chipped GTi mk5 - but what?
Discussion
When I bought my 2007 GTi I was told it had a minor chip upgrade to add approx 20bhp to it. Am now recommissioning it and going to go full stage 1 - but don't want to do that if it's effectively been done already. So how do I tell what it had done?! It may be nothing, it may be full +50-60bhp, it may be the 20bhp I was told. Is the chip easily identifiable?
Rolling road is my best guess, to see what's it's actually making, but any other ways of telling?
Rolling road is my best guess, to see what's it's actually making, but any other ways of telling?
A "piggy back" box you'll be able to see, there'll be a second pass-through connector on the ECU and probably a few more leads hanging off that.
More likely it has a map of some sort installed, with software you'd data log boost/timing etc. and compare to standard.
If you're planning on tuning it anyway I wouldn't bother. That way you'll have support from someone who knows the software, you'll know its exact calibration, have an upgrade path for anything you might want in the future...
More likely it has a map of some sort installed, with software you'd data log boost/timing etc. and compare to standard.
If you're planning on tuning it anyway I wouldn't bother. That way you'll have support from someone who knows the software, you'll know its exact calibration, have an upgrade path for anything you might want in the future...
A Stage 1 mapped MK5 is a good thing and hard for a tuner, even with a basic off the shelf map, to get wrong on a standard car.
The main thing with these is the jump in torque, not power, because the factory turbo runs out of puff at high engine speeds.
If you drove back to back with a standard car you would be able to tell straight away. If you don’t have comparators, an iPhone app like PerfExpert would reveal if it is making high torque. A healthy factory car on Super Unleaded should be a bit over 200bhp and at a guess 220lb/ft.
ETA: Of course anything like VCDS and possibly OBDEleven that gives boost will tell you, since remaps increase boost pressure.
The main thing with these is the jump in torque, not power, because the factory turbo runs out of puff at high engine speeds.
If you drove back to back with a standard car you would be able to tell straight away. If you don’t have comparators, an iPhone app like PerfExpert would reveal if it is making high torque. A healthy factory car on Super Unleaded should be a bit over 200bhp and at a guess 220lb/ft.
ETA: Of course anything like VCDS and possibly OBDEleven that gives boost will tell you, since remaps increase boost pressure.
Edited by Tommie38 on Thursday 21st April 13:06
Thanks all - PerfExpert seems the ideal solution. Can check current and then if not much better will get it mapped. Planing on using R-Tech Performance to do the map. Updated arb, camber adjustable bal joints and lowering springs done. Suspension setup to be done via Susiension Secrets.
xcentric said:
Thanks all - PerfExpert seems the ideal solution. Can check current and then if not much better will get it mapped. Planing on using R-Tech Performance to do the map. Updated arb, camber adjustable bal joints and lowering springs done. Suspension setup to be done via Susiension Secrets.
Sorry, somehow missed your response before editing the point about VCDS/OBDEleven. In any event, those routes are more definitive but quite a bit more expensive.PerfExper is cheap and quick, the increase in torque will stand out a mile if it is mapped.
Out of interest, would you not want a remap anyway to suit the new hardware upgrades? Might the car s
t itself if you just went ahead without re-remapping and just bolted on the bits? For my car, I understand if I put on a sports exhaust and sports cat or do anything else in terms of power, I'd require a remap or just get an ECU warning light the whole time.
t itself if you just went ahead without re-remapping and just bolted on the bits? For my car, I understand if I put on a sports exhaust and sports cat or do anything else in terms of power, I'd require a remap or just get an ECU warning light the whole time.With VCDS you can check the ECU's 'flash count' in 'Advanced ID'. Factory software will be 0, possibly 1 if it's had a dealer update, but I'm not aware of any on UK GTIs. If it's 2 or more, 100% it's remapped.
Also with VCDS, and indeed OBD11, you can simply monitor the requested boost pressure. Factory boost on the GTI is 1 bar and 0.9 bar for the Edition 30. If you see a boost request of 1.4 bar, it's mapped.
Similarly, pull up the requested fuel pressure request. Stock is 109.9 bar, remaps call for 120-125 bar usually.
There's always clues if you know where to look.
