Low mileage XK anyone?
Discussion
Its the one to have I think if we are talking future desirability . Again I ask the question what does a typical Jaguar Enthusiast do with such a car ? At the money being asked , to preserve any significant future value , the mileage will have to be kept low . It would break my heart to not drive any Jaguar so I simply wouldn't be prepared to trailer her from show to show .
reddiesel said:
Its the one to have I think if we are talking future desirability . Again I ask the question what does a typical Jaguar Enthusiast do with such a car ? At the money being asked , to preserve any significant future value , the mileage will have to be kept low . It would break my heart to not drive any Jaguar so I simply wouldn't be prepared to trailer her from show to show .
Spot on. Like all such, it isn't functionally a car; it's a fetish object or an investment vehicle(!)reddiesel said:
Again I ask the question what does a typical Jaguar Enthusiast do with such a car ? At the money being asked , to preserve any significant future value , the mileage will have to be kept low . It would break my heart to not drive any Jaguar so I simply wouldn't be prepared to trailer her from show to show .
I suppose you'd have to regard it like a painting. Buy it, enjoy looking at it, then one day if you tire of it, let somebody else take it over, hopefully for more £.Paintings take up much less space and are easier to look after though!
Simpo Two said:
I suppose you'd have to regard it like a painting. Buy it, enjoy looking at it, then one day if you tire of it, let somebody else take it over, hopefully for more £.
Paintings take up much less space and are easier to look after though!
Can I ask you and indeed anyone else interested is it any more desirable than an Aston DB9 with say 45,000 miles up ? Paintings take up much less space and are easier to look after though!
reddiesel said:
Can I ask you and indeed anyone else interested is it any more desirable than an Aston DB9 with say 45,000 miles up ?
Desirability is in the eyes of the beholder. The Jag is unique, but it doesn't say 'Aston' on the front. The Jag is rarer, but I think more people would go for the DB9.I'm intrigued to know the back story , "investment" purchase , previously subject to some legal dispute , ex Works Heritage type situation , elderly owner who passed before enjoying the car ?? .
Interesting stuff, how do these timewarp car's become such ?
I have a 2012 build F30 BMW 335d , that i bought from a main dealer with less than 200 miles on the clock in April 2018.
It had been a pre production car , used for dealer Tech training purposes , then lived at the BMW museum AFAIK ,before entering the dealer network. - it;s 21k now and still mint but still a bit weird (strange Luxury spec , with very rare adaptive cruise system but no Sat Nav , finished in non saleable light gold
)
These anomaly car's are out there , at 35k that Jaguar would be right up my street
.
Interesting stuff, how do these timewarp car's become such ?
I have a 2012 build F30 BMW 335d , that i bought from a main dealer with less than 200 miles on the clock in April 2018.
It had been a pre production car , used for dealer Tech training purposes , then lived at the BMW museum AFAIK ,before entering the dealer network. - it;s 21k now and still mint but still a bit weird (strange Luxury spec , with very rare adaptive cruise system but no Sat Nav , finished in non saleable light gold
)These anomaly car's are out there , at 35k that Jaguar would be right up my street
.Edited by RetroWheels on Saturday 16th April 22:30
This car appears to have been entered for auction: https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1442945
Will be interesting to see the result.
According to the listing the original owner suffered an injury shortly after purchase but hoped to be able to drive it eventually, hence holding onto the car.
Will be interesting to see the result.
According to the listing the original owner suffered an injury shortly after purchase but hoped to be able to drive it eventually, hence holding onto the car.
Well its certainly a wonderful looking thing and I think history may well look back at these Models made under Ford Ownership and label them a " Golden Era " . Some may find that laughable but when you consider the range of SUV vehicles a Jaguar buyer is confronted with nowadays you can perhaps understand how I say that . Taking the Investment element away from the purchase of this XKR , what does £40k buy nowadays that looks any better ? Its all the car many of us would ever need . Buy it , use it and enjoy it and you wont regret it .
reddiesel said:
Well its certainly a wonderful looking thing and I think history may well look back at these Models made under Ford Ownership and label them a " Golden Era " .
