VW Passat - Sticking throttle sensation.
Discussion
Hi,
I bought a 65 plate VW Passat 2.0TDI Estate (Blue Motion - Business spec) from a local VW Main Dealer. The car has now done about 40K and is a manual gearbox. It is covered by a VW three year warranty.
I have noticed two distinct driving problems with it which seem to be linked to the throttle/engine management in some way.
If you are looking to decelerate for say a bend, roundabout etc where you may wish to come down from say 50mph to 30mph, the car feels as if it wants to carry on at its previous speed. It has the sensation akin to a sticking throttle or a car that is on 'choke' (for those that remember) where it seems to want to hold the previous revs. When you brake, it feels as if you are braking against the throttle, rather than the throttle having fallen away (dropped revs). You can drive around this problem by depressing the clutch earlier (to remove the effect of the throttle).
Recently on a quite country lane I noticed the same sensation of revs being 'held'. I was able to remove my feet from the pedals and the car drove up hill and down dale for miles (I tried it at 30mph) without me touching the pedals. On a hill the car would actually increase revs and speed up slightly all of its own to deal with the gradient. I have tried this on a steep hill. Car at 20mph, no feet on pedals, car in 3rd, and the car will never come to a juddering stop. it just pulls you up the hill and carries on.
I checked all the usual things like the cruise control etc but its not that. It is switched off. This was also checked by VW.
I have taken it into the VW dealership I bought it from twice now. I have had two different mechanics drive the car and ride with me when I drove. I have been able to duplicate the above with them on board. The first mechanic said the car was fine and couldn't see this as a problem. The second (somewhat patronisingly) said he gets a few drivers of 'my generation', I'm in my fifties by the way, stating the same problem but this is how the 'new generation' of cars drive and its all part of the engine management system using fuel efficiently. He stated that other VWs were worse, namely the 1.5 petrol?,
In other words it's me and I need to alter my driving to accommodate it. I have driven all manner of cars over the years, raced and have driven as a profession and have never experienced anything like it.
I can drive around this issue but I find the explanation given hard to believe. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced similar? Is there a solution/fix or am I really ready for my tartan rug and bath chair.
Thanks for reading.
I bought a 65 plate VW Passat 2.0TDI Estate (Blue Motion - Business spec) from a local VW Main Dealer. The car has now done about 40K and is a manual gearbox. It is covered by a VW three year warranty.
I have noticed two distinct driving problems with it which seem to be linked to the throttle/engine management in some way.
If you are looking to decelerate for say a bend, roundabout etc where you may wish to come down from say 50mph to 30mph, the car feels as if it wants to carry on at its previous speed. It has the sensation akin to a sticking throttle or a car that is on 'choke' (for those that remember) where it seems to want to hold the previous revs. When you brake, it feels as if you are braking against the throttle, rather than the throttle having fallen away (dropped revs). You can drive around this problem by depressing the clutch earlier (to remove the effect of the throttle).
Recently on a quite country lane I noticed the same sensation of revs being 'held'. I was able to remove my feet from the pedals and the car drove up hill and down dale for miles (I tried it at 30mph) without me touching the pedals. On a hill the car would actually increase revs and speed up slightly all of its own to deal with the gradient. I have tried this on a steep hill. Car at 20mph, no feet on pedals, car in 3rd, and the car will never come to a juddering stop. it just pulls you up the hill and carries on.
I checked all the usual things like the cruise control etc but its not that. It is switched off. This was also checked by VW.
I have taken it into the VW dealership I bought it from twice now. I have had two different mechanics drive the car and ride with me when I drove. I have been able to duplicate the above with them on board. The first mechanic said the car was fine and couldn't see this as a problem. The second (somewhat patronisingly) said he gets a few drivers of 'my generation', I'm in my fifties by the way, stating the same problem but this is how the 'new generation' of cars drive and its all part of the engine management system using fuel efficiently. He stated that other VWs were worse, namely the 1.5 petrol?,
In other words it's me and I need to alter my driving to accommodate it. I have driven all manner of cars over the years, raced and have driven as a profession and have never experienced anything like it.
I can drive around this issue but I find the explanation given hard to believe. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced similar? Is there a solution/fix or am I really ready for my tartan rug and bath chair.
Thanks for reading.
It's been over a year since I had the same car for the first issue have you looked into the driving modes? As it might be set on custom which allows you to alter various settings (via radio). Its a long shot but I had a rental BMW 3 series which had some electronics turned on to determine what you are doing next, so when you changed down for roundabout it infact speed up.
For the 3rd gear never stalling, I wouldnt worry about that in fact I miss it as really handy driving onto the euro tunnel trains. When you move onto newer adblue cars then your back to stalling when cold or at low speed.
For the 3rd gear never stalling, I wouldnt worry about that in fact I miss it as really handy driving onto the euro tunnel trains. When you move onto newer adblue cars then your back to stalling when cold or at low speed.
Edited by PisstNBroke on Tuesday 11th February 17:14
At what rpm are you noticing this happening?
