APR Stage 1 - options

[LeMur9]

Evening folks,

So a bit of a random thread and a long time since I last posted but;

I’m currently looking at potentially buying a stage 1 APR time for my mk7 golf gti, I have a few options and would like some feedback from those who’ve owned / run a golf with a tune.

I have looked at pricing and options, VRS in Northampton have a full stage 1 map + recommended parts (VWR R600 + Turbo Techs inlet hose) for around the 1900 mark.

I was thinking I could potentially go to stage 2 with my 2500 budget if I lose the VWR r600 and buy a decat downpipe.

So my quandary ... firstly, how good / necessary is the intake, I’ve never run APR before and am keen to understand if it really makes any difference to a drop in ?

Secondly, in terms of decatted dp’s, how difficult are they to pull out come MOT time ?

Lastly, is blowing my full budget to go stage 2 (sans an induction kit) the better option ? Or is graduating preferable to see how the car deals with the new in/outputs as well as being able to keep everything name brand ?

The car is used as a daily commuter, 60miles of mway plus 10-15 of a roads, a child hauler, a shopping vehicle and all in between.

I’m kind of in a pickle.

Any and all feedback welcome.

Cheers

[Olas]

A standard air filter flows enough air for 400hp so you don’t need an intake, depends if you like the increased NVH.

Downpipe can be easy or horrible depending on access - get under the car and have a look.

Have you look at motech performance? They offer several calibration options that people generally regard as prefereable to APR but much of it is personal pereference

[LeMur9]

Olas said:

A standard air filter flows enough air for 400hp so you don’t need an intake, depends if you like the increased NVH.

Downpipe can be easy or horrible depending on access - get under the car and have a look.

Have you look at motech performance? They offer several calibration options that people generally regard as prefereable to APR but much of it is personal pereference

I had seen It mentioned elsewhere that the intake was over kill, wasn’t sure how true it was.

Decatted down pipe sound pretty good with an oem cat back ( a friend has a similar set up ) but I’m concerned that come MOT time it’s going to be a PITA and don’t think there’s any sport cats out there that will be any less trouble (but are far more expensive) so I’ll have to check that out.

I’ve looked pretty much everywhere to be honest, I’m going on the customer base / satisfaction rate / customer service with APR in all honesty. I’ve not run a tuned/modified VW in close to 10 years so I’m still picking away at the info as I can.

[Olas]

Keep the factory down pipe but remove it and smash the catalyst material out of it.
It will pass the visual inspection and if the engine is healthy it will pass the tailpipe test - save yourself a lot of hassle in the long run.

[novus]

R600 and TT intake provide higher gains when mapped than standard intake

[LeMur9]

novus said:

R600 and TT intake provide higher gains when mapped than standard intake

by 340 quids worth ?

If I was to buy a 100-200 quid open system how much difference would it realistically make ?

There are threads all over the place contradicting each other with regards to how well either or perform, some saying they can add 10-15bhp, others laughing at the idea and saying 1-2 or atleast a negligible amount would be 'best case'.

[Olas]

You need to compare flow data - look at how many CFM each filter will flow at X depression to get an idea of the ‘limit’ of the filters ability, then consider how much air your engine actually ingests - it will be very obvious when you look at the numbers.

A well designed and built TIP can see benefits on the dyno but your factory air filter is not a restriction up to circa 400hp. How much power will you have after the recalibration?

[LeMur9]

Olas said:

You need to compare flow data - look at how many CFM each filter will flow at X depression to get an idea of the ‘limit’ of the filters ability, then consider how much air your engine actually ingests - it will be very obvious when you look at the numbers.

A well designed and built TIP can see benefits on the dyno but your factory air filter is not a restriction up to circa 400hp. How much power will you have after the recalibration?

Pulled from the website - 98RON map - 316bhp+ & 381Ft.lbs+ Average depending on hardware

I've seen anywhere from 310 through 337 bhp from stage 1 and 330 - 358 at stage 2.

