.00 VALVE STEM SEAL
16.00 SPRING SUPPORT
16.00 VALVE STEM SEAL MOUNTING SLEEVE
1.00 TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER - RIGHT
1.00 TIMING CHAIN - RIGHT
1.00 TIMING CHAIN - UPPER CENTRE
1.00 TIMING CHAIN GUIDE RAIL - UPPER CENTRE (TOP)
1.00 TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER - UPPER CENTRE
1.00 TIMING CHAIN GUIDE RAIL - UPPER CENTRE (LEFT)
1.00 TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER OIL SEAL - LOWER CENTRE
1.00 TIMING CHAIN - LEFT
2.00 TIMING CHAIN GUIDE RAIL - LEFT
1.00 TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER - LEFT
1.00 TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER - LOWER CENTRE
1.00 SILICONE SEALANT
1.00 SPARK PLUG SEAL (CYLINDERS 1-4)
1.00 SPARK PLUG SEAL (CYLINDERS 5-8)
2.00 ENGINE EXPANSION PLUG
2.00 ENGINE EXPANSION PLUG
4.00 ENGINE CAMSHAFT PLUG
2.00 FREEZE PLUG
2.00 CYLINDER HEAD SCREW PLUG
2.00 THREAD LOCKING FLUID
1.00 CYLINDER HEAD SEAL RING
48.00 ENGINE HEAD COVER BOLT
1.00 ENGINE OIL FILTER ELEMENT (Major service is pending, Mentioned here just for quoting
purpose only)
9.00 ENGINE OIL (Major service is pending, Mentioned here just for quoting purpose only)
1.00 ENGINE OIL FILTER HOUSING PIPE SEAL
1.00 ENGINE OIL FILTER HOUSING PIPE O - RING
2.00 ENGINE OIL COOLER O - RING
1.00 ENGINE OIL DIPSTICK TUBE O - RING
2.00 ENGINE OIL DIPSTICK SEALING STUD O - RING
1.00 ENGINE OIL MOTOR VALVE HOUSING SEAL
1.00 ENGINE OIL MOTOR VALVE HOUSING O - RING
1.00 ENGINE OIL MOTOR VALVE HOUSING PIPE O - RING
5.00 INTER COOLER OIL PRESSURE LINE O - RING
2.00 RADIATOR HOSE O - RING
1.00 LOWER CENTRE COOLANT PIPE O - RING
1.00 LOWER CENTRE COOLANT PIPE SEAL
2.00 ALTERNATOR COOLANT PIPE UNION O - RING
1.00 UPPER CENTRE COOLANT PIPE O - RING - RIGHT
1.00 UPPER CENTRE COOLANT PIPE O - RING - LEFT
1.00 UPPER CENTRE COOLANT PIPE UNION O - RING - LEFT
4.00 EXHAUST GAS RECIRCULATION VALVE ADAPTER SEAL
2.00 EXHAUST MANIFOLD GASKET
2.00 EXHAUST PIPE GASKET
1.00 CRANKSHAFT OIL SEAL - FRONT
1.00 CRANKSHAFT OIL SEAL - REAR
2.00 OIL SPRAY JET SEAL RING
1.00 SILICONE SEALANT
2.00 OIL THERMOSTAT O - RING
2.00 DOWEL SLEEVE
9.00 ENGINE REAR SEALING FLANGE INNER MULTI POINT HEAD BOLT
10.00 ENGINE REAR SEALING FLANGE OVAL HEXAGON SOCKET HEAD BOLT
9.00 ENGINE REAR SEALING FLANGE FLAT HEXAGON SOCKET HEAD BOLT
6.00 FLYWHEEL BOLT
10.00 CLUTCH PLATE BOLT
12.00 ENGINE COOLANT
1.00 MACHINE SHOP CHARGE
1.00 RECOVER AND REGAS AC SYSTEM FOR ENGINE REMOVAL
1.00 POWER STEERING FLUID
1.00 WHEEL ALIGNMENT
10.00 AVL Consumables

The car is currently not driving, and I am based in the Middle East. If its going back to the EU it will be in a container to the breakers yard.

[Murph7355]

ninjag said:

Six weeks and €8,000 seems incredibly excessive to diagnose a faulty valve spring. I think you may have been dry fisted.

This IMO (OP - have seen the garage's explanations, but am not convinced in their diagnostic abilities).

Of your options, and from what you've said, fix it and sell.

Selling unfixed would be very difficult IMO.

Fixing it and keeping it will have you worrying and not enjoying it.

[kylos27]

Get the spanner’s out, turn the effected cylinder to tdc, remove rocker arms/camshaft etc…. 0ut of the way, remove broken valve spring, fit new spring , refit valve train in reverse order. Sorted.

[stevemcs]

Another quality vag product

I suspect similar to the op

https://youtu.be/_yb_jSso_8A

[kylos27]

Once again the master race has failed

German junk

And they wonder why we voted leave

[P. ONeill]

Murph7355 said:

This IMO (OP - have seen the garage's explanations, but am not convinced in their diagnostic abilities).

Of your options, and from what you've said, fix it and sell.

Selling unfixed would be very difficult IMO.

Fixing it and keeping it will have you worrying and not enjoying it.

Copart, so many amateurs on there these days the car could sell close to retail.

[ChallengerIRL]

kylos27 said:

And they wonder why we voted leave

I thought it was bendy bananas?

[stevemcs]

ChallengerIRL said:

I thought it was bendy bananas?

Oi ! i voted leave, it certainly wasn't the bananas .... it was the bus and 40 squillion pounds.

[P. ONeill]

kylos27 said:

Once again the master race has failed

German junk

And they wonder why we voted leave

You still driving an Allegro?

[Maxdecel]

stevemcs said:

Another quality vag product
I suspect similar to the op
https://youtu.be/_yb_jSso_8A

Great vid, think you need to know your way around VAG stuff to take that on !

ChallengerIRL said:

Eight weeks ago, while driving home, I lost all power, pulled over immediately, and called a recovery to take my RS4 to the local Audi specialist.

After six weeks of investigation and 8000euro (including a major service as it was due), they diagnosed the issue as a failed valve spring in cylinder three.

Does anyone care to add to the options here?

• Not UK/EU based.

If I understand correctly ? They've diagnosed the above without dismantling the engine as in the video, anyone smell "A common fault"
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/7803...

Nearly last post ! " These are the exhaust springs to watch out for... Ask me how I know lol " -,Also "Blue on intake and redish oragen and green on exhaust? If so those are both the known bad ones. Blue for sure was the bad intake side. They were known to cause misfires from the factory."
Then this https://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.php?t=133538