Low emission zones: retrofitting Euro 6 to VW van / car?
Discussion
There doesn't seem to be much out there about retrofitting devices to passenger cars or light vans, so I thought I'd ask...
We live in a city centre that will almost certainly have a Clean Air Zone (one of 20+ proposed for UK) within the next couple of years, probably modelled on London's ULEZ. For those of you unaware, this means pre-Euro 6 diesels and pre-Euro 4 petrols will be subject to a daily charge - enforced with technology akin to London's congestion charge.
Our current main family vehicle is based on a 2013 VW Transport 2.0 TDI, which is Euro 5 compliant. Its annual mileage is about 5-6k and because it's often away overnight, we'd be charged twice for many trips. It wouldn't make economic sense to replace the van because of the charges (probably worth £25k at the moment, with that amount needed again to buy a brand new one), but £750 or so per year would soon get annoying at an assumed £10 per day.
This leaves me thinking two things:
1) there must be a fairly big market opportunity for a retrofitted device to take something like our van to Euro 6 compliance and;
2) whether there is already something obvious and cost-effective out there for light commercials and passenger cars.
I've done some light research and can't find a really obvious solution. There are some LPG and urea-injection kits, but I haven't seen a really clear market leader.
It might be worth spending a couple of grand on a camper van, but I also wondered about Euro 5 diesel cars. My in-laws have a 2014 Mk7 Golf TDI that is one of the early Euro 5 models... it's not worth as much as our van, but they will need to pay the ULEZ charge in due course as they live within the M25 (again, it's only used to escape to the country and not driven around town). A reasonably cost-effective retrofit could give these sorts of Euro 5 cars a new lease of life.
We live in a city centre that will almost certainly have a Clean Air Zone (one of 20+ proposed for UK) within the next couple of years, probably modelled on London's ULEZ. For those of you unaware, this means pre-Euro 6 diesels and pre-Euro 4 petrols will be subject to a daily charge - enforced with technology akin to London's congestion charge.
Our current main family vehicle is based on a 2013 VW Transport 2.0 TDI, which is Euro 5 compliant. Its annual mileage is about 5-6k and because it's often away overnight, we'd be charged twice for many trips. It wouldn't make economic sense to replace the van because of the charges (probably worth £25k at the moment, with that amount needed again to buy a brand new one), but £750 or so per year would soon get annoying at an assumed £10 per day.
This leaves me thinking two things:
1) there must be a fairly big market opportunity for a retrofitted device to take something like our van to Euro 6 compliance and;
2) whether there is already something obvious and cost-effective out there for light commercials and passenger cars.
I've done some light research and can't find a really obvious solution. There are some LPG and urea-injection kits, but I haven't seen a really clear market leader.
It might be worth spending a couple of grand on a camper van, but I also wondered about Euro 5 diesel cars. My in-laws have a 2014 Mk7 Golf TDI that is one of the early Euro 5 models... it's not worth as much as our van, but they will need to pay the ULEZ charge in due course as they live within the M25 (again, it's only used to escape to the country and not driven around town). A reasonably cost-effective retrofit could give these sorts of Euro 5 cars a new lease of life.
There are many companies offering products that claim to make your engine 'cleaner', and in some cases claim that they will meet a stricter (e.g. Euro 6) emissions limits. The issue is that there is no way to accredit a retrofitted technology on a light duty vehicle to PROVE it does, to the satisfaction of a low emission zone operator, never mind DVLA who aren't interested in amending the vehicle record post-registration in terms of pollutant emissions or CO2 figures.
Short of retrofitting a complete euro 6 powertrain, including DPF, SCR and anything else required it is highly unlikely it would actually meet the required standard. Ignore the numpties selling steam generators or other 'catalyst' devices that make ridiculous claims they cannot back up with science or evidence. Unless you retrofit e.g. SCR you simply cannot remove NOx from the tailpipe to bring a Euro 5 into compliance with the Euro 6 standard. On diesel engines not much has changed at the engine out level from Euro 4 - anything done since moving to high pressure common rail injection has involved tacking more bits on the end of the engine to clean up the tailpipe.
What is slightly comical about all this is that DVLA have not to date recorded the Euro standard for vehicles at the point of registration, so as a low emission zone operator you need to either build a database from scratch of vehicle users entering your zone and use proxies like date of registration to determine whether it is likely to be Euro 6, then fill in the blanks as you send people an invoice for not paying and asking them to provide the original COC from the vehicle manufacturer that proves the standard it met when it left the factory.
When a new emissions standard is brought in you'll get some early adopting manufacturers who have product ready to go on the first possible date you can get an approval, and others who will wait till the last possible minute to register an old generation vehicle. That can often be a 24 month period......that's a lot of registrations.
In your case I'd wait until a scheme is consulted on before worrying about it even happening. If it does happen either sell the vehicle to someone outside the zone who doesn't care, or change your use of it so you don't have to pay routinely e.g. by buying a cheap compliant vehicle or joining a car club for journeys within a zone.
Short of retrofitting a complete euro 6 powertrain, including DPF, SCR and anything else required it is highly unlikely it would actually meet the required standard. Ignore the numpties selling steam generators or other 'catalyst' devices that make ridiculous claims they cannot back up with science or evidence. Unless you retrofit e.g. SCR you simply cannot remove NOx from the tailpipe to bring a Euro 5 into compliance with the Euro 6 standard. On diesel engines not much has changed at the engine out level from Euro 4 - anything done since moving to high pressure common rail injection has involved tacking more bits on the end of the engine to clean up the tailpipe.
