XJ12 Series 3 Manual, Hard Work Personified?

[reddiesel]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275166371126?hash=item4...

I would have thought this would have been a bit of an arduous drive and like a manual XJR comparatively hard to find ? Its apparently been converted by its Owner which begs the question why ?

[a8hex]

The bodywork on that looks really nice

I think there are quite a few conversions for XJS V12s to manuals, I can't remember whether it was available that way in the early days but Chris Window has done conversions and I'm sure he mentioned a manual X300 V12 once too.

Edited by a8hex on Monday 14th February 09:21

[reddiesel]

[quote=a8hex]The bodywork on that looks really nice

I think there are quite a few conversions for XJS V12s to manuals, I can't remember whether it was available that way in the early days but Chris Window has done conversions and I'm sure he mentioned a manual X300 V12 once too.

Edited by a8hex on Monday 14th February 09:21

[/quote

I should have thought you would want legs like Schwarzeneger queuing in slow moving traffic .

[jamieduff1981]

reddiesel said:

Its apparently been converted by its Owner which begs the question why ?

That really shouldn't need too much pondering. Automatics are a good way of converting large volumes of petrol into crushing disappointment.

[lukeharding]

Well, it could make the car a lot more lively like a manual conversion does in an XJ-S. A more 'sports saloon' sort of character (potentially)

[a8hex]

lukeharding said:

Well, it could make the car a lot more lively like a manual conversion does in an XJ-S. A more 'sports saloon' sort of character (potentially)

That was the comment about the manual V12 X300, he said when he drove it he preferred it to the supercharged XJR.

[reddiesel]

jamieduff1981 said:

That really shouldn't need too much pondering. Automatics are a good way of converting large volumes of petrol into crushing disappointment.

Is that strictly true ? I dont think anyone would be disappointed by an Automatic XJR . Not seeking to nitpick Jamie but for me a manual gearbox in an XJ and indeed most luxury saloons completely defeats the cars purpose . The car in the link is a lovely looking thing and obviously belongs to an Enthusiast. I genuinely wonder what the owner was thinking perhaps I should phone him up :

[reddiesel]

I just gave the Owner a call , a lovely Gentleman like all Jaguar Owners are and he tells me he just fancied sticking the manual box in . A beautiful looking car and only for sale on account of a recently purchased Jensen Interceptor which is taking up both funds and space .
I suppose the next question is would you keep the manual or convert it back to automatic ? Would the manual be more or less desirable ?

[lukeharding]

reddiesel said:

Is that strictly true ? I dont think anyone would be disappointed by an Automatic XJR . Not seeking to nitpick Jamie but for me a manual gearbox in an XJ and indeed most luxury saloons completely defeats the cars purpose . The car in the link is a lovely looking thing and obviously belongs to an Enthusiast. I genuinely wonder what the owner was thinking perhaps I should phone him up :

At the moment I'm being a little disappointed by an automatic XJR and wish it was a manual.

reddiesel said:

I just gave the Owner a call , a lovely Gentleman like all Jaguar Owners are and he tells me he just fancied sticking the manual box in . A beautiful looking car and only for sale on account of a recently purchased Jensen Interceptor which is taking up both funds and space .
I suppose the next question is would you keep the manual or convert it back to automatic ? Would the manual be more or less desirable ?

Would you just not buy an auto one rather than have the expense of converting it back? The manual makes it more desirable for me, just as it would in an XJ-S

[reddiesel]

Hi Luke , yeah I take your point about just simply buying an Automatic rather than converting a Manual . XJR in Automatic form I have found perfectly adequate performance wise and I think most do . Could more be extracted ? Yes almost certainly . Love the Renault Gordini on your website , there cant be many left within these shores .

[lukeharding]

You're quite right about performance on an XJR, an auto one is certainly quick enough and there is nothing inherently wrong with the gearbox, I just feel a manual would be more involving.
The original autobox on this S3 isn't a 'bad' gearbox either for its time, but does feel slow now and robs power, which is why I think I'd enjoy a manual (indeed, planning on converting one of my S1s).
The Gordini is a rare little thing, and sweet to drive too. I've got a pair of them, but neither on the road at the moment. Too many projects!

[V12 Migaloo]

That is actually quite cheap for a good Series III V12 and especially cheap with the conversion done...

[V12 Migaloo]

reddiesel said:

I just gave the Owner a call , a lovely Gentleman like all Jaguar Owners are and he tells me he just fancied sticking the manual box in . A beautiful looking car and only for sale on account of a recently purchased Jensen Interceptor which is taking up both funds and space .
I suppose the next question is would you keep the manual or convert it back to automatic ? Would the manual be more or less desirable ?