I have several customer complaints of this sensation. But depending on the engine rpm this is ultimately it is correct operation of the engine assuming the engine rpm is bellow 1200-1500rpm. I cant remember the exact figure on 2.0tdi.
The self acceleration sensation will be quite strong if the revs drop even lower, say 30mph in 4th gear 1000rpm, the engine management system is stopping you from stalling the engine and accelerating to maintaining the minimum programmed rpm.
I have several customer complaints of this sensation. But depending on the engine rpm this is ultimately it is correct operation of the engine assuming the engine rpm is bellow 1200-1500rpm. I cant remember the exact figure on 2.0tdi.
The self acceleration sensation will be quite strong if the revs drop even lower, say 30mph in 4th gear 1000rpm, the engine management system is stopping you from stalling the engine and accelerating to maintaining the minimum programmed rpm.
Thanks for the replies.
I have re-checked the car system menu's/settings as per the point raised by PisstNBroke. I cannot find any custom settings or anything else that seems to indicate what is going on.
In response to the points raised by Tame Technician. VW did mention 'Anti Stall'. It does seem to be an issue where i'm travelling at the lower end of the rev range in 3rd/4th gear (I don't normally drive like this but it is a good way to illustrate the effect to someone else) or I am braking in a higher gear to a point where I would be looking to see the revs drop to allow me to take a lower gear to accelerate away say after a bend/clear roundabout etc.
A friend who experienced it felt it was so pronounced and intrusive in the circumstances described that it felt like the car was 'driving itself on these occasions.
If this is a factory ECU/Map/Anti stall issue in the way described it seems very intrusive. I have not experienced this in any other car. I'm at a loss as to why I need Anti Stall and what driving issue it is addressing. It seems to be a function that adds little if anything but does make driving less fluid. I'd be interested in whether you think there is a 'fix', like asking VW to disengage it or adjust it to be less intrusive.
Thanks for your time.
I have re-checked the car system menu's/settings as per the point raised by PisstNBroke. I cannot find any custom settings or anything else that seems to indicate what is going on.
In response to the points raised by Tame Technician. VW did mention 'Anti Stall'. It does seem to be an issue where i'm travelling at the lower end of the rev range in 3rd/4th gear (I don't normally drive like this but it is a good way to illustrate the effect to someone else) or I am braking in a higher gear to a point where I would be looking to see the revs drop to allow me to take a lower gear to accelerate away say after a bend/clear roundabout etc.
A friend who experienced it felt it was so pronounced and intrusive in the circumstances described that it felt like the car was 'driving itself on these occasions.
If this is a factory ECU/Map/Anti stall issue in the way described it seems very intrusive. I have not experienced this in any other car. I'm at a loss as to why I need Anti Stall and what driving issue it is addressing. It seems to be a function that adds little if anything but does make driving less fluid. I'd be interested in whether you think there is a 'fix', like asking VW to disengage it or adjust it to be less intrusive.
Thanks for your time.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uRUO_kCdFm0
Is what I was thinking about, think I left mine in normal.... hated the sport mode
Is what I was thinking about, think I left mine in normal.... hated the sport mode
Sorry if it's not what you want to heat but that is correct operation.
I find the customers who complain of this always had a previous vehicle that was quite low geared, where maybe you could turn into a t junction and power out in say 3rd gear no problem.
Now in modern diesel car, which has very high gearing, they are naturally selecting the same gears they have their entire driving life, but in the new car this is usually one gear too low, 2nd would have to be used at the same T junction 3rd was used before for example.
Where previous an engine might labour and vibrate, now the anti stall prevents this, but causes an acceleration as it holds the revs up out of the labouring rpm range.
Hope this helps explain what's going on.
i think when the tech said people of ur generation, he meant people who have been driving for years In older lower geared vehicles.
It's certainly what I find with my customer.
I find the customers who complain of this always had a previous vehicle that was quite low geared, where maybe you could turn into a t junction and power out in say 3rd gear no problem.
Now in modern diesel car, which has very high gearing, they are naturally selecting the same gears they have their entire driving life, but in the new car this is usually one gear too low, 2nd would have to be used at the same T junction 3rd was used before for example.
Where previous an engine might labour and vibrate, now the anti stall prevents this, but causes an acceleration as it holds the revs up out of the labouring rpm range.
Hope this helps explain what's going on.
i think when the tech said people of ur generation, he meant people who have been driving for years In older lower geared vehicles.
It's certainly what I find with my customer.
What I would be doing to solve this for certain... is use a data logging app (with bluetooth dongle) to check the throttle position as you are driving.
if you're in the market for a one tool fits all for all your car needs, OBD11 is available for £50. if you're looking just for this issue, a cheap bluetooth dongle and "Torque" app (around £20 in total) will show you the throttle position logged as a percentage while you're driving. If it's anything above 0% while you are not touching it, then you know for certain you have an issue
if you're in the market for a one tool fits all for all your car needs, OBD11 is available for £50. if you're looking just for this issue, a cheap bluetooth dongle and "Torque" app (around £20 in total) will show you the throttle position logged as a percentage while you're driving. If it's anything above 0% while you are not touching it, then you know for certain you have an issue
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