New tyres droning - any ideas?
Discussion
This is a weird one...
I just had 3 new Pirelli P7 tyres fitted to my Audi A3 Sportback to replace 3 similar worn-out tyres, they also did a front-wheel alignment. Since then (only about a week or so) I can hear significant DRONING coming from the whole front of the car - it becomes audible at about 30mph and seems to peak around 50mph. The car drives and handles fine, no vibration through the steering wheel (like I did get a little with the old tyres) but this persistent drone is highly annoying! It also makes me think "something" must be wrong.
The only difference between the old and new tyres is that the old ones had A0 (meaning Audi) and the new ones have K1 (which I thought meant "Ferrari" but apparently with Pirelli is just the designation of the rubber or something). I HAVE noticed that the tread pattern is slightly different, one of the four main grooves is a different width on the 3 new tyres than it was before. But could that really make them sound so different, and so much louder?
The tyre man says he has never heard of tyres doing this before, he suggests a wheel bearing might be going - he's going to check for this, but it seems like some coincidence? Or is this the mostly likely explanation? It's hard to tell whether the sound is coming from just one side, obviously I am sitting at the front right so it seems like that one, but if I lean into the middle while driving it seems to be coming from everywhere, certainly the front 2 wheels...
Could it just be that the new tyres need to settle in i.e. slightly wear according to my car's geometry? Will they settle down? I've probably done 200 miles since putting them on and it's as loud as ever, it even seems louder but perhaps that's just because I'm "tuned in" now and listening out for it constantly. It's not difficult to hear once you know it's there.
I would be interested to know if anybody else has experienced this and what they would suggest! I'm taking it back to the tyre place on Thursday.
I just had 3 new Pirelli P7 tyres fitted to my Audi A3 Sportback to replace 3 similar worn-out tyres, they also did a front-wheel alignment. Since then (only about a week or so) I can hear significant DRONING coming from the whole front of the car - it becomes audible at about 30mph and seems to peak around 50mph. The car drives and handles fine, no vibration through the steering wheel (like I did get a little with the old tyres) but this persistent drone is highly annoying! It also makes me think "something" must be wrong.
The only difference between the old and new tyres is that the old ones had A0 (meaning Audi) and the new ones have K1 (which I thought meant "Ferrari" but apparently with Pirelli is just the designation of the rubber or something). I HAVE noticed that the tread pattern is slightly different, one of the four main grooves is a different width on the 3 new tyres than it was before. But could that really make them sound so different, and so much louder?
The tyre man says he has never heard of tyres doing this before, he suggests a wheel bearing might be going - he's going to check for this, but it seems like some coincidence? Or is this the mostly likely explanation? It's hard to tell whether the sound is coming from just one side, obviously I am sitting at the front right so it seems like that one, but if I lean into the middle while driving it seems to be coming from everywhere, certainly the front 2 wheels...
Could it just be that the new tyres need to settle in i.e. slightly wear according to my car's geometry? Will they settle down? I've probably done 200 miles since putting them on and it's as loud as ever, it even seems louder but perhaps that's just because I'm "tuned in" now and listening out for it constantly. It's not difficult to hear once you know it's there.
I would be interested to know if anybody else has experienced this and what they would suggest! I'm taking it back to the tyre place on Thursday.
Thanks for the reply. How would I be able to tell if they were directional? According to this answer they are not:
https://tyres.rezulteo.co.uk/tyre-advice/qa/tyre-b...
I have checked that the OUTSIDE label is correctly visible, at least on the front ones. The tyre place I went to is a reputable one, they say that they are confident the tyres were fitted correctly and I have no reason to disbelieve them...but something is amiss!
https://tyres.rezulteo.co.uk/tyre-advice/qa/tyre-b...
I have checked that the OUTSIDE label is correctly visible, at least on the front ones. The tyre place I went to is a reputable one, they say that they are confident the tyres were fitted correctly and I have no reason to disbelieve them...but something is amiss!
LOL - the weird thing is that I have had these types of tyres for years, and one of the things I liked about them was how really quiet they were!
The tread pattern with the new ones is only slightly different - one of the 4 grooves is now a slightly different width than it was before. Could that really be enough to change them from quiet to LOUD? What other factors could be in play?
The annoying thing is that the tyre place may not consider the tyres "faulty" and I can't necessarily get a refund just because of this issue. I don't want to get stuck with a noisy car.
Could it be the bearings? Or could the tyres just settle down after a few more hundred miles?
