Help! 2008 Audi S6 Avant - Timing Chain failure?

[jimmybell]

Hi Team PH - Can you help?

A good friend of mine has had the worst happens it seems... on a routine drive (by chance right by my house) his S6 engine misfired and then conked out with a complete loss of power.

His usual local mechanic has been out to investigate in-situ and diagnosed it as timing chain failure (and presumably there may be associated other consequences to this).

The car is a 2008 estate, 115k miles, serviced regularly, located in South London. It's the V10.

I did a bit of googling and it seems like this is a known problem on higher mile cars, and requires engine out for replacement/repair. Anyone have any experience?

Also looking for any recommendations of tried and tested Audi/RS specialists who could be trusted with these works, ideally local to South/SW London. Some quotes have come back at pretty eye watering levels so far, so thought i'd post here to see if we can resurrect the beast more economically.

Many thanks!

Edited by jimmybell on Thursday 10th May 10:19

[seyre1972]

Hi - sorry to hear of your friends troubles.

I assume this is the V8 4.2L ? In which case it's engine out to swap the timing chain (if it's gone likely other damage has been done)

I used 4 Rings over in Dartford for my S4. Ex Audi mechanics - happy to recommend.

Best of luck.

[jimmybell]

seyre1972 said:

Hi - sorry to hear of your friends troubles.

I assume this is the V8 4.2L ? In which case it's engine out to swap the timing chain (if it's gone likely other damage has been done)

I used 4 Rings over in Dartford for my S4. Ex Audi mechanics - happy to recommend.

Best of luck.

Erp - sorry - should of said - it's the V10.

[seyre1972]

jimmybell said:

Erp - sorry - should of said - it's the V10.

Ah !! - teach me to read the initial post properly ...... Still would recommend Four Rings however.

Timing chain is still at the back however (so engine out likely)

Audi V10

[youngsyr]

Can't offer much help, but as a fellow owner I'd be interested in hearing what the outcome is.

[jimmybell]

youngsyr said:

Can't offer much help, but as a fellow owner I'd be interested in hearing what the outcome is.

Are you aware of any preventative maintenance? (or any other forums where S6 owners gather?)

I imagine it's pretty difficult - looking at the engine photos it couldn't be in a worse place for access. Surprised a chain would go though, belts sure.. but chains? you'd hope a modern audi would have been stress tested beyond 115k.

[youngsyr]

jimmybell said:

youngsyr said:

Can't offer much help, but as a fellow owner I'd be interested in hearing what the outcome is.

Are you aware of any preventative maintenance? (or any other forums where S6 owners gather?)

I imagine it's pretty difficult - looking at the engine photos it couldn't be in a worse place for access. Surprised a chain would go though, belts sure.. but chains? you'd hope a modern audi would have been stress tested beyond 115k.

Not for the timing chain, it's supposed to be good for the life of the car, as far as I'm aware.

You hear about adjusters and pulleys wearing out (another engine out job), but I thought the car was supposed to tell you about those so you can fix them before any serious damage?


You could try RS246.com, there tend to be more sporty Audi model owners on there.

[DickyC]

We had one for sale. The guvnor bought it at auction with a slight misfire. The mechanic did an internet search and diagnosed timing chains. A new set of chains and sprockets and tensioners were bought and fitted. The misfire wasn't cured. After much soul searching the mechanic was persuaded to do it again with another set. Same result. Harsh words. Mechanic quit. Car sold at a loss to a guy who really wanted it and was prepared to spend a lot on it. Where he took it I don't know but it didn't come back. By now there will be Audi V10 specialists. Don't assume Audi will be able to fix it. They might, but there are no guarantees.

[jeremyc]

jimmybell said:

Also looking for any recommendations of tried and tested Audi/RS specialists who could be trusted with these works, ideally local to South/SW London. Some quotes have come back at pretty eye watering levels so far, so thought i'd post here to see if we can resurrect the beast more economically.

AVS in Leatherhead.
Unit 5
Rear of 1-2 Brook Way
Leatherhead
Surrey
KT22 7NA
01372 383038

Don't expect shiny marble palaces or plush courtesy cars though.

(No connection, other than as a happy customer).

[youngsyr]

DickyC said:

We had one for sale. The guvnor bought it at auction with a slight misfire. The mechanic did an internet search and diagnosed timing chains. A new set of chains and sprockets and tensioners were bought and fitted. The misfire wasn't cured. After much soul searching the mechanic was persuaded to do it again with another set. Same result. Harsh words. Mechanic quit. Car sold at a loss to a guy who really wanted it and was prepared to spend a lot on it. Where he took it I don't know but it didn't come back. By now there will be Audi V10 specialists. Don't assume Audi will be able to fix it. They might, but there are no guarantees.

Please tell me they at least did a carbon clean before dropping the engine?

[DickyC]

youngsyr said:

Please tell me they at least did a carbon clean before dropping the engine?

Don't know, I'm afraid. I just remember the incident as very acrimonious. The mechanic was very capable. Usually. That one beat him though.