I’m not so sure about that. There are three phases to “the Ford era” the first one is fixing all the issues they found when they bought the company so we get the revised XJS and the X300 and 308. The second is their attempt at building Jaguars which gives us the “retro” era of the X type, S type, XK8 and X350. The third one is the modernisation era and this is the one that this car started. The XK is in the group with the XF and X351 that were all somewhere between the design phase and on sale when Tata bought in. I’m not sure it’s possible to say that the “Ford era” was one era. To me the first was a given, the second was a disaster and the the third was getting it right. There were SUVs on the drawing board in the third era that didn’t get a red light in time.craigjm said:
reddiesel said:
Well its certainly a wonderful looking thing and I think history may well look back at these Models made under Ford Ownership and label them a " Golden Era " .
I’m not so sure about that. There are three phases to “the Ford era” the first one is fixing all the issues they found when they bought the company so we get the revised XJS and the X300 and 308. The second is their attempt at building Jaguars which gives us the “retro” era of the X type, S type, XK8 and X350. The third one is the modernisation era and this is the one that this car started. The XK is in the group with the XF and X351 that were all somewhere between the design phase and on sale when Tata bought in. I’m not sure it’s possible to say that the “Ford era” was one era. To me the first was a given, the second was a disaster and the the third was getting it right. There were SUVs on the drawing board in the third era that didn’t get a red light in time.craigjm said:
I’m not so sure about that. There are three phases to “the Ford era” the first one is fixing all the issues they found when they bought the company so we get the revised XJS and the X300 and 308. The second is their attempt at building Jaguars which gives us the “retro” era of the X type, S type, XK8 and X350. The third one is the modernisation era and this is the one that this car started. The XK is in the group with the XF and X351 that were all somewhere between the design phase and on sale when Tata bought in. I’m not sure it’s possible to say that the “Ford era” was one era. To me the first was a given, the second was a disaster and the the third was getting it right. There were SUVs on the drawing board in the third era that didn’t get a red light in time.
There has been a lot of cliched claptrap over the years Craig especially about this " retro " narrative . Ford for me firstly introduced a level of quality and reliability never before seen by owners of Jaguar Cars . I accept the quibbles about the occasional Ford " parts bin raid " but this was also seen on Aston Martins of the same period . The move to Aluminium Construction was also a great advancement especially in terms of durability and longevity of Bodywork and increased Fuel Economy . I suppose you could add in Supercharging and the introduction of the R Models . Did Ford get it wrong with the " retro " styling?The introduction of the S Type for me was always a strange direction for Jaguar to go in , that said it was a fine car and sold better than expected . In their defence they weren't the only manufacturer to mine their back catalogue , even Volkswagen were doing likewise . The question of the X Type is a more interesting one . Initially launched with a poor Model range I dont believe it was ever going to challenge the BMW 3 series in terms of sales and to date the XE has also failed in this regard . Again both fine cars with avid followings . I think you possibly have your dates wrong regarding the XK and its relationship to Tata . It was a Ford effort as were the XF and the X351 and both had long left the design stage when ford sold the Company . Tata simply inherited the Model line up . I dont want to get into the SUV not being a proper Jaguar argument but as far as I can see this is sadly all that Jaguar manufacture now . Personally I am disappointed that once again as in the X150 the F Type is now being adorned with copious amounts of silly cheap plastic bling in order to keep it relevant , I dont know if you have seen the front bumper vents and equally ridiculous plastic bonnet ones , its in danger morphing into a Hindustan Taxi Cab . In short I see the Ford era as simply the period Jaguar spent under their ownership and even though they were forced into selling the Company for half what they paid I think History will view them favourably . Easily Jaguars greatest era since the days of Lyons and arguably better given the near state of Bankruptcy Sir William Lyons perpetually toiled under .
It’s not a case of liking the retro phase or not that is not my point. My post is purely from a business point of view and if you look at the annual reports from 1990
Through to now you can see the trend clearly. Sales increase in what I called phased one as the cars got more reliable and were built better. The first year of the X and S type continue this but after that and through the x350 era sales suffer badly. There is a huge spike in sales when the XK listed here is launched and the XF and the x351.