The tread pattern with the new ones is only slightly different - one of the 4 grooves is now a slightly different width than it was before. Could that really be enough to change them from quiet to LOUD? What other factors could be in play?
The annoying thing is that the tyre place may not consider the tyres "faulty" and I can't necessarily get a refund just because of this issue. I don't want to get stuck with a noisy car.
Could it be the bearings? Or could the tyres just settle down after a few more hundred miles?
SteveW117 said:
Thanks for the reply. How would I be able to tell if they were directional? According to this answer they are not:
https://tyres.rezulteo.co.uk/tyre-advice/qa/tyre-b...
I have checked that the OUTSIDE label is correctly visible, at least on the front ones. The tyre place I went to is a reputable one, they say that they are confident the tyres were fitted correctly and I have no reason to disbelieve them...but something is amiss!
If it states 'outside' on the outside then they are fitted the right way round https://tyres.rezulteo.co.uk/tyre-advice/qa/tyre-b...
I have checked that the OUTSIDE label is correctly visible, at least on the front ones. The tyre place I went to is a reputable one, they say that they are confident the tyres were fitted correctly and I have no reason to disbelieve them...but something is amiss!
Sounds like the tread pattern/possible compound change has caused the issue.
If the revised tyre construction was causing the issue, do I have grounds for suggesting the tyres are "faulty" and requesting a refund/replacement? Is this a common issue, because the tyre man said not?
The tyre man also said that they could send the tyres back under warranty, but that in the meantime I would have to buy 3 new tyres...and if Pirelli deemed them not to be faulty then I would not get a refund. So I'd be left with 3 unwanted tyres and £300 in the red!
It may well be that the tyres are not "faulty" from Pirelli's perspective - and it may even be that somebody else could listen to this drone and say it's well within normal limits. In which case -- what do I do? Assuming the tyre place doesn't find any issue with the tyres or wheel bearings?
The tyre man also said that they could send the tyres back under warranty, but that in the meantime I would have to buy 3 new tyres...and if Pirelli deemed them not to be faulty then I would not get a refund. So I'd be left with 3 unwanted tyres and £300 in the red!
It may well be that the tyres are not "faulty" from Pirelli's perspective - and it may even be that somebody else could listen to this drone and say it's well within normal limits. In which case -- what do I do? Assuming the tyre place doesn't find any issue with the tyres or wheel bearings?
Just listening to this, it's not a million miles away from what I am hearing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpsLaSzcAu4
The guy said the front driver's side wheel was misaligned and he corrected it. Could one be related to the other? Maybe a worn bearing caused the misalignment? Or having it correctly aligned has "exposed" the worn bearing? I suppose I am looking for some explanation as to why changing tyres and having wheel alignment would have brought this to light!
I suppose I will find out when they examine the bearings more closely - thanks to all who have replied anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpsLaSzcAu4
The guy said the front driver's side wheel was misaligned and he corrected it. Could one be related to the other? Maybe a worn bearing caused the misalignment? Or having it correctly aligned has "exposed" the worn bearing? I suppose I am looking for some explanation as to why changing tyres and having wheel alignment would have brought this to light!
I suppose I will find out when they examine the bearings more closely - thanks to all who have replied anyway.
If it sounds similar to that video, it's likely a wheel bearing. Maybe the tyre change set it off, tyre changes can throw off things when they are done.
We had what you are describing, noise comes in at 30mph, quietens down at 60-70mph, on our (now sold)XC90. Wasn't the wheel bearings however, and it sounded more like a jet engine spooling up, rather than the growl of a bad wheel bearing. Was never able to pinpoint what it was, and overall lived with it through 40,000 miles and many tyre changes.
We had what you are describing, noise comes in at 30mph, quietens down at 60-70mph, on our (now sold)XC90. Wasn't the wheel bearings however, and it sounded more like a jet engine spooling up, rather than the growl of a bad wheel bearing. Was never able to pinpoint what it was, and overall lived with it through 40,000 miles and many tyre changes.
Sounds like “tread stepping” to me, quite a few VAG cars seem prone to it my wife’s Leon really used to suffer when fitted with Pirellis.
Tyre chap can’t be that good if he hasn’t heard of it!
IIRC there are s couple of causes, the usual one is down to wear characteristics that creates tread blocks ofbuneve heights, but these tyres are new, so I would be looking again at alignment especially if it didn’t do it before. Otherwise maybe the Audi fitment had a design tweak that stopped it.
Tread stepping sounds exactly like a failed wheel bearing. My guess is that the tyre place will tell you it’s this, charge you to replace the bearing and the noise will still be there.
