VW Up! Dealer recommending cam belt change rip off or not?
Discussion
OK so daughter has had her Up! for 2 years now. It has main dealer FSH on a 12 plate was bought with around 21000 miles and had been serviced a month before purchase. She had an interim service at the main dealer last year. This years it's just on 28500 miles and has had a main service and MOT which it has passed with some advisories for which she has paid £299!
One of the advisories on the Inspection form from the Main Dealer (on the printed form they spell brake - break, fills you with confidence!) is a cam belt change for which they want the princely sum of £399 plus VAT!! So getting on for five hundred quid.
I've been looking into this and there seems to be contradictory information (or maybe lies!). The belt has automatic adjustment so shouldnt need any further adjustment. The belt is apparently Teflon coated for longevity. On the one hand they state the belt is a 'Lifetime' fit and will last 120 to 160000 miles and other advice is for cars built after 2009 that the belt is changed after 5 years. Seems to be a huge disparity.
I'll bet when they are selling the car they push that it's a Liftime cambelt and it doesn't need changing. When it comes to servicing they see it as a nice little earner and are actually taking the pee!
I can't see that a low mileage car that isn't ever driven hard actually needs it. Is there maybe someone that give me unbiased advice on this please?
One of the advisories on the Inspection form from the Main Dealer (on the printed form they spell brake - break, fills you with confidence!) is a cam belt change for which they want the princely sum of £399 plus VAT!! So getting on for five hundred quid.
I've been looking into this and there seems to be contradictory information (or maybe lies!). The belt has automatic adjustment so shouldnt need any further adjustment. The belt is apparently Teflon coated for longevity. On the one hand they state the belt is a 'Lifetime' fit and will last 120 to 160000 miles and other advice is for cars built after 2009 that the belt is changed after 5 years. Seems to be a huge disparity.
I'll bet when they are selling the car they push that it's a Liftime cambelt and it doesn't need changing. When it comes to servicing they see it as a nice little earner and are actually taking the pee!
I can't see that a low mileage car that isn't ever driven hard actually needs it. Is there maybe someone that give me unbiased advice on this please?
Timing belts should be changed according to the service schedule. Have a look and see what it says. There will be both a time
limit and a mileage limit. Change the belt at whichever limit is reached first.
Whatever the belt looks like, or is coated with, is largely irrelevant. The important bits are the chords that run Longitudinally
inside the belt. Because you can't see them to inspect them, it is not possible to judge the belt's condition by just looking at it.
Hence the time and mileage limits.
Miss a belt-change interval and you risk destroying the top end of the engine when the belt snaps.
Most of the stress on the belt will be when the engine is started. So although the mileage may be low, lots of short journeys
will put a lot of strain on it.
The adjustment you mention is a red herring. Belts stretch through normal use, so one of the pulleys will be sprung to
automatically compensate for the increased length. This has nothing to do with belt-change intervals.
limit and a mileage limit. Change the belt at whichever limit is reached first.
Whatever the belt looks like, or is coated with, is largely irrelevant. The important bits are the chords that run Longitudinally
inside the belt. Because you can't see them to inspect them, it is not possible to judge the belt's condition by just looking at it.
Hence the time and mileage limits.
Miss a belt-change interval and you risk destroying the top end of the engine when the belt snaps.
Most of the stress on the belt will be when the engine is started. So although the mileage may be low, lots of short journeys
will put a lot of strain on it.
The adjustment you mention is a red herring. Belts stretch through normal use, so one of the pulleys will be sprung to
automatically compensate for the increased length. This has nothing to do with belt-change intervals.
Traditionally VAG have been very vague re belt changes, it's been hard to get definitive information.
Different markets have different belt change intervals for the same engine
VAG change the recommendations for the same model, (depends on wind direction)
Different brands within the VAG group have different belt changes even though the same model of engines are used
The published 120,000 mile service interval is to appease the fleet market and not based on reality.
It's no wonder there is so much confusion around.
