XJR 4.0 Pros and cons..........
Discussion
I'm thinking about buying a 1998 XJR (4.0 straight six). Any advice about how good/bad these cars are ?? What to watch out for ?? What normally goes wrong ?? Can't quite work out when they changed from a 6 cylinder to a V8, which is the best ?? Any advice greatfully received as never owned a Jag before (even if it is ''Don't buy one, it'll cost a fortune to run !!'')
Regards,
Simon.
Regards,
Simon.
Someboby call?
Right, where to start...
The changeover between straight 6s and V8s was in '97, so the car you're looking at is indeed a V8. Prices should be similar between a late '6' and an early '8'
Outwardly there is little to distinguish them save for square/oval indicators, 17"/18" wheels and badging. Inside they have totally different interiors. The 6 has an updated XJ40 interior which although dated has a more upmarket feel - apart from the ghastly black plastic fascia for the dials - as opposed to wood in other models. The 8 has a more modern curvy interior but it doesn't feel so solid - personal preference really.
To drive the cars is really interesting. The 6s are fully developed and have their roots in the old boxy XJ40 - consequently (IMHO) the ride is more comfortable than the 8, but the handling accordingly suffers slightly (We're not talking big differences here). Power output is similar (330ish bhp v 370bhp) and both engines are silky smooth. The big difference however is in the gearbox. The 6 has a 10 year old 4-speed whearas the early V8s had a Mercedes 5-speed (all are autos). The 5-speed 'box shifts much quicker and smoother and exploits the engine power to much better effect. To drive, the 8 is noticeably a better performance car.
Driving is only half the question though - ownership can be either very simple or very hard. As already mentioned, the 6s are thoroughly developed over many years and consequently are bomb-proof. Don't expect anything better than normal Jaguar running costs though (22mpg, £500-£1000pa servicing, gp17 insurance), but a properly maintained car won't break. The 8 is a different kettel of fish. The V8 engine was a brand new design in '97 and accordingly suffered from three main inherent design failings...
1) Nikasil Cylinder Linings - As BMW found, cheap low sulphur fuels and a large portion of bad luck can see these wear badly and end in complete engine replacement. To test whether a car is suffering from this a dealer can carry out a 'blow-by' test which measures how much air is getting passed the cylinder. A score of 40 or over is failure. A typical reading is about 15. This problem was cured on 2000 onwards cars.
2) Timing Chain Tensioners - cheap design of these simple componenents can cause them to break up, throwing the timing out. Subsequent mashing of cylinders, valves etc. requires replacement engine. Post 2000 models had a better tensioner design and don't suffer from this problem.
3) Water pump impellor - Again, cheap plastic design causes the internals of the water pump to break up. The subsequent overheating increases the liklehood of 1 and 2 occurring. Again, post 2000 cars were cured.
The safest way to buy a pre 2000 '8' is to find one with a replacement engine - quite a few around. Check the history to make sure it is correctly documented and that it is a post 2000 engine in there now. If you're looking at a car without a replacement engine then check the history for the water pump replacement (likely to have been done) and also to see if the timing chain tensioners have been replaced - it's not common to find a car with this, but some owners do this to prevent later failure (a wise move). Regarding the Nikasil linings, I took the view that if they were going to fail, then they would have done by now - I didn't get the chance to find out as the tensioners went first
.
Personally, I'd reccommend the V8 as it is a superior drive. But don't rely on a warranty to replace a failed engine - find a car which has already had it done.
Whichever you choose to go for - make sure that you do buy one. They really are in a league of their own.
Hope that helps
PS: Read this excellent buying guide by Broadbean747 - www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=195961&f=85&h=0
>> Edited by groomi on Sunday 8th January 22:25
>> Edited by groomi on Sunday 8th January 22:26
Right, where to start...
The changeover between straight 6s and V8s was in '97, so the car you're looking at is indeed a V8. Prices should be similar between a late '6' and an early '8'
Outwardly there is little to distinguish them save for square/oval indicators, 17"/18" wheels and badging. Inside they have totally different interiors. The 6 has an updated XJ40 interior which although dated has a more upmarket feel - apart from the ghastly black plastic fascia for the dials - as opposed to wood in other models. The 8 has a more modern curvy interior but it doesn't feel so solid - personal preference really.
To drive the cars is really interesting. The 6s are fully developed and have their roots in the old boxy XJ40 - consequently (IMHO) the ride is more comfortable than the 8, but the handling accordingly suffers slightly (We're not talking big differences here). Power output is similar (330ish bhp v 370bhp) and both engines are silky smooth. The big difference however is in the gearbox. The 6 has a 10 year old 4-speed whearas the early V8s had a Mercedes 5-speed (all are autos). The 5-speed 'box shifts much quicker and smoother and exploits the engine power to much better effect. To drive, the 8 is noticeably a better performance car.