The easiest way to be sure is to try totally different tyres but that’s expensive unless you can strike a deal along the lines of a refund if different tyres fix it. Problem is, if they don’t you have paid for 2 sets.
Edited to add.
Did you say you had only replaced 3 tyres? That means you possibly have mismatched tyres on the same axle. I also assume that you moved the older tyre to the front as new ones should go on the rear. It could therefore be coming from tread stepping on the old worn tyre, maybe the first step is to change that do you have 4 new tyres the same.
This issue is trial and error to fix, each option will cost you and may not fix it. It’s a process of elimination.
Tyre chap can’t be that good if he hasn’t heard of it!
IIRC there are s couple of causes, the usual one is down to wear characteristics that creates tread blocks ofbuneve heights, but these tyres are new, so I would be looking again at alignment especially if it didn’t do it before. Otherwise maybe the Audi fitment had a design tweak that stopped it.
Tread stepping sounds exactly like a failed wheel bearing. My guess is that the tyre place will tell you it’s this, charge you to replace the bearing and the noise will still be there.
The easiest way to be sure is to try totally different tyres but that’s expensive unless you can strike a deal along the lines of a refund if different tyres fix it. Problem is, if they don’t you have paid for 2 sets.
Edited to add.
Did you say you had only replaced 3 tyres? That means you possibly have mismatched tyres on the same axle. I also assume that you moved the older tyre to the front as new ones should go on the rear. It could therefore be coming from tread stepping on the old worn tyre, maybe the first step is to change that do you have 4 new tyres the same.
This issue is trial and error to fix, each option will cost you and may not fix it. It’s a process of elimination.
Edited by blueg33 on Wednesday 19th December 04:50
Thanks for all the suggestions/comments.
I am currently thinking that wearing wheel bearing is the most likely - it seems to have become steadily louder over the past week (2 weeks since new tyres) which surely couldn't be attributable to the tyres alone? It's all down to perception but that's my assessment - it wasn't very noticeable a few days ago but I don't think you could miss it now!
3/4 tyres are brand new and the other is only a year old - so tyre wear seems unlikely. They did realign the driver's front wheel and it doesn't "feel" off now. Anyway it's going in tomorrow so they can check all of that - and hopefully diagnose some actual cause. I have already lined up another garage for a second-opinion, I would rather not go down the "trial and error" route!
Apart from minor differences in tread these are the exact same tyres I have been running for years on this car with no issues whatsoever - so it's surely something else. Car has 93,000 miles and never had new wheel bearings to my knowledge, so perhaps that explanation doesn't seem so far-fetched...
Car is FWD so new tyres are on the front, which I assume is correct.
I am currently thinking that wearing wheel bearing is the most likely - it seems to have become steadily louder over the past week (2 weeks since new tyres) which surely couldn't be attributable to the tyres alone? It's all down to perception but that's my assessment - it wasn't very noticeable a few days ago but I don't think you could miss it now!
3/4 tyres are brand new and the other is only a year old - so tyre wear seems unlikely. They did realign the driver's front wheel and it doesn't "feel" off now. Anyway it's going in tomorrow so they can check all of that - and hopefully diagnose some actual cause. I have already lined up another garage for a second-opinion, I would rather not go down the "trial and error" route!
Apart from minor differences in tread these are the exact same tyres I have been running for years on this car with no issues whatsoever - so it's surely something else. Car has 93,000 miles and never had new wheel bearings to my knowledge, so perhaps that explanation doesn't seem so far-fetched...
Car is FWD so new tyres are on the front, which I assume is correct.
SteveW117 said:
Thanks for all the suggestions/comments.
I am currently thinking that wearing wheel bearing is the most likely - it seems to have become steadily louder over the past week (2 weeks since new tyres) which surely couldn't be attributable to the tyres alone? It's all down to perception but that's my assessment - it wasn't very noticeable a few days ago but I don't think you could miss it now!
3/4 tyres are brand new and the other is only a year old - so tyre wear seems unlikely. They did realign the driver's front wheel and it doesn't "feel" off now. Anyway it's going in tomorrow so they can check all of that - and hopefully diagnose some actual cause. I have already lined up another garage for a second-opinion, I would rather not go down the "trial and error" route!
Apart from minor differences in tread these are the exact same tyres I have been running for years on this car with no issues whatsoever - so it's surely something else. Car has 93,000 miles and never had new wheel bearings to my knowledge, so perhaps that explanation doesn't seem so far-fetched...
Car is FWD so new tyres are on the front, which I assume is correct.
