XF brake disc judder - anyone cracked this yet
Discussion
I've got 2012 XF 3.0D premium. Its got a 120k on it, and has had both the timing belt and inlet manifolds done. I have extended service intervals to 18 months, as I only use it for longer motorway journeys now, all the local stuff I do in an EV. I am really happy with the XF, but I would love any advice on best approach for the brake discs.
I've mainly put Brembo discs and pads on, and they last about a year before I start to get judder under braking again. The car is mainly motorway miles, so does suffer from the heavy braking at exits, and then sitting with the brakes on waiting for lights or traffic to allow to continue journey. I tried Bosch discs on advice, but no real difference.
Is there a brand of discs that are less likely to warp? Are drilled, grooved or dimpled discs any better for the problem of heavy motorway braking? Are brake disks disposable on the XF, and are branded discs worth it, or do you get just as long out of OEM discs before they go? Do you only change the front discs to address judder?
I've mainly put Brembo discs and pads on, and they last about a year before I start to get judder under braking again. The car is mainly motorway miles, so does suffer from the heavy braking at exits, and then sitting with the brakes on waiting for lights or traffic to allow to continue journey. I tried Bosch discs on advice, but no real difference.
Is there a brand of discs that are less likely to warp? Are drilled, grooved or dimpled discs any better for the problem of heavy motorway braking? Are brake disks disposable on the XF, and are branded discs worth it, or do you get just as long out of OEM discs before they go? Do you only change the front discs to address judder?
It's the pads leaving deposits on the discs rather than the discs becoming warped. Perhaps try different pads.
I've successfully cured this problem once by repeating the pad bedding procedure (series of progressively harder stops, followed by letting them cool). This was following a track day at Bedford.
I've successfully cured this problem once by repeating the pad bedding procedure (series of progressively harder stops, followed by letting them cool). This was following a track day at Bedford.
https://www.ebcbrakeshop.co.uk/info-brake-parts?ma...
I have never owned a Jaguar whereby come replacement time I havent found myself fitting these . In my experience quality and performance is second to none .
I have never owned a Jaguar whereby come replacement time I havent found myself fitting these . In my experience quality and performance is second to none .
Zarco said:
It's the pads leaving deposits on the discs rather than the discs becoming warped. Perhaps try different pads.
I've successfully cured this problem once by repeating the pad bedding procedure (series of progressively harder stops, followed by letting them cool). This was following a track day at Bedford.
Thank you, a bit of googling and that makes absolute sense. To think how many sets of discs I've thrown away I've successfully cured this problem once by repeating the pad bedding procedure (series of progressively harder stops, followed by letting them cool). This was following a track day at Bedford.
I will give the bedding in approach a go. Would I be on the right lines with, cold brakes, speeding up to 60, firm gradual braking to 10, then repeat 7 or 8 times?
Other ideas I've seen on transfer are: highly abrasive pads to resurface the discs; sanding the discs; putting water or brake dust removal spray on the discs, and letting them go rusty.
If the bedding in doesn't work, do any of these hold a suggested next stage?
It might be pad marerial on the disc, however, it might well be due to your comments about braking hard and then sitting at lights etc with the brakes 'on'. If by that you mean holding the car on the footbrake, then this practice can cause a disc to warp because you have uneven cooling of the disc, eventually causing it to warp. The best way to avoid that is not to hold a car with hot discs on the footbrake: cross-drilled discs etc might help the cooling overall, though the holes are better at clearing pad dust, but they can't alter the physics of sections of a disc cooling at different rates.
This issue of warped discs seems to be more common nowadays and might well be linked to the use of 'hold' brakes rather than 'handbrakes'.
This issue of warped discs seems to be more common nowadays and might well be linked to the use of 'hold' brakes rather than 'handbrakes'.