We can talk all we like about what was good and what wasn’t but at the end of the day what matters are the numbers. It’s a real shame to my mind that Jaguar cars from that era are much more popular on the user market than they were new. This is the whole problem Jaguar faced through the tata era so far trying to reverse that and it’s not a problem that I would want as CEO
Through to now you can see the trend clearly. Sales increase in what I called phased one as the cars got more reliable and were built better. The first year of the X and S type continue this but after that and through the x350 era sales suffer badly. There is a huge spike in sales when the XK listed here is launched and the XF and the x351.
We can talk all we like about what was good and what wasn’t but at the end of the day what matters are the numbers. It’s a real shame to my mind that Jaguar cars from that era are much more popular on the user market than they were new. This is the whole problem Jaguar faced through the tata era so far trying to reverse that and it’s not a problem that I would want as CEO
Absolutely Reddiesel there were some great advancements under Ford like you mention and if they hadn’t bought in you have to wonder where the company would be now. If the GM bid had been successful would it have ended up like Saab and be extinct now.
Let’s face it car design must be the hardest job in the world as you’re never going to please all the people all the time. If you speak to any of the designers and senior people that We’re around in the Ford era they say they constantly we’re told to ask “what would William Lyon’s have thought” and this led to the reflective looking cars. I think they did him a disservice as he was always very visionary otherwise he would have been building mk4 type cars in the late 60s and not the XJ. Callum and the leadership ripped that up but I do wonder if they bought it back and asked it in a slightly different way what the answer would be.
Asking “what would William Lyon’s think if he was alive today?” Would potentially give a different answer. As a progressive he may have even got into electric earlier who knows
Let’s face it car design must be the hardest job in the world as you’re never going to please all the people all the time. If you speak to any of the designers and senior people that We’re around in the Ford era they say they constantly we’re told to ask “what would William Lyon’s have thought” and this led to the reflective looking cars. I think they did him a disservice as he was always very visionary otherwise he would have been building mk4 type cars in the late 60s and not the XJ. Callum and the leadership ripped that up but I do wonder if they bought it back and asked it in a slightly different way what the answer would be.
Asking “what would William Lyon’s think if he was alive today?” Would potentially give a different answer. As a progressive he may have even got into electric earlier who knows
craigjm said:
It’s not a case of liking the retro phase or not that is not my point. My post is purely from a business point of view and if you look at the annual reports from 1990
Through to now you can see the trend clearly. Sales increase in what I called phased one as the cars got more reliable and were built better. The first year of the X and S type continue this but after that and through the x350 era sales suffer badly. There is a huge spike in sales when the XK listed here is launched and the XF and the x351.
We can talk all we like about what was good and what wasn’t but at the end of the day what matters are the numbers. It’s a real shame to my mind that Jaguar cars from that era are much more popular on the user market than they were new. This is the whole problem Jaguar faced through the tata era so far trying to reverse that and it’s not a problem that I would want as CEO
I have been banging the drum for these early aluminium Jaguars for years Craig and after seeing an X350 at the Traffic Lights the other day ( the Owner actually turned up on here ) I consider it timeless and that Classic XJ shape as much a part of the British way of life as Cricket and Afternoon Tea . Unlike any car of the same era you instinctively look whilst the others Audi , BMW , Mercedes remain strangely anonymous . I totally understand and agree with your numbers argument , what I think is happening now is an attempt to change the Jaguar DNA if you like in an attempt to chase volume . Sadly many old blokes like us find little of interest in the current range and after 40 years of ownership I am sad about thatThrough to now you can see the trend clearly. Sales increase in what I called phased one as the cars got more reliable and were built better. The first year of the X and S type continue this but after that and through the x350 era sales suffer badly. There is a huge spike in sales when the XK listed here is launched and the XF and the x351.
