Discussion
Felt like writing something about this car which inspired my thoughts the other day. I'm in a rush so sorry if it reads badly. All very much IMHO:
When I saw the GTi badge with a red 'i' on the back of the Golf my dad has bought, it inspired nothing and I felt like falling asleep.
However, when he mentioned it is a diesel - not any, but the most modern, highest specific output, and one of the fastest diesels around (the 150bhp 1.9 version), I was in the drivers seat reversing out of the parking space before he had finished the sentence.
Whether that's a good sign for VW's diesels or a bad sign for their petrols is up to you, but if an engine can make you voluntarily go for a drive in a Mark 4 Golf, it must be fairly impressive. I had heard very good things about it, and didn't like the 1.8 turbo petrol anyway.
So, a few seconds down the road I realised it's far from quiet, but I put this down to the fact that it's the most powerful version of the exceedingly aged 8-valver and forgave it. Fortunately I have owned four Mark 4 Golfs so was also well prepared for the fact that it would be completely dull to drive - which it was.
So this left only the way the engine performed to put a grin on my face. It has a lot of low down torque like any VW PD unit. It's always been rather sinister fun to use them to lope along all day at around 2000 rpm, poking at the light and springy throttle to lunge through traffic, and slowing just as forcefully because of the over-servoed brakes. However, this version, when you decide not to change up into a higher gear, goes on to a strong top end, without any obvious 'switching' going on where a computer was changing something for more power. Its power delivery is almost petrol-like.
This, whilst its greatest triumph, is also its Achilles heel. Even though it drives like a petrol car, that petrol car is only an Austin Metro. It's still laggy, disappointing to rev, and indistinguishable audibly from the new Transit van.
Diesels seem to be at their best when you expect little. I've always like them and enjoyed following their rapid development, but have always accepted they are usually not as good as petrols. They can then be surprisingly good to drive - one recently even made me enjoy driving a Volvo, and that same 5-cylinder unit is also excellent in the family Audi A6.
However, stepping into a diesel expecting a lot appears only to disappoint. Technology is moving on however, and, one day, all diesels will be as good as a bad petrol.
My brother, who has a 90bhp 1.9 TDi Mark 3, begged to differ, declaring it awesomely quick and asking if he could have it...
Russ
'86 190E, '62 Elan.
When I saw the GTi badge with a red 'i' on the back of the Golf my dad has bought, it inspired nothing and I felt like falling asleep.
However, when he mentioned it is a diesel - not any, but the most modern, highest specific output, and one of the fastest diesels around (the 150bhp 1.9 version), I was in the drivers seat reversing out of the parking space before he had finished the sentence.
Whether that's a good sign for VW's diesels or a bad sign for their petrols is up to you, but if an engine can make you voluntarily go for a drive in a Mark 4 Golf, it must be fairly impressive. I had heard very good things about it, and didn't like the 1.8 turbo petrol anyway.
So, a few seconds down the road I realised it's far from quiet, but I put this down to the fact that it's the most powerful version of the exceedingly aged 8-valver and forgave it. Fortunately I have owned four Mark 4 Golfs so was also well prepared for the fact that it would be completely dull to drive - which it was.
So this left only the way the engine performed to put a grin on my face. It has a lot of low down torque like any VW PD unit. It's always been rather sinister fun to use them to lope along all day at around 2000 rpm, poking at the light and springy throttle to lunge through traffic, and slowing just as forcefully because of the over-servoed brakes. However, this version, when you decide not to change up into a higher gear, goes on to a strong top end, without any obvious 'switching' going on where a computer was changing something for more power. Its power delivery is almost petrol-like.
This, whilst its greatest triumph, is also its Achilles heel. Even though it drives like a petrol car, that petrol car is only an Austin Metro. It's still laggy, disappointing to rev, and indistinguishable audibly from the new Transit van.
Diesels seem to be at their best when you expect little. I've always like them and enjoyed following their rapid development, but have always accepted they are usually not as good as petrols. They can then be surprisingly good to drive - one recently even made me enjoy driving a Volvo, and that same 5-cylinder unit is also excellent in the family Audi A6.
However, stepping into a diesel expecting a lot appears only to disappoint. Technology is moving on however, and, one day, all diesels will be as good as a bad petrol.
My brother, who has a 90bhp 1.9 TDi Mark 3, begged to differ, declaring it awesomely quick and asking if he could have it...
Russ
'86 190E, '62 Elan.
I can more or less agree with that fast review. My mate rauns a chipped Tdi 130. The surge forward in the sweet spot of the rev range is very interesting but outside that things are much more flat than I'm used to.
I was prepared for the soft handling and super light steering but that dead spot where you don't know what the wheels are doing is just scary.
If I grow up and become sensible in my choice of motoring a VAG TDi will be on my shopping list but I sense that the other manufacturers are catching up in the same class.
I was prepared for the soft handling and super light steering but that dead spot where you don't know what the wheels are doing is just scary.
If I grow up and become sensible in my choice of motoring a VAG TDi will be on my shopping list but I sense that the other manufacturers are catching up in the same class.