Still 5 yrs is about it for a belt IMO, get it done, but at a VAG indy.
Different markets have different belt change intervals for the same engine
VAG change the recommendations for the same model, (depends on wind direction)
Different brands within the VAG group have different belt changes even though the same model of engines are used
The published 120,000 mile service interval is to appease the fleet market and not based on reality.
It's no wonder there is so much confusion around.
Still 5 yrs is about it for a belt IMO, get it done, but at a VAG indy.
According to Skoda Citigo cambelt should be inspected at 160,00 miles (!) and 20,000 miles thereafter......not that I'll be waiting that long to change the belt on SWMBO's Citigo!
I'd be changing every 4 years or 60,000 if it was me.
Also remember that the Citigo has a separate waterpump and belt opposite to the cambelt so don't let any dealer / Indy tell you it has to be changed too!
You'll need to ask around as the VAG group sometimes do deals on cambelt changes. I steer well clear of VAG garages like the plague myself. I've learned through bitter experience that as soon as their fitters get Mastertech status they're off elsewhere so experience tends to be very thin on the ground......I don't trust them either!!
Find yourself a good Indy as they're worth their weight in gold!
I'd be changing every 4 years or 60,000 if it was me.
Also remember that the Citigo has a separate waterpump and belt opposite to the cambelt so don't let any dealer / Indy tell you it has to be changed too!
You'll need to ask around as the VAG group sometimes do deals on cambelt changes. I steer well clear of VAG garages like the plague myself. I've learned through bitter experience that as soon as their fitters get Mastertech status they're off elsewhere so experience tends to be very thin on the ground......I don't trust them either!!
Find yourself a good Indy as they're worth their weight in gold!
Evolved said:
I'd be pissed that they listed that on the MOT advisory.
I would agree if that were the case, though I took it to mean an advisory on the service documentation/receipt.OP, I agree with the advice to get it done, but at an independent. Unless there is an obligation to do so because of warranties etc, there's really no reason to take a car to a dealership to be worked on, a good independent will give you at least as good a job for far less outlay.
Also never believe anyone's claims of 100k+ cambelt intervals unless they're backed up with covering the repair bill if it lets go.
As others have said, get a quite from an independent garage. It doesn't even need to be a VW specialist really, changing cam belts isn't particularly difficult or specialist.
You could leave it, and it'll probably be fine for a bit longer, but if you're unlucky and it's not you'll probably end up with a bill running well into the thousands. Not worth the risk, IMO.
You could leave it, and it'll probably be fine for a bit longer, but if you're unlucky and it's not you'll probably end up with a bill running well into the thousands. Not worth the risk, IMO.
Cupramax said:
5 yrs for a cam belt change is pretty normal, as above if it goes you'll have even more to moan about. It's done on age or mileage, whichever comes first so low mileage is irrelevant, rubber perishes with age.
Agreed. We have an '05 Fiesta that has done only 43,500 miles. It's had its cambelt changed twice, mostly recently two months ago. Having looked at the belt that came off, I wouldn't have wanted to run it much longer as it was starting to 'go' between the teeth.Evolved said:
I'd be pissed that they listed that on the MOT advisory. Though I guess it's to be expected from the main dealers, anything to up their monthly quota.
Me angry, me no read post proper, dealer bad, they scum.
OP, get it done at an independent as mentioned before. I wouldn't leave it myself, if it were to go you'd have nobody to blame but yourself!
Yeah, it sounds like the time issue came up. I have a Skoda Citigo, so just an Up with a different badge. 15 reg, 31000 miles. No cam belt change at the last service. Like others have said, they deteriorate over time.