We can talk all we like about what was good and what wasn’t but at the end of the day what matters are the numbers. It’s a real shame to my mind that Jaguar cars from that era are much more popular on the user market than they were new. This is the whole problem Jaguar faced through the tata era so far trying to reverse that and it’s not a problem that I would want as CEO
craigjm said:
Absolutely Reddiesel there were some great advancements under Ford like you mention and if they hadn’t bought in you have to wonder where the company would be now. If the GM bid had been successful would it have ended up like Saab and be extinct now.
Let’s face it car design must be the hardest job in the world as you’re never going to please all the people all the time. If you speak to any of the designers and senior people that We’re around in the Ford era they say they constantly we’re told to ask “what would William Lyon’s have thought” and this led to the reflective looking cars. I think they did him a disservice as he was always very visionary otherwise he would have been building mk4 type cars in the late 60s and not the XJ. Callum and the leadership ripped that up but I do wonder if they bought it back and asked it in a slightly different way what the answer would be.
Asking “what would William Lyon’s think if he was alive today?” Would potentially give a different answer. As a progressive he may have even got into electric earlier who knows
I genuinely believe the period of Ford Ownership will be remembered as a Golden Period by Jaguar Historians of the future and for all the advancements I have mentioned . Tata for me have done little in the way of taking the brand forward , I think their Policy thus far has been through their ownership of Land Rover to find various economies and cost savings . The cars themselves have no soul , its a Leasing marketplace now and any idea of Jaguar being the aspirational product it once was is long gone . Let’s face it car design must be the hardest job in the world as you’re never going to please all the people all the time. If you speak to any of the designers and senior people that We’re around in the Ford era they say they constantly we’re told to ask “what would William Lyon’s have thought” and this led to the reflective looking cars. I think they did him a disservice as he was always very visionary otherwise he would have been building mk4 type cars in the late 60s and not the XJ. Callum and the leadership ripped that up but I do wonder if they bought it back and asked it in a slightly different way what the answer would be.
Asking “what would William Lyon’s think if he was alive today?” Would potentially give a different answer. As a progressive he may have even got into electric earlier who knows
Tata didn’t want Jaguar back in 2007 they wanted Land Rover and every Jaguar fan has to recognise that. The fact that they invested and grew the brand, ok maybe not in the way some would like, has to be applauded.
The Jaguar chasing volume game isn’t happening now Reddiesel it happened in the 2010s. At this point they know it’s all over and what we are seeing in the last two years and for the next three is an attempt to reinvent themselves. The plan is, as i understand it from the investor calls
Single new platform for Jaguar electric 100%
Single factory for Jaguar
The only current car going beyond 2025 is the ipace and this will be discontinued during the 25-28 period
A small range of new electric cars launching from 2025
Range complete by 2028
Sales volume of approximately 40000 cars a year worldwide
More exclusive luxurious market place than today
Focus on individualisation
The designs to be modern and forward looking whilst using styling cues from the past (I guess think RR and Bentley)
Sounds to me like preparation for a sell off in 2028.
Let’s see what happens. I think the XK shown here and the original XF, x351 and F-type were the golden age of the Ford era leading into the Tata era personally.
I wouldn’t bet against the company being owned by the likes of Dyson, Apple or some other consumer brand after 2028 I think the era of the car manufacturer as we know it is coming to an end
The Jaguar chasing volume game isn’t happening now Reddiesel it happened in the 2010s. At this point they know it’s all over and what we are seeing in the last two years and for the next three is an attempt to reinvent themselves. The plan is, as i understand it from the investor calls
Single new platform for Jaguar electric 100%
Single factory for Jaguar
The only current car going beyond 2025 is the ipace and this will be discontinued during the 25-28 period
A small range of new electric cars launching from 2025
Range complete by 2028
Sales volume of approximately 40000 cars a year worldwide
More exclusive luxurious market place than today
Focus on individualisation
The designs to be modern and forward looking whilst using styling cues from the past (I guess think RR and Bentley)
Sounds to me like preparation for a sell off in 2028.
Let’s see what happens. I think the XK shown here and the original XF, x351 and F-type were the golden age of the Ford era leading into the Tata era personally.
I wouldn’t bet against the company being owned by the likes of Dyson, Apple or some other consumer brand after 2028 I think the era of the car manufacturer as we know it is coming to an end
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