Every dealer I have spoken to has implied that the 330+ stage 1 and 350+ stage 2 cars are running closed induction kits … but they make their money on sales.

A friend of mine is running a stage 2 ECU, no TCU at all, cheaper (£155) open induction kit and has dyno'd at 347bhp ….. but I'm beginning to believe that the 888's are almost luck of the draw.

At this moment in time I have no desire to push 400 horses out of a FWD "hot hatch" ….




wait are you making me answer my own question ?

[ManicMunky]

Get yourself off to R-Tech

[AJB88]

I have been a long term APR customer.

When I got my Cupra 280 new in 2014, my car was used for development by REVO but eventually I switched it back to APR, Will @ VRS is also my local dealer for APR.

I ran the APR stage 2 tune for about 3.5 years. Here's my input.

If I was you I'd go APR Stage 2 file, APR DSG, turbo intake pipe (VRS do their own), sports cat downpipe or de-cat (up to you).

I had the development R600 for the Leon on my car (as well as their "cup intake" both were good but I wouldn't say "essential", the turbo intake pipe felt a better upgrade. I also ran the GFB DV+ with APR turbo muffler delete, would say neither are essential.

[LeMur9]

AJB88 said:

I have been a long term APR customer.

When I got my Cupra 280 new in 2014, my car was used for development by REVO but eventually I switched it back to APR, Will @ VRS is also my local dealer for APR.

I ran the APR stage 2 tune for about 3.5 years. Here's my input.

If I was you I'd go APR Stage 2 file, APR DSG, turbo intake pipe (VRS do their own), sports cat downpipe or de-cat (up to you).

I had the development R600 for the Leon on my car (as well as their "cup intake" both were good but I wouldn't say "essential", the turbo intake pipe felt a better upgrade. I also ran the GFB DV+ with APR turbo muffler delete, would say neither are essential.

I’m certainly considering this a solid option, I appreciate the feedback.

In total honesty I was more curious as to whether the stage 2 + DP was worth the upgrade over stage 1 straight out of the gate more than anything.

Only thing that’s a ball ache is my insurance goes up by £400 with the down pipe. It’s making me very hesitant as I’m still 7 months away from renewal.

[AJB88]

Just get the stage 1 then, turbo intake pipe.

[Mr911lover]

if you are looking to spend £1900 then you have a lot of options.

You could easily do an is38 swap which would give you more power for less.

Also before going for an r600 you really need to look at the intake pipe/elbow as that is where most of the gains are made.

[AJB88]

Agreed the IS38 was standard on my car, capable of 370 with stage 1 software.

[LeMur9]

Just a quick update,

I went to VRS today and had the stage 1 ECU + TCU software flashed, new coil packs, new spark plugs, oil service (filter + Millers), DSG service and TTs Turbo Intake …. oh and also a dogbone mount … can anyone share any info on whether the NVH characteristics calm down any after its 'bedded in' or is this my new daily ?

All in it came to a rather affordable 2300.

Next move will likely be new wheels + tyres (any recommendations on tyres ?), cat-back and lowering springs, as mentioned the car is a daily which is now plenty quick enough, described aptly by my mrs as "st your pants fast" after driving us home from the boozer. This will be a few months away yet as we are in the throws of buying / moving house.

Stock ran a 226bhp / 218lb/ft, flashed ran a 320bhp / 399lb/ft … i'll find out where I left the dyno sheet at some point and upload.

Appreciate everyone's input greatly and if anyone has any questions please feel free to ask away.

Ooh, lastly, Wind deflectors, smoked preferably … where from ? best fit ?

Cheers,

L.

[AJB88]

Was it a mount or insert? it will settle a little but not much. I ran solid metal mounts on my MK2 Leon TDI that rattled like hell.

[Mr911lover]

Ahh so it was your car i was on the VRS IG page.

i prefer the the feel of the car with the up-rated mount but it doesn't settle down that much.