VW Golf GTi Mk II 16V

[busa_rush]

What's this worth, roughly ? Late 1987 Golf Mk II Gti with 190,000 miles, red, needs exhaust manifold gasket, front wheel bearing and handbrake adjusting. Some small rust patches.

Just thinking of this as a cheap track day car, any comments ? Is it worh it ?

Thanks

[iguana]

Not worth much really, has it got MOT? thats a lot of miles on an original engine & box if you are gunna thrash it on track.

Price depends almost entirely on condition, but I'd say sub £500, perhaps £150-200 if no MOT & not in great nick.

Mk2 16vs are a great basis for track cars (if you want fwd that is) I've got one but its had quite a lot of mods over standard in the power/handling/stopping depts to get it to where it is now, which is significantly quicker than standard, but still pretty inexpensive.

To be in a condition to take hard track abuse & not break something could cost you an easy couple of £grand on top of the purchace price tho & with a few upgrades & making it much more track orientated its easy for things to add up & the car to owe you £6k or more, you can have a darn nippy & bullet proof track car for that tho.

>> Edited by iguana on Monday 17th January 16:54

[busa_rush]

Thanks, it's had a new (recon)gearbox, clutch, engine mount and some other minor stuff including water pump last year. It's MOT'd until August, has a stainless exhaust and also had new piston rings last year too along with main bearings. Also has the original alloys, can't remember the name, Pireli possibly ?

It looks a bit tatty but that's mainly because it's never been cleaned or polished, I think a good wash and scrub would see it looking reasonably good.

Is the block the same as the current VAG 1.8T block ? What compression does it run as standard ?

I guess German & Swedish are pretty cheap for parts ?

Thanks

>> Edited by busa_rush on Monday 17th January 17:15

[iguana]

busa_rush said:

Is the block the same as the current VAG 1.8T block ? What compression does it run as standard ? I guess German & Swedish are pretty cheap for parts ?

Block- hmmm good question, not sure but dont think so tho.

Comp KR 16v= 10.0:1

G&S yeh they usually are, but always choose the better of the 2 quailties they offer as the cheaper stuff can be cack quality & the better one is normally O.E



Mungo- 20v is the head mate, not the block.

[edc]

Block must be different (if only minor) as the 16v head does not fit straight onto a 20V or 20VT bottom end. Some oilways do not line up, there are comparison pics about on the web. The KR 16v head will go onto a 2L 16v block no probs tho.

[busa_rush]

Thanks, what have people done with these engines, anybody supercharged/turbocharged them ? What are the main weakeneses with the engine ?

Just trying to get a feel for what I can do with it, can't leave it standard. I'm confident enough to replace the ECU/injection system with a mappable system and do some internal mods, just wondering what the scope is. Am I barking up the wrong tree with this engine ?

[wildeep]

Easier to drop a 20v turbo engine in than add a turbo to the 16v engine. I have done this in my MK2 and its running about 200BHP, more than enough through the front wheels.

[trooperiziz]

busa_rush said:

Thanks, what have people done with these engines, anybody supercharged/turbocharged them ? What are the main weakeneses with the engine ? Just trying to get a feel for what I can do with it, can't leave it standard. I'm confident enough to replace the ECU/injection system with a mappable system and do some internal mods, just wondering what the scope is. Am I barking up the wrong tree with this engine ?

This probably isn't any help to you, but my mk1 8v is now doing about 160bhp with a new head, big valves, new cam and new exhaust system. Reliability wise I've just had to replace the headgasket but I've been having cooling problems for the past year and have since realised that the gasket has been on its last legs for a while. It managed about 3000 miles and a track day with a dodgy gasket and is still going strong after the replacement, so it seems pretty solid.

If I were you, the first thing I would do would be to look at the braks and strip the interior, no real point in doing engine mods till you have sorted out the rest if you are building a track car.

[iguana]

busa- blimey I could write lots here, but in a nutshell tons to do to the old 16v engine if you want to, the 200bhp area is pos even sticking with the primitve K-jet injection, ok its stone age 1970s technology but it works well on the 16v & IMHO its just not worth changing it unless you are aiming for 200+ when throttle bodies etc seem to be the order of the day

In my Golfy I'm knocking on for 190bhp- 188bhp/156lbft & have standard injection with a tiny tweek & im still running standard cams.

All you could ever want to know about the 1.8/2.016v k-jet can be found on the links given on this thread-

www.clubgti.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52550&PN=1

1.8Ts are another step on- obiously big power numbers are posible like 350bhp plus, not cheap to do it properly tho.