If in doubt, just get it remapped anyway. Any previous map can be over written. Just start afresh.
Bear in mind you cannot go backwards with these ECUs. If you plan on selling the car in the future, it will always show as being remapped, even if you take it to a dealer and get them to reflash it with the standard software. Many dealers and back street garages are more than aware of how to check for remaps.
Also worthy of note is the turbos don't like being pushed. Borg Warner quote a maximum flow rate for 250hp for the K03 and 300hp for the K04 turbo. Run them higher than that and you will quickly kill off the thrust bearings. Further more, all turbo DI engines suffer from LSPI (low speed pre-ignition) and I've seen all too many times remaps breaking pistons.
You have been warned, but enjoy it while it lasts :-)
Also with VCDS, and indeed OBD11, you can simply monitor the requested boost pressure. Factory boost on the GTI is 1 bar and 0.9 bar for the Edition 30. If you see a boost request of 1.4 bar, it's mapped.
Similarly, pull up the requested fuel pressure request. Stock is 109.9 bar, remaps call for 120-125 bar usually.
There's always clues if you know where to look.
If in doubt, just get it remapped anyway. Any previous map can be over written. Just start afresh.
Bear in mind you cannot go backwards with these ECUs. If you plan on selling the car in the future, it will always show as being remapped, even if you take it to a dealer and get them to reflash it with the standard software. Many dealers and back street garages are more than aware of how to check for remaps.
Also worthy of note is the turbos don't like being pushed. Borg Warner quote a maximum flow rate for 250hp for the K03 and 300hp for the K04 turbo. Run them higher than that and you will quickly kill off the thrust bearings. Further more, all turbo DI engines suffer from LSPI (low speed pre-ignition) and I've seen all too many times remaps breaking pistons.
You have been warned, but enjoy it while it lasts :-)
Edited by rottenegg on Saturday 23 April 00:56
I don't have access to VDCS but I do have OBDeleven so will give that a go.
As to needing a remap for suspension changes - not needed - it makes it handle better and so be able to utilise more power more effectively, but otherwise it's clearly optional.
And for breaking things - it depends on the remap and expertise of people doing it. For sure, it will put more stress on components, but most of them will be well within tolerances for sensible remap and certainly at stage 1.
Thanks for the inputs, all.
As to needing a remap for suspension changes - not needed - it makes it handle better and so be able to utilise more power more effectively, but otherwise it's clearly optional.
And for breaking things - it depends on the remap and expertise of people doing it. For sure, it will put more stress on components, but most of them will be well within tolerances for sensible remap and certainly at stage 1.
Thanks for the inputs, all.
And worth remembering some maps will need you to run on certain fuel unless they are switchable. APR for instance 99 map needs V power or Tesco momentum if you plan to use full throttle otherwise it will mess up the timing.
We have a stage 1 Apr map on my wife's 2010 Tiguan R Line 2.0 TSI, so the EA888 engine. I got the timing chain replaced with new tensioner for peace of mind and thought why not. Went from 200bhp and 223 ft lb to 250bhp and 313 ft lb. As others have said its the extra torque which is most felt. Quite funny now when you have someone unsuspecting on your bumper...
We have a stage 1 Apr map on my wife's 2010 Tiguan R Line 2.0 TSI, so the EA888 engine. I got the timing chain replaced with new tensioner for peace of mind and thought why not. Went from 200bhp and 223 ft lb to 250bhp and 313 ft lb. As others have said its the extra torque which is most felt. Quite funny now when you have someone unsuspecting on your bumper...
xcentric said:
As to needing a remap for suspension changes - not needed - it makes it handle better and so be able to utilise more power more effectively, but otherwise it's clearly optional.
And for breaking things - it depends on the remap and expertise of people doing it. For sure, it will put more stress on components, but most of them will be well within tolerances for sensible remap and certainly at stage 1.
Thanks for the inputs, all.
Oops, didn't realise it was just going to be suspension upgrades. For some reason I thought "arb" was refering to something else. And for breaking things - it depends on the remap and expertise of people doing it. For sure, it will put more stress on components, but most of them will be well within tolerances for sensible remap and certainly at stage 1.
Thanks for the inputs, all.
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