From the service schedule:
By Part
Spark plugs Replaced every 4 years or 40,000 miles
Pollen Filter Replaced every 2 years or 20,000 miles
Air Filter Replaced every 4 years or 40,000 miles
Timing Belt Check at 160,000 miles or Replaced every 4 years Estimated at around £299
Timing Belt inc pump? Check at 160,000 miles or Replaced every 4 years Estimated at around £369
Clean Rear Brake Drums Every 2 years
Brake Fluid Replaced every 3, 5, 7 years
From the service schedule:
By Part
Spark plugs Replaced every 4 years or 40,000 miles
Pollen Filter Replaced every 2 years or 20,000 miles
Air Filter Replaced every 4 years or 40,000 miles
Timing Belt Check at 160,000 miles or Replaced every 4 years Estimated at around £299
Timing Belt inc pump? Check at 160,000 miles or Replaced every 4 years Estimated at around £369
Clean Rear Brake Drums Every 2 years
Brake Fluid Replaced every 3, 5, 7 years
Edited by Solocle on Friday 26th May 12:17
elanfan said:
The belt is apparently Teflon coated for longevity. On the one hand they state the belt is a 'Lifetime' fit and will last 120 to 160000 miles and other advice is for cars built after 2009 that the belt is changed after 5 years. Seems to be a huge disparity.
The "after 2009" thing is it was every 4yrs before that, and 5yrs after.It's always felt like such a scam with VW UK though - daughter's 2011 Golf said check at 120K but everyone insisted it needed to be changed. Once you've been told you daren't ignore it.
My wife's 18mth old Tiguan is supposed to have a lifetime belt but I bet they start saying it needs to be changed. I suppose "lifetime" could be self-fulfilling if it breaks!
Apparently on VWs the belts themselves (even the older ones) virtually never break - it's the tensioners and water pumps that go. Everyone tells you to get the waterpump done too, if it's driven by the cambelt on Up.
InitialDave said:
... a good independent will give you at least as good a job for far less outlay.
If you really want to use the dealer they often have offers on for this kind of job, or will negotiate - if you can find someone who is bothered enough to negotiate.Turned out our local dealer could have done it for less than the indie we use. Yet they didn't quote that price at any of the several previous times they'd called me chasing the work. Another reason for never going back to the hateful dealer.
Solocle said:
Yeah, it sounds like the time issue came up. I have a Skoda Citigo, so just an Up with a different badge. 15 reg, 31000 miles. No cam belt change at the last service. Like others have said, they deteriorate over time.
From the service schedule:
By Part
Spark plugs Replaced every 4 years or 40,000 miles
Pollen Filter Replaced every 2 years or 20,000 miles
Air Filter Replaced every 4 years or 40,000 miles
Timing Belt Check at 160,000 miles or Replaced every 4 years Estimated at around £299
Timing Belt inc pump? Check at 160,000 miles or Replaced every 4 years Estimated at around £369
Clean Rear Brake Drums Every 2 years
Brake Fluid Replaced every 3, 5, 7 years
That's not from the service book in the car though - it wouldn't have prices on. Isn't that just the dealers idea of what they'd like you to have done?From the service schedule:
By Part
Spark plugs Replaced every 4 years or 40,000 miles
Pollen Filter Replaced every 2 years or 20,000 miles
Air Filter Replaced every 4 years or 40,000 miles
Timing Belt Check at 160,000 miles or Replaced every 4 years Estimated at around £299
Timing Belt inc pump? Check at 160,000 miles or Replaced every 4 years Estimated at around £369
Clean Rear Brake Drums Every 2 years
Brake Fluid Replaced every 3, 5, 7 years
Don't know much about these engines, but from what I've heard about the notorious clio cambelts, the problem there doesn't normally come from the cambelt snapping, but the timing going out when the pulleys/tensioners give up IIRC. As it's an interference engine, if the timing changes slightly the pistons and valves decide to mash together.
Depending on whether the Up's engine has vvt or has interference valves, this could possibly be why they're suggesting it, for the pulleys and tensioners rather than the belt itself. Just a theory
Depending on whether the Up's engine has vvt or has interference valves, this could possibly be why they're suggesting it, for the pulleys and tensioners rather than the belt itself. Just a theory
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