Driving is only half the question though - ownership can be either very simple or very hard. As already mentioned, the 6s are thoroughly developed over many years and consequently are bomb-proof. Don't expect anything better than normal Jaguar running costs though (22mpg, £500-£1000pa servicing, gp17 insurance), but a properly maintained car won't break. The 8 is a different kettel of fish. The V8 engine was a brand new design in '97 and accordingly suffered from three main inherent design failings...
1) Nikasil Cylinder Linings - As BMW found, cheap low sulphur fuels and a large portion of bad luck can see these wear badly and end in complete engine replacement. To test whether a car is suffering from this a dealer can carry out a 'blow-by' test which measures how much air is getting passed the cylinder. A score of 40 or over is failure. A typical reading is about 15. This problem was cured on 2000 onwards cars.
2) Timing Chain Tensioners - cheap design of these simple componenents can cause them to break up, throwing the timing out. Subsequent mashing of cylinders, valves etc. requires replacement engine. Post 2000 models had a better tensioner design and don't suffer from this problem.
3) Water pump impellor - Again, cheap plastic design causes the internals of the water pump to break up. The subsequent overheating increases the liklehood of 1 and 2 occurring. Again, post 2000 cars were cured.
The safest way to buy a pre 2000 '8' is to find one with a replacement engine - quite a few around. Check the history to make sure it is correctly documented and that it is a post 2000 engine in there now. If you're looking at a car without a replacement engine then check the history for the water pump replacement (likely to have been done) and also to see if the timing chain tensioners have been replaced - it's not common to find a car with this, but some owners do this to prevent later failure (a wise move). Regarding the Nikasil linings, I took the view that if they were going to fail, then they would have done by now - I didn't get the chance to find out as the tensioners went first
. Personally, I'd reccommend the V8 as it is a superior drive. But don't rely on a warranty to replace a failed engine - find a car which has already had it done.
Whichever you choose to go for - make sure that you do buy one. They really are in a league of their own.
Hope that helps
PS: Read this excellent buying guide by Broadbean747 - www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=195961&f=85&h=0
>> Edited by groomi on Sunday 8th January 22:25
>> Edited by groomi on Sunday 8th January 22:26
XJR420 said:
As Groomi says, they are in a league of their own, theres nothing else that quite matches the speed and comfort and theyre the ultimate 'wolf in sheep's clothing'. You cant beat the look on a Ferrari or Porche drivers face when he realises you are still there.........
Especially when they notice through their sweat-pored eyes the Jag driver calmly puffing away on his cigar and the tell-tale finger gently tapping the steering wheel in tune with melodic tones of Jazz FM.... niiish.
Had a look at the car today, just can't believe that the bloke didn't clean it, unreal.
Looks pretty tidy on the outside, the winter dirt might be hiding the odd scratched paintwork but no dents to the panels. Interiors very good and drivers seat only slightly worn,probably a good clean will tidy it up. Engine sounded quiet upon start up, the odd squeak but nothing noisey. 70 K miles on a 98/S plate. Just serviced in Dec where it had new shocks on the front (also wheel bearing last year). Think its been pretty well looked after although a valet will tell what the exterior is really like. It has had a service by an (Independant) Jaguar garage in Dec then they would have informed of any problems with tensioners / water pumps you would have thought??
Paint on top of the supercharger had all come off. Is this common /can it be painted again ??
Quite surprised that there is less room in the front(height wise) than my Omega. I'm only an inch from the roof.
I can see why these are regarded as stonking cars though, fanatstic ride, goes like stink , quiet, looks the bizz, packed with goodies (most of which seemed to work).
Still a 98 model with Nikasil though............
Looks pretty tidy on the outside, the winter dirt might be hiding the odd scratched paintwork but no dents to the panels. Interiors very good and drivers seat only slightly worn,probably a good clean will tidy it up. Engine sounded quiet upon start up, the odd squeak but nothing noisey. 70 K miles on a 98/S plate. Just serviced in Dec where it had new shocks on the front (also wheel bearing last year). Think its been pretty well looked after although a valet will tell what the exterior is really like. It has had a service by an (Independant) Jaguar garage in Dec then they would have informed of any problems with tensioners / water pumps you would have thought??
Paint on top of the supercharger had all come off. Is this common /can it be painted again ??
Quite surprised that there is less room in the front(height wise) than my Omega. I'm only an inch from the roof.
I can see why these are regarded as stonking cars though, fanatstic ride, goes like stink , quiet, looks the bizz, packed with goodies (most of which seemed to work).
Still a 98 model with Nikasil though............