What is slightly comical about all this is that DVLA have not to date recorded the Euro standard for vehicles at the point of registration, so as a low emission zone operator you need to either build a database from scratch of vehicle users entering your zone and use proxies like date of registration to determine whether it is likely to be Euro 6, then fill in the blanks as you send people an invoice for not paying and asking them to provide the original COC from the vehicle manufacturer that proves the standard it met when it left the factory.
When a new emissions standard is brought in you'll get some early adopting manufacturers who have product ready to go on the first possible date you can get an approval, and others who will wait till the last possible minute to register an old generation vehicle. That can often be a 24 month period......that's a lot of registrations.
In your case I'd wait until a scheme is consulted on before worrying about it even happening. If it does happen either sell the vehicle to someone outside the zone who doesn't care, or change your use of it so you don't have to pay routinely e.g. by buying a cheap compliant vehicle or joining a car club for journeys within a zone.
Thanks, Adrian - that's a logical and helpful post.
We actually have a compliant petrol car as the urban runabout and, as you point out, most of the proposed regional schemes aren't yet in consultation. However, visiting in-laws in London in the van will attract the ULEZ from 2 years hence.
The practicalities of updating the database of "compliance" seems a big barrier, which is a shame as it looks like there would definitely a big market opportunity for retrofitting.
We actually have a compliant petrol car as the urban runabout and, as you point out, most of the proposed regional schemes aren't yet in consultation. However, visiting in-laws in London in the van will attract the ULEZ from 2 years hence.
The practicalities of updating the database of "compliance" seems a big barrier, which is a shame as it looks like there would definitely a big market opportunity for retrofitting.
I work on developing diesel engines, mapping them to meet Euro VI (heavy duty, but similar to the latest Euro 6 light duty regs) and other emissions standards.
The other barrier to a retro fit kit, besides actually proving you're compliant and getting approval, is that it's not just a case of hardware. There's lots of interconnected software logic that needs tuning. OBD is a requirement of the legislation now, plus tuning an SCR system is far from straightforward. You can bolt on all the hardware you want but unless you can make engine and aftertreatment talk to one another you'll never pass the latest regs.
It would be great, but I don't think you can do it.
Cummins offer a crate 2.8l engine and aftertreatment that meets some American regs, but I don't think it's been Euro certified
The other barrier to a retro fit kit, besides actually proving you're compliant and getting approval, is that it's not just a case of hardware. There's lots of interconnected software logic that needs tuning. OBD is a requirement of the legislation now, plus tuning an SCR system is far from straightforward. You can bolt on all the hardware you want but unless you can make engine and aftertreatment talk to one another you'll never pass the latest regs.
It would be great, but I don't think you can do it.
Cummins offer a crate 2.8l engine and aftertreatment that meets some American regs, but I don't think it's been Euro certified
Hey all,
I realise this post is an old one now but given how these vehicles (mine included!) tend to be with families for a long time I thought I would reply anyway!
I bought a 2014 T5 and have been trying to find a solution to the Euro 6 emissions requirements and pretty much to no avail.
However I have now stumbled across a company in the North West who are offering conversions on T5's, ironically through a friend who was looking for the same work to be done on his Land Rover Defender! I'm waiting for some details to come through from them at the moment but if this is still of interest to anyone let me know and I will share what i get and let you know if i go ahead with it!
I realise this post is an old one now but given how these vehicles (mine included!) tend to be with families for a long time I thought I would reply anyway!
I bought a 2014 T5 and have been trying to find a solution to the Euro 6 emissions requirements and pretty much to no avail.
However I have now stumbled across a company in the North West who are offering conversions on T5's, ironically through a friend who was looking for the same work to be done on his Land Rover Defender! I'm waiting for some details to come through from them at the moment but if this is still of interest to anyone let me know and I will share what i get and let you know if i go ahead with it!
I'd be interested in knowing the specifics of what they're offering (I worked in emissions legislation up until a few years ago, and am familiar with schemes that existed for retrofitting heavy duty vehicles)
I would caution you to take anything they say with a heavy pinch of salt, if it in any way suggests it changes the DVLA status of the vehicle, or makes it compliant with ULEZ's
I would caution you to take anything they say with a heavy pinch of salt, if it in any way suggests it changes the DVLA status of the vehicle, or makes it compliant with ULEZ's
b6wdy said:
I realise this post is an old one now but given how these vehicles (mine included!) tend to be with families for a long time I thought I would reply anyway!
Correct! We still have our van and our Clean Air Zone starts in October by the look of things.
We'll probably drive around it, but there's one particular spot that will make it pretty inconvenient. I'd be prepared to have something retrofitted if it definitely achieved compliance... and I imagine a vehicle so fitted would probably retain some of the conversion value on the used market.
Hello to everyone! My family grew up quickly to 5 members in total. Therefore we are looking at buying a T6 or a Defender 110 Euro6 as we love camping. Obviously, we don't have the money for a T6 Multivanand I can't find somewhere a Euro6 Defender. So I started to search for retrofiting Euro6 on Euro5 cars. I found this:
https://www.cybrand.co.uk/defender
What do you think?
https://www.cybrand.co.uk/defender
What do you think?
It certainly looks interesting. Hardware aside, I imagine the main issue would be to have the retrofitted vehicle tested and added to a register of compliant vehicles. I've only skimmed the link above but didn't see anything mentioned?
We'll keep our Euro 5 Transporter indefinitely. In the meantime, I split our accompanying car into two: a Fabia for urban duties and an S3 for the rest.
We'll keep our Euro 5 Transporter indefinitely. In the meantime, I split our accompanying car into two: a Fabia for urban duties and an S3 for the rest.
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