[busa_rush]

Thanks iguana, excellent link, almost everything I wanted to know !

Are second hand tuning parts reasonably cheap/available ? Where's the best place to look ?

I'm new to VW, getting the car cheap and looking to play about, have some fun. Plans at the moment are along the lines of megaqquirt and spark, GSXR throttle bodies and some head work, keeping the 1.8 block for the time being as it's just had new bearings and rings.

[edc]

There's a bit of a debate whether GSXR bodies are the cheap viable alternative to something more conventional than say Jenveys. I've posted a couple of threads on it with some specs and links, in the engines and bikes forums. Seems to work perfectly well on other motors so I can't really see any real practical reason why it won't work here.

[busa_rush]

I've just driven it and it's a complete shed, brakes are spongey, clutch is very stiff and pedal returns very slowly, blown exhaust manifold, it's not just a gasket, must be cracked, doesn't idle until hot and even then it's very lumpy. Wheel bearing is more than whining, I can feel it grinding, it's about to go.

Is it worth buying for parts ? Anything about the very early 16V's worth having ?

[trooperiziz]

busa_rush said:

Is it worth buying for parts ? Anything about the very early 16V's worth having ?

It seems to be mainly interior trim that is getting hard to find these days, so if it has a good parcel shelf and door cards, they might be worth salvaging. Other than that, it's sounds like it could turn out to be a very expensive track car!

[edc]

You're never going to make any worthwhile money from selling off the interior alone over the purchase and transport cost.

[filmidget]

busa_rush said:

...brakes are spongey... clutch is very stiff... blown exhaust manifold... doesn't idle until hot and even then it's very lumpy... Wheel bearing is more than whining...

You would have 'serviced' the brakes before taking on track? New fluid and some braided hoses might fix that. Worst case it needs a new master cyl? (£35)

Probably just a new cable (<£10)

Ideal time to upgrade to a tubular jobby

Hmmm... maybe a little trickier - poss. Idle Stabiliser Valve? Aux air valve??? I think people have mixed results from cleaning?

Wheelbearings are not hugely expensive.

Depends entirely how cheap you are getting it, and how much will knock off for the above items... Could still be worth it. If not I'll give you £25 for the injection/box/etc

EDIT: Just noticed the "handbrake needs adjusting" comment in your first post - along with the "spongey brakes" it sounds like the common problem of seized rear calipers?

>> Edited by filmidget on Tuesday 18th January 12:54

[busa_rush]

Apparantly it's had a MkIII 16V gearbox fitted. Any issue with this ?

Are all the 16V's KR engine ? Is the head particularly good ? I gather I can fit this onto some VW 2.0 engines, eg Passat. From what I read it's a straight swap.

Will this engine mate to an Audi 80/90 front wheel drive transaxle ?

[edc]

busa_rush said:

Apparantly it's had a MkIII 16V gearbox fitted. Any issue with this ? Are all the 16V's KR engine ? Is the head particularly good ? I gather I can fit this onto some VW 2.0 engines, eg Passat. From what I read it's a straight swap. Will this engine mate to an Audi 80/90 front wheel drive transaxle ?

That will be an 02a-cda box, cable not rod change and stringer than the standard 020 type. Does the car also have the larger clutch (228mm? same as Vr6?). The head will go onto 9a/ABF blocks no probs. I think there are others too such as 3a/6a which are Audi engines which it will fit to. The head's not amazing but it's not bad. Can easily be worked and improved. Finally, all 16vs are Knot R engines unless you are asking are all mk2 16v Golfs KR engines.

[filmidget]

Wouldn't the cable change require significant mods in the shifter area for it all to work? Quite a major mod?

And the 3a is the 'shorter block' 2.0 8v Audi engine - I don't think the 16v head is a simple swap?

6a is the 16v 2.0 bottom end (similar to the 9a from Corrado/Passat)

[busa_rush]

Thanks everybody, much appreciated. I've passed on this one, after the test drive it's only good for spares, would need so much work doing, the seller is going to put it on ebay. Just too much work involved plus the fact it was stolen/recovered.

[alextgreen]

Idle is usually just the stabilisation valve filling up with gunk, see guide on www.gvk-motorsport.co.uk/

Judging by your description could be the cold start valve, there's a guide in the Haynes on diagnosing these. The Bentley manual is better than the Haynes and free:
http://volkswagen.msk.ru/vw_doc/eva2/index.html

I'm currently putting a late 16v car back together I picked up for very little money. Logging progress in my profile.