Ok fair enough.I am currently thinking that wearing wheel bearing is the most likely - it seems to have become steadily louder over the past week (2 weeks since new tyres) which surely couldn't be attributable to the tyres alone? It's all down to perception but that's my assessment - it wasn't very noticeable a few days ago but I don't think you could miss it now!
3/4 tyres are brand new and the other is only a year old - so tyre wear seems unlikely. They did realign the driver's front wheel and it doesn't "feel" off now. Anyway it's going in tomorrow so they can check all of that - and hopefully diagnose some actual cause. I have already lined up another garage for a second-opinion, I would rather not go down the "trial and error" route!
Apart from minor differences in tread these are the exact same tyres I have been running for years on this car with no issues whatsoever - so it's surely something else. Car has 93,000 miles and never had new wheel bearings to my knowledge, so perhaps that explanation doesn't seem so far-fetched...
Car is FWD so new tyres are on the front, which I assume is correct.
No - new tyres always on the rear unless you have different sizes front and rear. Regardless of drivetrain. I still find it amazing that so many petrolheads don't know this and tyre fitters should know better so that they can advise their customers. Its well documented.
Yokohoma explain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOUnOMaCCZ4
Weird - I have always had new tyres put on the front, sometimes they would move the older ones to the back. This is at several different tyre places over the years...made sense to me, since the front wheels are doing the "hard work" and you would want your best tyres there? Not sure if that's relevant to my current issue, but interesting.
At this point in time I am positively hoping it will be the bearing - something that should be diagnosable and fixable! I don't want to be stuck with a "mystery noise" that never goes away. I definitely think it's got louder though, a few days ago I was thinking "Am I the only one hearing this?" whereas now I don't think anyone could miss it. I'll find out soon enough I guess.
Thanks everyone for the input.
At this point in time I am positively hoping it will be the bearing - something that should be diagnosable and fixable! I don't want to be stuck with a "mystery noise" that never goes away. I definitely think it's got louder though, a few days ago I was thinking "Am I the only one hearing this?" whereas now I don't think anyone could miss it. I'll find out soon enough I guess.
Thanks everyone for the input.
blueg33 said:
Ok fair enough.
No - new tyres always on the rear unless you have different sizes front and rear. Regardless of drivetrain. I still find it amazing that so many petrolheads don't know this and tyre fitters should know better so that they can advise their customers. Its well documented.
Yokohoma explain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOUnOMaCCZ4
That is not aimed at all Pistonheads types. No - new tyres always on the rear unless you have different sizes front and rear. Regardless of drivetrain. I still find it amazing that so many petrolheads don't know this and tyre fitters should know better so that they can advise their customers. Its well documented.
Yokohoma explain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOUnOMaCCZ4
It is generally advised to put best tyres on rear to reduce the likelihood of oversteer which most people find harder to control, and rear is lighter in most cars so more likely to aquaplane in standing water. But I still prefer best tyres on steering and (main) braking wheels and am not too worried about oversteer. But then I drive a very old 911.
No such thing as always
Next time I get new tyres I'll suggest this and see what they say! Perhaps you have to be driving at the limit to really notice any difference. Since using this make of tyre my front and rear wheels have generally stayed in touch with the tarmac pretty well.
Thanks to all who replied above - my issue has been diagnosed as a worn wheel bearing and (touch wood) is being fixed as we speak. Interestingly the wheel with the issue was the only one they didn't put a new tyre on...
...and the reason they didn't is that I bashed this wheel on the kerb last year and popped its tyre then! Perhaps that rattled the bearing and is the reason it's gone now.
Drive safely everyone.
Thanks to all who replied above - my issue has been diagnosed as a worn wheel bearing and (touch wood) is being fixed as we speak. Interestingly the wheel with the issue was the only one they didn't put a new tyre on...
...and the reason they didn't is that I bashed this wheel on the kerb last year and popped its tyre then! Perhaps that rattled the bearing and is the reason it's gone now.
Drive safely everyone.
blueg33 said:
There are loads of vids that show you dont need to be drving hard to lose the back end if you have the tyres with the least grip at the back.
It amazes me how many people will ignore the advice of the tyre makers because obviously they don't know anything about how tyres work best.
Have you ever driven a seventies 911 in the wet It amazes me how many people will ignore the advice of the tyre makers because obviously they don't know anything about how tyres work best.
It is the light front end we worry about, not the back breaking away (unless you lift off suddenly mid corner).
As I said, no such thing as always.
PS Clue: the engine, and the weight balance, is the other way around in a 911.
Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff