Have VW finally sorted out their DSG gearboxes?

[JS1902]

DSG gearboxes seem to have poor reliability going all the back to the 2000's. I even read up of 2017, 2018 golfs, audis having issues, some needing expensive repairs i.e. mechatronics. Have VW finally got it right with the latest gen Mk8 golf and A3? Or is it a case of owners not getting them serviced according to schedule?

[ninjag]

JS1902 said:

DSG gearboxes seem to have poor reliability going all the back to the 2000's. I even read up of 2017, 2018 golfs, audis having issues, some needing expensive repairs i.e. mechatronics. Have VW finally got it right with the latest gen Mk8 golf and A3? Or is it a case of owners not getting them serviced according to schedule?

My impression was that the Mechatronics issue was sorted in the S4 2014+ (something like the 3rd revision DSG for this car is what I was led to believe). I can't mind where I heard or read about this but I'm in a 2015 at 70k miles and the transmission is silky smooth so hopefully that's true.

But, it could well be the servicing. Mine was due at 38k miles and the car came with a full Audi Main Dealer service history, but I found out soon after buying the car that this doesn't include the DSG fluid service. This is considered an additional discretionary item which doesn't affect the service history - which is criminally misleading in my opinion considering that it is classified as such an imperative maintenance item. A previous owner had cheaped out and not got it done on my car (roughly £250-£300 so not exactly bank breaking) despite it showing as a full service history. What a scam.

I queried this with Audi HQ but they were pretty much of the attitude that they didn't even need to provide complimentary lube when ****ing people up the ****. Worse manufacturer attitude ever, but they are so big..well what did I expect. I did the fluid and external filter myself straight away at 60k miles and it's been fine. Next service in 10k miles I'll do the internal filter and sump as well.

I believe that there were Mechatronic repair kits made available and logic would suggest are the revised components which would be used in the revised transmissions? Just guessing though.

[aka_kerrly]

JS1902 said:

DSG gearboxes seem to have poor reliability going all the back to the 2000's. I even read up of 2017, 2018 golfs, audis having issues, ?

Or is it a case of owners not getting them serviced according to schedule?

You've almost answered your question. The DSG gearboxes have been installed into millions of VAG cars all over the world and a small percentage have failed in some way.

it is important to realise how many different types of dsg there are, 6 or 7 speed, wet or dry clutch are just a couple of examples. The different gearboxes can have different reliability issues/potential weaknesses.

My view of DSG is that there was a stage early in production when aftermarket support was minimal and VW dealers only want to replace entire gearboxes rather than components. This I believe made people think the boxes are expensive and always need replacing.

Now it is far easier to get rebuilt machatronic units for £300 instead of £1500+ VW quote. There also kits to refurbish your existing machatronic unit for £100, aftermarket clutch packs easy to obtain and of course the all important oil & filter changes are now £200 from VW or DIY for £100 instead of the £350 that VW charged when the Mk5 Golf/MK2 TTs first came on the market.

[somouk]

The boxes are perfectly reliable, the tuning now is so eco in most cars that they come across as dim witted at times though.

[Bagpuss1984]

somouk said:

The boxes are perfectly reliable, the tuning now is so eco in most cars that they come across as dim witted at times though.

This a million times. A 2021 A5 tdi with dsg is miles behind the previous bmw with the zf 8 speeder

[wyson]

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/163670/a...

I wouldn’t get one though. People have said on pistonheads they are decent now, but my experience with the early ones put me off. Slow, dim witted, often left me without any form of drive whilst thinking about what gear to select, shunting in traffic and parking.

Most recently read a review comparing Porsche’s PDK to Audi’s DSG which said Audi’s is slow and dim witted in comparison, so even newer DSG’s can’t be brilliant.

They are complex bits of kit and there is more to go wrong. Its definitely something to think about if you plan on keeping the car for a long time.

Edited by wyson on Tuesday 10th May 09:35

[rottenegg]

I'd take slow, dim wittedness in heavy traffic over a clutch any day of the week. VAG DSGs can be improved drastically with remaps anyway, so you're not exactly permanently stuck with that behaviour.

[wyson]

rottenegg said:

I'd take slow, dim wittedness in heavy traffic over a clutch any day of the week. VAG DSGs can be improved drastically with remaps anyway, so you're not exactly permanently stuck with that behaviour.

I chose the opposite. Got a manual because I hated the early DSG’s so much. And that’s with 60-70% on my driving sat in London traffic. Left leg gets a workout. I didn’t want to shell out £1.5k for a DSG rebuild either.

I think if I had to chose something in this class now, I’d get something else with a torque converter. Back then the Golf and A3 were quite a bit nicer (IMO) than other cars in C segment, but from what I read, the competition have generally caught up.

Edited by wyson on Tuesday 10th May 11:09

[rottenegg]

wyson said:

I chose the opposite. Got a manual because I hated the early DSG’s so much. And that’s with 60-70% on my driving sat in London traffic. Left leg gets a workout. I didn’t want to shell out £1.5k for a DSG rebuild either.

I think if I had to chose something in this class now, I’d get something else with a torque converter. Back then the Golf and A3 were quite a bit nicer (IMO) than other cars in C segment, but from what I read, the competition have generally caught up.

Drive my manual for a week and you will rethink that sentiment Granted, it's an Edition 30 with a Helix clutch in it, but the premise is the same.....it's just hideous in heavy traffic, especially when having to crawl up a hill with an engine shy of torque <2000rpm.

In 100% agreement regarding torque converters. The ZF 8 speeds I've tried in BMWs are very nice to use on a daily basis.

I actually liked the old wet 6 speed in the MK5/MK6. I prefer it to the dry 7 speed, which can actually be dangerous if it gets confused mid-overtake.

