Corrado vs. TT - What would you do?
Discussion
To bring some starting knowledge to this question: I've owned my Corrado (1990 - 1.8 16v) for about 13 years now, somehow it's survived multiple house moves, a dozen other cars and has spent the last few years laid up in the garage, so I'm quite attached to it.
I have somehow come into possession of an 8N 2005 1.8T 225 Quattro TT for slightly more than banger money. You can see where this is going right?
Well, the TT is mechanically sound, cosmetically, so/so.
I've always wanted to liven up the Corrado and have made numerous plans over the years for tame to wild mods. The other issue being, this TT is car 5 in my 2 person household.
So I could:
I have somehow come into possession of an 8N 2005 1.8T 225 Quattro TT for slightly more than banger money. You can see where this is going right?
Well, the TT is mechanically sound, cosmetically, so/so.
I've always wanted to liven up the Corrado and have made numerous plans over the years for tame to wild mods. The other issue being, this TT is car 5 in my 2 person household.
So I could:
- Strip the TT, throw it all under the corrado, have a 225Hp Quattro Corrado. Would likely cost 3-4ish thousand before tidying up anything else on the Corrado
- Pull the engine/electronics etc and buy an O2M FWD gearbox build a fast FWD Corrado, sell the rest of the TT bits to recoup money/fund other works
- Spend a little money on the TT cosmetics and move it on, add that profit to the Corrado fund for future.
Belle427 said:
Is the TT ever going to be worth good money?
I'd probably use all its bits and ebay off the rest but we are all different.
Costs soon spiral out of control with projects like this.
Would be a shame to break a good TT granted but needs must!
Tarted up, I'd probably clear 1-1.5k profit out of it.I'd probably use all its bits and ebay off the rest but we are all different.
Costs soon spiral out of control with projects like this.
Would be a shame to break a good TT granted but needs must!
Part of me is tempted to strip the TT, keep the bits I need, sell as much as I can and see if that would pay for the additional (and bloody rare) parts to do a quattro conversion. But then I have to store the bits until they sell.
I wasn't going to do anything with the Corrado until I had got my enjoyment from my Buick and moved that on, but, never look a gift horse in the mouth and all that.
It all depends what you want from the Corrado.
A few years ago 20v conversations were very popular, but as times moving on OEM cars are becoming fought after. None of that may bother you if it’s a car for life!
Conversions come with a lot of issues and they’re never quite ‘right’ despite how perfect people will tel you their looms etc are. Tread carefully.
4wd/syncro/haldex adds in another whole world of pain. I’d be very very impressed if you could get a whole conversation including 4wd within 3-4k. I don’t think it’s anywhere near achievable. Unless you’re going with MONSTER power it’s also unnecessary.
Consider braking and geometry. You’ll need 305mm Ibiza cupra Brembos and 280 rears/mk4 callipers if you’re over 200bhp.
So what would I do? Sell the TT, source a 2.0 bottom end and have the car well tuned - 180bhp is very achievable from an n/a lump. Fit G60 280mm fronts and 256 rears. KW coilovers, sticky rubber, upgraded bushes etc. You’ll have everything you need without the stress.
A few years ago 20v conversations were very popular, but as times moving on OEM cars are becoming fought after. None of that may bother you if it’s a car for life!
Conversions come with a lot of issues and they’re never quite ‘right’ despite how perfect people will tel you their looms etc are. Tread carefully.
4wd/syncro/haldex adds in another whole world of pain. I’d be very very impressed if you could get a whole conversation including 4wd within 3-4k. I don’t think it’s anywhere near achievable. Unless you’re going with MONSTER power it’s also unnecessary.
Consider braking and geometry. You’ll need 305mm Ibiza cupra Brembos and 280 rears/mk4 callipers if you’re over 200bhp.
So what would I do? Sell the TT, source a 2.0 bottom end and have the car well tuned - 180bhp is very achievable from an n/a lump. Fit G60 280mm fronts and 256 rears. KW coilovers, sticky rubber, upgraded bushes etc. You’ll have everything you need without the stress.
bristolbaron said:
So what would I do? Sell the TT, source a 2.0 bottom end and have the car well tuned - 180bhp is very achievable from an n/a lump. Fit G60 280mm fronts and 256 rears. KW coilovers, sticky rubber, upgraded bushes etc. You’ll have everything you need without the stress.
Imagine that with the Badger 5 ITBs on too? Knocking on for 200 PS and a killer soundtrack.
Dr G said:
bristolbaron said:
So what would I do? Sell the TT, source a 2.0 bottom end and have the car well tuned - 180bhp is very achievable from an n/a lump. Fit G60 280mm fronts and 256 rears. KW coilovers, sticky rubber, upgraded bushes etc. You’ll have everything you need without the stress.
Imagine that with the Badger 5 ITBs on too? Knocking on for 200 PS and a killer soundtrack.
I once had a G60 with a BBM charger, now that was a soundtrack! Of course not a patch on the R32…
It's been done with Rallye running gear before, but grafting Haldex onto a MK2 platform is a ball ache of biblical proportions. Too many hurdles to overcome, which will end up being a project that gets started, but never finished.