I own two cars from the Audi/VW range, namely the quattro turbo (yes, big arches) and a GTi TDi 150. Completely different cars, i know, the best bit though is the distance between petrol stops. And that is where the 150 wins over a lot of petrol cars. As you said it drives like a petrol but drinks like a diesel
edc said:
If you were so underwhelmed by mk4 Golfs, what on earth possessed you to own 4 of the things!?
They were too cheap to pass up on!
I only had each for a few months though. At everything other than driving they're great though. Worst thing about them I can think of is the stereos only appear to output bass! The on board computer on this car read 52mpg average on '2' and 48mpg on '1'. Pretty awesome!
Russ
Must admit, I was of the same opinion, previously my wife had a mk4 petrol turbo, and my brother owns a bora 150pd.
The petrol turbo was a real disappointment, rattles, squeaks, and really badly put together. It caused us no end of problems and nearly put me off VW's for life, the dealers were a waste of time too.
Brothers bora didn't ignite anything in me at all, but was nippy enough, he likes it though, which is good as he does a lot of miles in it.
I have just bought another Golf 1.8t and so far am impressed with just about everything, a completely different car to our first attempt. Maybe I previously had a Friday car.
Still, I also have a Peugeot 405 turbo diesel so that shows I have no taste. It goes well though.....
The petrol turbo was a real disappointment, rattles, squeaks, and really badly put together. It caused us no end of problems and nearly put me off VW's for life, the dealers were a waste of time too.
Brothers bora didn't ignite anything in me at all, but was nippy enough, he likes it though, which is good as he does a lot of miles in it.
I have just bought another Golf 1.8t and so far am impressed with just about everything, a completely different car to our first attempt. Maybe I previously had a Friday car.
Still, I also have a Peugeot 405 turbo diesel so that shows I have no taste. It goes well though.....
So if the diesel drives like a petrol but goes twice as far on every tankful and depreciates less why would you ever buy petrol again?
I wanted a GT TDi for the wife and she went for a 147 2.0 litre petrol instead. I've got an E320 CDi - 195BHP and 365lbs/ft torque.
Round town they are similar - about 25-30 mpg, the Merc is effortless and the Alfa a bit of fun with the revvy engine.
On any other journey the diesel wins hand down. From 80mph upwards its so much quicker than the Alfa its embarassing. The Alfa can't keep up with 1.9TDi Passat estates at motorway speeds.
And the Merc, even though its a 1800KG monster, averages 45mpg at 80mph. The Alfa manages 10 less than that.
If you press on a bit it gets worse - the Merc will go as low as 36, the Alfa gets as low as 18 MPG. In fact it is rather frustrating that the Alfa gets a wonderful 40mpg at a constant 40mph. Who ever drives anywhere at a constant 40mph?
For an everyday car I'll probably never buy petrol again.
I wanted a GT TDi for the wife and she went for a 147 2.0 litre petrol instead. I've got an E320 CDi - 195BHP and 365lbs/ft torque.
Round town they are similar - about 25-30 mpg, the Merc is effortless and the Alfa a bit of fun with the revvy engine.
On any other journey the diesel wins hand down. From 80mph upwards its so much quicker than the Alfa its embarassing. The Alfa can't keep up with 1.9TDi Passat estates at motorway speeds.
And the Merc, even though its a 1800KG monster, averages 45mpg at 80mph. The Alfa manages 10 less than that.
If you press on a bit it gets worse - the Merc will go as low as 36, the Alfa gets as low as 18 MPG. In fact it is rather frustrating that the Alfa gets a wonderful 40mpg at a constant 40mph. Who ever drives anywhere at a constant 40mph?
For an everyday car I'll probably never buy petrol again.
driving a mk4 tdi se (er, 100?110hp? Dunno...)
rattles along at 85 mph, 2650 rpm, 52 mpg, for 800 miles a week, cruise control and air con and perfectly comfortable, 600 miles on each tank (£45).
I spend about 98% of my time dosing quietly on the rumble strips, and about 2% turning the wheel. So razor sharp handling and a sherry bomb exhaust aren't quite where I'm at, although the odd 115mph leg stretch is nice.
Couldn't bear to have a (everyday) car that does less than 45mpg now, just seems like such a waste of money.
Am moving on to a Mk4 GTi PD 150 chipped to 180 hp.
Would really appreciate any comments anyone has to say about this, as I pick it up in 4 weeks...
rattles along at 85 mph, 2650 rpm, 52 mpg, for 800 miles a week, cruise control and air con and perfectly comfortable, 600 miles on each tank (£45).
I spend about 98% of my time dosing quietly on the rumble strips, and about 2% turning the wheel. So razor sharp handling and a sherry bomb exhaust aren't quite where I'm at, although the odd 115mph leg stretch is nice.
Couldn't bear to have a (everyday) car that does less than 45mpg now, just seems like such a waste of money.
Am moving on to a Mk4 GTi PD 150 chipped to 180 hp.
Would really appreciate any comments anyone has to say about this, as I pick it up in 4 weeks...
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