TarquinMX5 said:
It might be pad marerial on the disc, however, it might well be due to your comments about braking hard and then sitting at lights etc with the brakes 'on'. If by that you mean holding the car on the footbrake, then this practice can cause a disc to warp because you have uneven cooling of the disc, eventually causing it to warp. The best way to avoid that is not to hold a car with hot discs on the footbrake: cross-drilled discs etc might help the cooling overall, though the holes are better at clearing pad dust, but they can't alter the physics of sections of a disc cooling at different rates.
This issue of warped discs seems to be more common nowadays and might well be linked to the use of 'hold' brakes rather than 'handbrakes'.
Absolutely this . I also find it incredible when the OP talks in terms of having lost count of the amount of discs he has thrown away , on a 3.0D XF ??This issue of warped discs seems to be more common nowadays and might well be linked to the use of 'hold' brakes rather than 'handbrakes'.
Come replacement time I urge you to have a look at EBC , commonly used and recommended by Jaguar drivers on many Forums and you can get them directly from the factory shop in Northampton . Other Products are available of course .
I had to replace the discs on my 2005 XJ6 (uses broadly the same suspension/brake components as the XF) after 17k miles/3 years due to brake judder.
For me the cause (I think) was braking from high-ish speeds to standstill and sitting on the brakes - a habit that I'd got in to. I now get off the brakes as soon as I can once I've reached a standstill.
I replaced the brake discs with a set of Juratek ones off ebay (£90 or thereabouts). Completely fine and no issues with them. Brake judder gone. Not sure how long they'll last, but signs are good so far...
For me the cause (I think) was braking from high-ish speeds to standstill and sitting on the brakes - a habit that I'd got in to. I now get off the brakes as soon as I can once I've reached a standstill.
I replaced the brake discs with a set of Juratek ones off ebay (£90 or thereabouts). Completely fine and no issues with them. Brake judder gone. Not sure how long they'll last, but signs are good so far...
If you ever have any track driving tuition they will tell you not to sit on the brake pedal after spirited driving, and ideally keep the car moving slowly so the brake discs don’t experience a ‘hot spot” of the pads in close proximity in one location as the car sits still.
I would suspect the issue here is more likely to be influenced by either the OP’s driving style or a binding issue with the callipers than anything you can fix by changing brake pad or disc supplier. In your position I would be looking closely at the brake callipers to check for any signs of binding of either pistons or sliding pins due to corrosion, as this is accentuated when putting new discs and pads in at the same time, for which the pistons have to be fully retracted. Other things to look out for are an unusually hot wheel after a normal drive that may indicate a binding issue.
Other than that, try not to sit on the brake pedal at the traffic lights. It looks like the XF uses the rear calliper for the handbrake (unlike a BMW type system with internal drum brake) but that would at least spare the front brakes if there is a heat issue after a rapid stop.
I would suspect the issue here is more likely to be influenced by either the OP’s driving style or a binding issue with the callipers than anything you can fix by changing brake pad or disc supplier. In your position I would be looking closely at the brake callipers to check for any signs of binding of either pistons or sliding pins due to corrosion, as this is accentuated when putting new discs and pads in at the same time, for which the pistons have to be fully retracted. Other things to look out for are an unusually hot wheel after a normal drive that may indicate a binding issue.
Other than that, try not to sit on the brake pedal at the traffic lights. It looks like the XF uses the rear calliper for the handbrake (unlike a BMW type system with internal drum brake) but that would at least spare the front brakes if there is a heat issue after a rapid stop.
V88Dicky said:
slimmct said:
and then sitting with the brakes on waiting for lights or traffic to allow to continue journey
Try not doing this.Think about what you’re doing. You’ve just hauled a two ton car down from 70mph then you’re clamping the pads to a red hot disc…..
If you get some drilled + slotted discs they'll be more aggressive at clearing up pad material (slots) and cool more quickly. The only downsides are higher pad wear and potentially shorter disc life as you have more routes for corrosion.
chrisch77 said:
If you ever have any track driving tuition they will tell you not to sit on the brake pedal after spirited driving, and ideally keep the car moving slowly so the brake discs don’t experience a ‘hot spot” of the pads in close proximity in one location as the car sits still.