To make it work and drive as a TT, you'd need all of it's under garments grafting on......and you may have noticed how wide the TT's track is compared to the Corrado's, and how stingy the Corrado's wheel arch space is.
It's not impossible, but it's a beefy project, plus a good dose of mustard.
As above, stick to FWD and if you're not planning on tuning the 1.8T, stick to the 02A gearbox because slotting in an O2M presents it's own challenges. For one thing you'll need a FWD diff and output flange (you can poach those from a scrap MK5 Golf GTI O2Q gearbox) and you'll also need to weld on the engine mount carriers for both the box and the engine, and you'll need custom driveshafts. You can't use the O2Q as a whole unit as it doesn't have a speedo drive like the O2M. It uses the ABS sensors for vehicle speed.
The O2A can live with 350lbft but beyond that, you will definitely need the O2M.
Good luck!
To make it work and drive as a TT, you'd need all of it's under garments grafting on......and you may have noticed how wide the TT's track is compared to the Corrado's, and how stingy the Corrado's wheel arch space is.
It's not impossible, but it's a beefy project, plus a good dose of mustard.
As above, stick to FWD and if you're not planning on tuning the 1.8T, stick to the 02A gearbox because slotting in an O2M presents it's own challenges. For one thing you'll need a FWD diff and output flange (you can poach those from a scrap MK5 Golf GTI O2Q gearbox) and you'll also need to weld on the engine mount carriers for both the box and the engine, and you'll need custom driveshafts. You can't use the O2Q as a whole unit as it doesn't have a speedo drive like the O2M. It uses the ABS sensors for vehicle speed.
The O2A can live with 350lbft but beyond that, you will definitely need the O2M.
Good luck!
I had the 225 lump in my Mk1 Leon Cupra R - it needed a trick diff to tame it, but otherwise it would've happily taken more power and for a summer car I agree with all comments above that FWD will keep it steering as it should and be more than enough fun.
2.0 build with some trick bits should be bags of fun.
Is the Corrado a car that sticking to OEM spec might be worth more in the long term vs modding it, or does the fun outweigh a potential hit on values? Depends a lot on current mileage/originality of bodywork, history etc. They do seem to be a car that owners really hang on to and I absolutely see the appeal of both a stock and modded one
If you want some inspiration on engine management, worth reading the readers rides thread of the brave chap who has successfully dropped a B5 RS4 2.7 twin turbo into a Boxster. Dropping an engine in that doesn't want to talk nicely to any existing electronics should be workable, but given how old the architecture of the Corrado is, I suspect either an ECU with a donor engine, or a fairly basic aftermarket setup e.g. Emerald will work happily with the rest of the car
2.0 build with some trick bits should be bags of fun.
Is the Corrado a car that sticking to OEM spec might be worth more in the long term vs modding it, or does the fun outweigh a potential hit on values? Depends a lot on current mileage/originality of bodywork, history etc. They do seem to be a car that owners really hang on to and I absolutely see the appeal of both a stock and modded one
If you want some inspiration on engine management, worth reading the readers rides thread of the brave chap who has successfully dropped a B5 RS4 2.7 twin turbo into a Boxster. Dropping an engine in that doesn't want to talk nicely to any existing electronics should be workable, but given how old the architecture of the Corrado is, I suspect either an ECU with a donor engine, or a fairly basic aftermarket setup e.g. Emerald will work happily with the rest of the car
As an owner of 3 aging Volkswagens - Corrado VR6, Mk2 Golf 16v, Mk3 Golf 16v - I would say keep your Corrado stock or OEM+ with reversible mods. They are of an age where they are heading to true classic status and whacking a 1.8t in will just hold its value at the bottom end of the market forever. Spend the money making the body and your current engine as good as possible and reap the benefits in the future.
But that said it is your car so do what makes you happy. You've had it a long time and i suspect will keep it for further more so future values may not be relevant, however what will be relevant is having a Corrado with an engine combo close to or similar to how it left the factory, for memories and "they don't build them light that anymore" reasons. If you want a 1.8t keep the TT.
There is much more to cars than speed and a fettled KR 1.8 can be a lot of fun.
But that said it is your car so do what makes you happy. You've had it a long time and i suspect will keep it for further more so future values may not be relevant, however what will be relevant is having a Corrado with an engine combo close to or similar to how it left the factory, for memories and "they don't build them light that anymore" reasons. If you want a 1.8t keep the TT.
There is much more to cars than speed and a fettled KR 1.8 can be a lot of fun.
Edited by _Mja_ on Friday 1st April 18:07
The Corrado will never be a classic. VW tried to forget about that car as quickly as they could as it was a complete flop for them.
You can still get a huge amount of parts for E30 BMWs, but try getting parts for a Corrado. That tells you something. VW are not proud of that car, at all.
They rebooted the Scirocco, not the Corrado. That also tells you something.
The G Lader Supercharger development was a monumental expense but didn't deliver the goods, or last. The VR6 was launched right in the middle of the hot hatch insurance crisis and didn't sell well.