Once you've stretched her legs in 2nd, 3rd and 4th you'd certainly keep the manual. The V12 is a high rev'ing engine but you can do that with the auto. I've had mine converted.... It actually makes it more desirable... find me another manual V12 (from anyone) for 10K!!!!

[reddiesel]

V12 Migaloo said:

Once you've stretched her legs in 2nd, 3rd and 4th you'd certainly keep the manual. The V12 is a high rev'ing engine but you can do that with the auto. I've had mine converted.... It actually makes it more desirable... find me another manual V12 (from anyone) for 10K!!!!

Thats much what the Owner told me when I spoke with him yesterday . I was delighted when he also told me that he wont be accepting any silly offers for the car preferring just to keep it till the right buyer comes along . There is nothing worse than these cars being bought as " cheap flash " by an Owner with no idea or concern about proper maintenance . A Bloke round the corner employed as a security guard recently showed up with a Bentley Continental , Saturday I saw him down at the local East European Tyre Emporium presumably trying to source some part worns

[reddiesel]

V12 Migaloo said:

That is actually quite cheap for a good Series III V12 and especially cheap with the conversion done...

On another completely different issue , I often see these Series lll V12 for sale , Ebay generally seem to have a couple and reasonably priced for what they are . I dont think I have ever come across one suffering from much corrosion and often still in their original paint . Quite incredible when you think how quickly the Series ll could rust . The Series lll V12 to my recollection soldiered on for a bit after the other Series lll models had ceased Production .

[a8hex]

reddiesel said:

The Series lll V12 to my recollection soldiered on for a bit after the other Series lll models had ceased Production .

Yes, the XJ40 was initially engineered to make it difficult to fit a V configuration engine so if they wanted to sell V12s they had to keep going with the Series III. Hopefully by the end they got good at making them. I know my uncle who had a VDP Double Six had John Egan's home phone number so he could call for sympathy when it caused problems again. It did get sorted but sadly was sold before my uncle realised I might be interested.

And any discussion about XJ12s wouldn't be complete without ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAtlYSI_QB0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5DwxnMj6Ds

[reddiesel]

A great watch as always but you must see my point about a manual box in such a vehicle . It completely spoils both the ambience and the serenity , the pleasure of just wafting along behind perhaps Jaguars greatest engine . You simply dont want to be bothered by something as onerous as wrestling with a clutch and gearshift . This is the world of Elgar and Oxford brogues , of elegant perfumed women in cashmere coats and seamed stockings . Some of you Blokes it seems want to drag race Wayne in his chipped and lowered Corsa , its simply not the Jaguar way .

[a8hex]

reddiesel said:

A great watch as always but you must see my point about a manual box in such a vehicle . It completely spoils both the ambience and the serenity , the pleasure of just wafting along behind perhaps Jaguars greatest engine . You simply dont want to be bothered by something as onerous as wrestling with a clutch and gearshift . This is the world of Elgar and Oxford brogues , of elegant perfumed women in cashmere coats and seamed stockings . Some of you Blokes it seems want to drag race Wayne in his chipped and lowered Corsa , its simply not the Jaguar way .

Actually I'm with you.
I had an XJ6 (X300) as my daily driver for years and to me a manual would have completely missed the point of the car.
But I think there is a difference between people who buy new(ish) Jaguars and use them as daily drivers and the later owner who has it as a classic car. I used the XJ to waft from one place to another. I knew I could climb into the cabin at the end of the day feeling stressed and be calm and serene by the time I got home.
I don't think that is what owners of classic cars are generally looking for. You have such a classic because you enjoy the experience of driving the thing and I can imagine that the experience of driving a manual is more intense than driving an auto. I had an XK150 and immensely enjoyed the experience of driving it. I would not have wanted it as a daily driver but it was ideal for me as a toy because I found it more involving than I did say an E-Type which feels so modern in comparison.
I'm in two minds about the manual XJ12 as a classic, I'm sure I would enjoy driving it. I'm not sure whether I would enjoy a toy to waft about in, I don't know whether that would be me and besides I'd love to get my X300 back on the road and if I'm going to have a waft'mobile I probably want it to be my own car.
As a new car (read daily driver) I would not understand a manual XJR but I can understand one as a toy.

[P5BNij]

Perhaps if you think of the advertised XJ12 as a Lamborghini Espada that was built in Coventry it might throw a different light on it. I'm only half joking too!

Every time these older XJs come into focus on PH I get warm buzz, there's just something about them which other marques don't have.

[reddiesel]

fesuvious said:

Am I the only person struggling to work out exactly what colour it is from the pics?

Looks green to me but I see what you mean , in some pictures it looks almost dark blue