I don't think what I'd quite realised was how even comparative light braking can potentially cause the issue. I rarely brake hard to a standstill. Good point re. brakes experiencing a 'hot spot'. I'll try and leave a bit more creep space in future. Will be interesting to see if I can increase the life of the current discs over the previous ones.
I spoke to a brake disc skimming guy a few years ago who does work for dealers of Porsche, Aston Martin etc and he told me that on his own car if he hadn’t used for a while he would Always do this.
Pick a safe area and drive at around 30mph and then stamp on the brakes fairly hard a couple of times. This cleared all of the crap on the discs which was the main cause of judder. Of course skimming the discs or changing them would always improve the judder but he never did it to his own car.
Pick a safe area and drive at around 30mph and then stamp on the brakes fairly hard a couple of times. This cleared all of the crap on the discs which was the main cause of judder. Of course skimming the discs or changing them would always improve the judder but he never did it to his own car.
I would agree with the comments that it is totally my driving style.
For all of the XFs good points, a really fast auto box is not one of them. I've tried the process of flipping the parking brake, spinning to neutral, off the brakes. Just in time to flip back to drive, release the park brake, as the auto park brake release is slow, spinning to drive, putting your foot down, then waiting for the engine and the box to work out its revs and gear if you put your foot down too much. It's like trying to play bop-it at every junction, hence me putting up with new brakes so often.
I like the approach of leaving space to avoid coming to a total stop and dragging the brakes to a slow crawl though, I could work with that.
For all of the XFs good points, a really fast auto box is not one of them. I've tried the process of flipping the parking brake, spinning to neutral, off the brakes. Just in time to flip back to drive, release the park brake, as the auto park brake release is slow, spinning to drive, putting your foot down, then waiting for the engine and the box to work out its revs and gear if you put your foot down too much. It's like trying to play bop-it at every junction, hence me putting up with new brakes so often.
I like the approach of leaving space to avoid coming to a total stop and dragging the brakes to a slow crawl though, I could work with that.
slimmct said:
I like the approach of leaving space to avoid coming to a total stop and dragging the brakes to a slow crawl though, I could work with that.
I changed out genuine Jaguar discs and pads after running them for about 6,000 miles because they'd developed judder. The surfaces looked fine from the front but when I got them off the car the rear faces were pitted with intermittent patches of corrosion and there were very obvious pad-shaped shadows on them, presumably from prolonged depression of the pad to disc resulting in friction material transfer.I replaced the discs with (Italian made) LPR discs and Pagid brake pads and I've had about 15,000 miles of judder free braking since.
I have never rated Jaguar's factory fitted brake discs and pads having had similar bad experiences with an X-Type. I remember they were marked as having been made in Mexico (a throwback to Jag's Ford days).
Just to be clear, is this judder felt on light application of the brakes from circa 50mph?
My wheel slightly shakes but if I press hard on the brakes it is stable.
I always assumed warped discs but they are pretty new so didn't want to swap yet. I did the rears last year as they were pretty far gone and that was an easy job, so looking forward to doing the fronts.
My wheel slightly shakes but if I press hard on the brakes it is stable.
I always assumed warped discs but they are pretty new so didn't want to swap yet. I did the rears last year as they were pretty far gone and that was an easy job, so looking forward to doing the fronts.
remedy said:
Just to be clear, is this judder felt on light application of the brakes from circa 50mph?
My wheel slightly shakes but if I press hard on the brakes it is stable.
I always assumed warped discs but they are pretty new so didn't want to swap yet. I did the rears last year as they were pretty far gone and that was an easy job, so looking forward to doing the fronts.
That could be some of the suspension bushes on the front, I forget which. But I (again) had something similar. Replacing the bushes cured that wobble... My wheel slightly shakes but if I press hard on the brakes it is stable.
I always assumed warped discs but they are pretty new so didn't want to swap yet. I did the rears last year as they were pretty far gone and that was an easy job, so looking forward to doing the fronts.
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