The 16V was gutless, the Corrado was too heavy for it, and they even tried a poverty spec 2.0 8V, which was equally dire.
I owned a VR6 for 9 years, so I understand the sentiment in keeping one going with a more modern drivetrain, but ultimately the writing was on the wall and I got rid of it and never looked back.
You can still get a huge amount of parts for E30 BMWs, but try getting parts for a Corrado. That tells you something. VW are not proud of that car, at all.
They rebooted the Scirocco, not the Corrado. That also tells you something.
The G Lader Supercharger development was a monumental expense but didn't deliver the goods, or last. The VR6 was launched right in the middle of the hot hatch insurance crisis and didn't sell well.
The 16V was gutless, the Corrado was too heavy for it, and they even tried a poverty spec 2.0 8V, which was equally dire.
I owned a VR6 for 9 years, so I understand the sentiment in keeping one going with a more modern drivetrain, but ultimately the writing was on the wall and I got rid of it and never looked back.
I think you'll find VW don't support any of their classics for parts. The only reason it is possible to get parts for the more mass produced cars is becuase other suppliers have stepped in.
If you own a classic BMW, Mercedes, Porsche you have access to their classic parts warehouse via the Dealer Network. Not so for VW you have to go to VW Heritage, who for the last 2 years have only been open half days and if you're really lucky there might be some items in VWs German based classic warehouse you can buy via Heritage. Nothing is remade by VW unlike BMW, Mercedes etc.
The Corrado was not a flop of a car, it was reviewed favourably and held the accolade of the best FWD handling car of its time. The reason it didn't sell in high numbers was becuase it wasn't the right car for VW to market to its customers - it was considerably more expensive and as a product of better quality than other VWs of the era such as the Scirocco, Golf , and in VWs head it was a rival to the 944 on price and a competitor but rightly so the market didn't buy it becuase that wasn't where VW sat. After that point Audi was upscalled to the premium sector and the Corrado was no more. You have to remember back in the early 90s VWs and Audis were sold out of the same showrooms and the distinction of Audi as a premium product over VW was not in place like it is today.
As a modern classic the Corrado is starting to do well. A clean example will now set you back £15,000 and we have seen many many sales at that price. My own car was recently appraised for sale at that sort of money. That wil buy you a car that has been maintained, restored and not rusty. You can still get projects for less but these will dry up. I don't think the Corrado will do as well as the Golf GTI in this coutnry as we are a nation of hot hatch lovers but at current values it's hardly doing badly, unlike the Scirocco for example. However the Corrado is doing much better than the equivlent Audi 80 coupe from the 90s - they're still only around £2-3k.
Also the VR6 wasn't introduced during the insurance crisis, that was the late 80s. The VR6 was introduced in 92 as a competitor for more luxury cars such as BMWs 3 series - VW were trying to move away from the hot hatch segment on that car but as mentioned above that wasn't the path VW ultimarely ended up and Audi took the lead in that segment. That doesn't make the Corrado a flop of a car that won't be a classic - it was a great car with the wrong badge on it.
If you own a classic BMW, Mercedes, Porsche you have access to their classic parts warehouse via the Dealer Network. Not so for VW you have to go to VW Heritage, who for the last 2 years have only been open half days and if you're really lucky there might be some items in VWs German based classic warehouse you can buy via Heritage. Nothing is remade by VW unlike BMW, Mercedes etc.
The Corrado was not a flop of a car, it was reviewed favourably and held the accolade of the best FWD handling car of its time. The reason it didn't sell in high numbers was becuase it wasn't the right car for VW to market to its customers - it was considerably more expensive and as a product of better quality than other VWs of the era such as the Scirocco, Golf , and in VWs head it was a rival to the 944 on price and a competitor but rightly so the market didn't buy it becuase that wasn't where VW sat. After that point Audi was upscalled to the premium sector and the Corrado was no more. You have to remember back in the early 90s VWs and Audis were sold out of the same showrooms and the distinction of Audi as a premium product over VW was not in place like it is today.
As a modern classic the Corrado is starting to do well. A clean example will now set you back £15,000 and we have seen many many sales at that price. My own car was recently appraised for sale at that sort of money. That wil buy you a car that has been maintained, restored and not rusty. You can still get projects for less but these will dry up. I don't think the Corrado will do as well as the Golf GTI in this coutnry as we are a nation of hot hatch lovers but at current values it's hardly doing badly, unlike the Scirocco for example. However the Corrado is doing much better than the equivlent Audi 80 coupe from the 90s - they're still only around £2-3k.
Also the VR6 wasn't introduced during the insurance crisis, that was the late 80s. The VR6 was introduced in 92 as a competitor for more luxury cars such as BMWs 3 series - VW were trying to move away from the hot hatch segment on that car but as mentioned above that wasn't the path VW ultimarely ended up and Audi took the lead in that segment. That doesn't make the Corrado a flop of a car that won't be a classic - it was a great car with the wrong badge on it.
Edited by _Mja_ on Saturday 23 April 09:31
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