[ninjag]

If you are doing a lot of driving in slow crawling traffic I would avoid a DSG as it's still clutches which will wear out faster. A torque convertor is the way to go as it's just fluid sloshing about. That being said, my ZF8 in the Jag started showing signs of problems at just over 70k miles despite having the fluid done. The old fluid absolutely stank as well, it was totally cooked apparently. Sealed for life......

[manracer]

My experience is as follows:

2008 Golf GTI Edition 30 - DSG6 Wet clutch was decent enough, great when mapped. Although developed a slight surge when in crawling traffic when warm at around 80k miles.
2021 Cupra Formentor 300 DSG7 Dry clutch - shocking, eco annoyances, slow, hated it, dangerous at times.
2017 ZF8 in M140i, better than DSG7, not quite as quick/good feeling as DSG6 when going quickly, but when cruising - there doesnt seem much in it.

Edited by manracer on Tuesday 10th May 12:10

[rottenegg]

manracer said:

My experience is as follows:

2008 Golf GTI Edition 30 - DSG6 Wet clutch was decent enough, great when mapped. Although developed a slight surge when in crawling traffic when warm at around 80k miles.
2021 Cupra Formentor 300 DSG7 Dry clutch - shocking, eco annoyances, slow, hated it, dangerous at times.
2017 ZF8 in M140i, better than DSG7, not quite as quick/good feeling as DSG6 when going quickly, but when cruising - there doesnt seem much in it.

Edited by manracer on Tuesday 10th May 12:10

Summed up very nicely indeed sir.

[zedx19]

I have a 2017 Golf GTi 6 speed DSG, on 52k ish, no problems so far. The DSG Service was carried out at 40k though. I'd imagine there's a lot of DSG cars out there where this service has been missed, resulting in problems.

Eco Mode - Awful, used once for 10 minutes, never again, will disengage gears when coasting, changes up gear way too low down the revs so struggles.
Normal mode - Drives as you would expect, works fine in traffic, motorway and B roads.
Sport mode - Just hangs onto gears longer, revs higher, used once, never again, it's rubbish imo.
Manual mode - Works like a manual box, just flip the paddles instead, great on B road blasts.

[anonymous-user]

I had a BMW E63 650 with the ZF6hp auto and my wife has a 2019 2.0 Mini with DSG,

The Mini is perfectly smooth but I far preferred the feeling of the BMW. I suspect it’s a car/ engine size thing though, I’m not sure a small engine with an auto would be the same.

I’ve just gone back to a manual for my daily drive and it’s actually quite nice by the way.

[Glosphil]

Tobermory said:

I had a BMW E63 650 with the ZF6hp auto and my wife has a 2019 2.0 Mini with DSG,

The Mini is perfectly smooth but I far preferred the feeling of the BMW. I suspect it’s a car/ engine size thing though, I’m not sure a small engine with an auto would be the same.

I’ve just gone back to a manual for my daily drive and it’s actually quite nice by the way.

A VAG DSG gearbox in a BMW Mini???

[Glosphil]

If you're buying a used car with DSG & reliability worries you then consider the VAG group's current offer of 2 years servicing/warranty/breakdown/MOTs for cars under a certain mileage & age. Only for cars under 2-litres?

[J50N WA]

recently someone I know with a 2015 Polo 1.4 started having issues going into reverse.. jumping out, pausing, jerky..

diagnosed mechatron issue - £2k fix, was the 3rd garage that accepted the repair, other garages wasn't interested .. car was £6k and just our of warranty.. its a young lads 1st car, puts you off..

[cuprabob]

J50N WA said:

recently someone I know with a 2015 Polo 1.4 started having issues going into reverse.. jumping out, pausing, jerky..

diagnosed mechatron issue - £2k fix, was the 3rd garage that accepted the repair, other garages wasn't interested .. car was £6k and just our of warranty.. its a young lads 1st car, puts you off..

These days there are companies that can repair the mechatronics unit for a few hundred quid. The 2k price sounds like a new unit from VW.

[J50N WA]

cuprabob said:

J50N WA said:

recently someone I know with a 2015 Polo 1.4 started having issues going into reverse.. jumping out, pausing, jerky..

diagnosed mechatron issue - £2k fix, was the 3rd garage that accepted the repair, other garages wasn't interested .. car was £6k and just our of warranty.. its a young lads 1st car, puts you off..

These days there are companies that can repair the mechatronics unit for a few hundred quid. The 2k price sounds like a new unit from VW.

agreed, but you have to know some kinda spannering to do that and get it all together. 18yro lad with no knowledge of mechanics has no chance, and that kinda bill is a tough lesson.. have VW sorted the DSG? Not in my eyes, not for the average punter.

[ninjag]

J50N WA said:

recently someone I know with a 2015 Polo 1.4 started having issues going into reverse.. jumping out, pausing, jerky..

diagnosed mechatron issue - £2k fix, was the 3rd garage that accepted the repair, other garages wasn't interested .. car was £6k and just our of warranty.. its a young lads 1st car, puts you off..

Will this be the dry clutch DQ200 DSG transmission? I'm sure I've heard they can be troublesome compared to the wet clutch versions, although the latter can still have issues. But then the famed ZF8 torque convertor transmission in my XF started to get rough shifts at 70k miles despite the fluid and filters being changed. The old fluid stank of being cooked and there was a metallic paste all over the filter and magnets.

Regarding the Polo unit, apparently a fault with reverse can often be misdiagnosed as the mechatronics unit but could actually be a bearing or the fork (or both). There's a good article here on this transmission and in particular there's a section on the reverse gear issue. I hope this helps and maybe saves the lad a ton of money:

https://www.eco-torque.co.uk/post/vw-dsg-7-speed-d...