[jimmybell]

youngsyr said:

DickyC said:

We had one for sale. The guvnor bought it at auction with a slight misfire. The mechanic did an internet search and diagnosed timing chains. A new set of chains and sprockets and tensioners were bought and fitted. The misfire wasn't cured. After much soul searching the mechanic was persuaded to do it again with another set. Same result. Harsh words. Mechanic quit. Car sold at a loss to a guy who really wanted it and was prepared to spend a lot on it. Where he took it I don't know but it didn't come back. By now there will be Audi V10 specialists. Don't assume Audi will be able to fix it. They might, but there are no guarantees.

Please tell me they at least did a carbon clean before dropping the engine?

Is that a common issue/fix? Our car's diagnosis is based on roadside investigation so may not be 100%, though i think a code reader was connected and codes thrown about the camshaft.

[Scabutz]

jimmybell said:

Is that a common issue/fix? Our car's diagnosis is based on roadside investigation so may not be 100%, though i think a code reader was connected and codes thrown about the camshaft.

Yes all the FSI engines suffer from it. Because they are direct injection carbon builds up on the back of the valves. when it gets really bad it misfires. You need to pull the inlet manifold to inspect it. If is bad it can be cleaned, there are places specialising in this. Don't think this usually results in complete loss of power though

The timing chain shouldn't go if the car has been look after. I seem to recall that if the oil isn't regularly changed it can cause problems with the chain tensioner (noted by rattle on start up) that can eventually lead to chain failure. If the chain is gone then its engine out to replace. If that needs doing then you should consider the cats as well. They are also engine out to replace and its going to be 000s to drop the engine.

Defo needs a specialist to look. Even the main dealers don't see these cars often

[a7x88]

I would get the diagnosis double checked. From all i've read timing chains on the V10 are very rarely an issue - unlike the v8.

I had carbon buildup on mine that caused some issues with the intake manifold.
Most recently though mine misfired very badly and ran like an absolute pig - I thought a it had jumped a tooth or something it was that bad. Turns out it was one single faulty coilpack.

Im west of London but it may be worth a trip to "The Phirm" (in Camberley) - they were recommended to me by people on here and all I can say is that they are beyond excellent. They are not the cheapest but they know VAG's inside out. There is always C6 S and RS6's as well as R8's there so they are experienced with the V10 motor.

Edited by a7x88 on Friday 11th May 14:09

Edited by a7x88 on Friday 11th May 14:09

[barryrs]

Having owned one for around 7 years and being a fairly avid reader of the Audi forums I cant say that im aware of any reported timing chain failures.

As mentioned; carbon build up is the biggest issue however at 115k miles I would also consider the inlet manifold flap shaft as these can snap being made of plastic. You have 5 flaps (one set each side) all linked on a shaft of molded plastic linked to an actuator and they can break.

Another problem that causes misfires is the cyclonic oil separator; this is spring operated and can jam up over time.

Edited by barryrs on Friday 11th May 14:25

[youngsyr]

Scabutz said:

jimmybell said:

Is that a common issue/fix? Our car's diagnosis is based on roadside investigation so may not be 100%, though i think a code reader was connected and codes thrown about the camshaft.

Yes all the FSI engines suffer from it. Because they are direct injection carbon builds up on the back of the valves. when it gets really bad it misfires. You need to pull the inlet manifold to inspect it. If is bad it can be cleaned, there are places specialising in this. Don't think this usually results in complete loss of power though

The timing chain shouldn't go if the car has been look after. I seem to recall that if the oil isn't regularly changed it can cause problems with the chain tensioner (noted by rattle on start up) that can eventually lead to chain failure. If the chain is gone then its engine out to replace. If that needs doing then you should consider the cats as well. They are also engine out to replace and its going to be 000s to drop the engine.

Defo needs a specialist to look. Even the main dealers don't see these cars often

Should probably start a list of jobs to do whilst the engine is out (if it's even salvageable). If it were my engine coming out, I'd look to do all of these:

- Cats
- Chain Tensioners
- lambda sensors
- [rear seals?]

[jimmybell]

Managed a video late last night, it captures the sound pretty accurately.

Youtube - audi s6 v10 - timing chain failure?

[Alucidnation]

a7x88 said:

I would get the diagnosis double checked. From all i've read timing chains on the V10 are very rarely an issue - unlike the v8.

Chains aren't a problem on the v8 either.

[youngsyr]

jimmybell said:

Managed a video late last night, it captures the sound pretty accurately.

Youtube - audi s6 v10 - timing chain failure?

Well, the fact that it runs at all is a good sign, in that the problem hasn't lunched the engine completely, but if it were my car I wouldn't run the engine at all until it has been looked at by someone who knows what they're doing.

Whereabouts are you? Perhaps a PHer with VCDS can do a full diagnostics report from the ECU to help pin the problem down?

Either way, I'd be getting an expert to look at it immediately. If that engine goes then it will pretty much write off the car.

[a7x88]

Alucidnation said:

Chains aren't a problem on the v8 either.

I thought they had some sort of issue that meant they need pretty regularly maintenance, may have been the tensioners or something instead?