The timing chain tensioners are supposedly a 'lifetime' part and as such are not part of any standard servicing inspections, so the specialist would have had no reason to check them unless the owner requested them to. The water pump isn't noticeable until it actually breaks up - this isn't a major issue though as you'll get a low coolant level warning so you can stop and call the AA for a tow.
Did you have a good nose through the service history for anything relating to tensioners, water pump etc?
Mileage sounds normal, recent service sounds good - you don't change the shocks if you don't care about the car. On the face of it, it sounds like an OK car.
The big question is 'do you feel lucky?'
Did you have a good nose through the service history for anything relating to tensioners, water pump etc?
Mileage sounds normal, recent service sounds good - you don't change the shocks if you don't care about the car. On the face of it, it sounds like an OK car.
The big question is 'do you feel lucky?'
Good question !!
I could afford the car, the extra insurance, the extra petrol,the increased maintenance costs but, If it went bang then I'd be
ed !! Saying that if my V6 Omega went bang I'd be ed too I suppose !!
Guy got back to me today, price has gone down to £8,200.
I've seen the service book (missing one stamp from when the last person traded it into the garage where this chap bought it from), upon sale it was fully serviced and has had two services in the last two years. Haven't though got any literature with it from the previous owner (other than stamps in the service book).
I suppose if I were to seriously consider buying it I would have to have the 'blow-by' test done on it (although you would have thought that any problems with the engine would have surfaced by now in the way of cylinder wear). Comes with a 12 month transferable warranty for what its worth (he managed to get the wheel bearing replaced under this, mind you I think it did blow up rather than 'wear-out').
Bloody hell.............I hate making decisions.
I could afford the car, the extra insurance, the extra petrol,the increased maintenance costs but, If it went bang then I'd be
ed !! Saying that if my V6 Omega went bang I'd be ed too I suppose !! Guy got back to me today, price has gone down to £8,200.
I've seen the service book (missing one stamp from when the last person traded it into the garage where this chap bought it from), upon sale it was fully serviced and has had two services in the last two years. Haven't though got any literature with it from the previous owner (other than stamps in the service book).
I suppose if I were to seriously consider buying it I would have to have the 'blow-by' test done on it (although you would have thought that any problems with the engine would have surfaced by now in the way of cylinder wear). Comes with a 12 month transferable warranty for what its worth (he managed to get the wheel bearing replaced under this, mind you I think it did blow up rather than 'wear-out').
Bloody hell.............I hate making decisions.
So the buyer has someone interested in the car, you. and he drops the price. MAYDAY MAYDAY!! Get a blow by check done. Or you won't sleep at night. Then drive a hard bargin with the seller, you may get another £1k off, which would pay for the tensioners to be replaced by you as prevention.
G
G
what about this one? Daimler Super V8 97 NEW ENGINE
best of both worlds
www.wyn-thomas.co.uk/frame6.htm
best of both worlds
www.wyn-thomas.co.uk/frame6.htm
Yeah looks nice, I take it its an XJR with Daimler luxeries ?? New engine in 2001 might not have done too many miles since then.
Purely personal preference but I wanted to avoid the light colour metallics with white/ivory leather. Wanted more then 'mean stealth' look !!
Anybody know what the body/corrosions like on these ?? When they start to rust where do they normally go first ??
Purely personal preference but I wanted to avoid the light colour metallics with white/ivory leather. Wanted more then 'mean stealth' look !!
Anybody know what the body/corrosions like on these ?? When they start to rust where do they normally go first ??
Corrosion isn't a problem on these cars unless it's had a prang, so nothing really to worry about there.
The price sounds quite good on the XJR and as Triple7 says, you coul dalways get the tensioners replaced as a preventative measure. As you suggested, if the Nikasil problems haven't surfaced by now you would hope that they won't - mind you, I'd still get a blow-by test done just to make sure.
Could your budget stretch to a post 2000 XJR for extra peace of mind?
The price sounds quite good on the XJR and as Triple7 says, you coul dalways get the tensioners replaced as a preventative measure. As you suggested, if the Nikasil problems haven't surfaced by now you would hope that they won't - mind you, I'd still get a blow-by test done just to make sure.
Could your budget stretch to a post 2000 XJR for extra peace of mind?
Hi there 
I sold my 98 XJR on PH last march for £8K. It had 120K, but had new timing chain tensioners. Even at 100K it still passed the 'blow-by' test.
Just to give you some comparison, this is what it looked like. ps., I'm not a fanatic engine cleaner, it was only opened to fill the washer fluid.
I sold my 98 XJR on PH last march for £8K. It had 120K, but had new timing chain tensioners. Even at 100K it still passed the 'blow-by' test.
Just to give you some comparison, this is what it looked like. ps., I'm not a fanatic engine cleaner, it was only opened to fill the washer fluid.
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