XKR - pre purchase inspection: how to check tensioners?
Discussion
Hi guys
Seems my cunning plan has a flaw.
Saw a lovely XKR yesterday but there's no evidence in the history of reciepts (there are some gaps) of the tensioners ever having been replaced. Lots of evidence of all the other essential stuff (brake discs, bushes, hoses etc) but not that.
It's done 78K. 2002 51 plate so I believe it would have had the 'improved' MK2 tensioners but believe they are still plastic and prone to failure.
The plan was that I would book an inspection with ClickMechanic today and ask them to check whether they'd been replaced.
Flaw in that plan is that I believe the cam cover needs removing to inspect - and they're not allowed to remove ANYTHING. As it's then classed as the mechanic having done some work/made changes and therefore they are then liable for any problems... etc etc.
I guess the AA and RAC will be the same?
Anyone have any ideas? I'm not massively mechanically inclined myself but have done basics (changed spark plugs, alternator, throttle body but all on a simpler MX5) and perhaps I could do it - if the dealer lets me. How long would it take - is it simply a removal of the cover, few bolts, stick your nose in, job done? Problem is that the car isn't that close to me - actually that's not entirely true, it's only half an hour from work, but then it's a nightmare to get home again from there.
The car is otherwise MINT and I really don't want to walk away from it, but I'm also very reluctant to buy without knowing about the tensioners!
No noises/clunking when engine is started from cold so guess they're at least reasonable now, could always check/change once I've bought the car, but I don't think I can knock the £400 replacement cost off the purchase price without having proved they need to be replaced.
Any ideas welcome!
Thanks
Ross
Seems my cunning plan has a flaw.
Saw a lovely XKR yesterday but there's no evidence in the history of reciepts (there are some gaps) of the tensioners ever having been replaced. Lots of evidence of all the other essential stuff (brake discs, bushes, hoses etc) but not that.
It's done 78K. 2002 51 plate so I believe it would have had the 'improved' MK2 tensioners but believe they are still plastic and prone to failure.
The plan was that I would book an inspection with ClickMechanic today and ask them to check whether they'd been replaced.
Flaw in that plan is that I believe the cam cover needs removing to inspect - and they're not allowed to remove ANYTHING. As it's then classed as the mechanic having done some work/made changes and therefore they are then liable for any problems... etc etc.
I guess the AA and RAC will be the same?
Anyone have any ideas? I'm not massively mechanically inclined myself but have done basics (changed spark plugs, alternator, throttle body but all on a simpler MX5) and perhaps I could do it - if the dealer lets me. How long would it take - is it simply a removal of the cover, few bolts, stick your nose in, job done? Problem is that the car isn't that close to me - actually that's not entirely true, it's only half an hour from work, but then it's a nightmare to get home again from there.
The car is otherwise MINT and I really don't want to walk away from it, but I'm also very reluctant to buy without knowing about the tensioners!
No noises/clunking when engine is started from cold so guess they're at least reasonable now, could always check/change once I've bought the car, but I don't think I can knock the £400 replacement cost off the purchase price without having proved they need to be replaced.
Any ideas welcome!
Thanks
Ross
catso said:
Don't know but if the seller can't show they've been changed then assume they have not and buy accordingly.
That's the point of a service history and why a car 'should' be worth more with it.
^^^ this. Its a fairly big/expensive job and you'd keep the receipt for peace of mind/resale.That's the point of a service history and why a car 'should' be worth more with it.
I compiled this from a number of sources as well as my experiences of working on my own V8 Jaguars. The X308 and first generation XK are mechanically identical so much still applies.
The secondary tensioners are a easy enough DIY job to change.
JS X308 Buyers Guide
OVERVIEW
To avoid model confusion between the 8 XJ models the 1997-2002 V8 engined XJ8 can be referred to by its factory designation as the X308. The all new at the time V8 engine in the 308 has similar architecture to current cars and is available in a 3.2, 4.0 with VVT and a supercharged 4.0 and all versions are 5 speed auto only.
Engines were revised in the late 1999 model year from the original AJ26 version to AJ27. A car fitted with the revised engine version can be identified by a VIN number ending in five , not six digits. AJ26 engines suffered weak water pumps, thermostat failures, secondary timing chain tensioner and throttle body failures and had a Nicasil coating applied directly on the cylinder bore walls rather than using conventional steel liners pressed into the block.
ENGINE NICASIL
Some Nicasil coatings errroded due to a combination of high Sulphur content fuel and repeated short trips. Sulphur maximum allowable limits in petrol were lowered considerably in Jan 2000 so any pre 2000 Nicasil coated engine that you know for sure is OK now should not be any concern. Several Nicasil engines were changed under warranty so you may find a pre 2000 car with a later steel lined engine fitted - identify this by the presence of a green tag on the head buried at the back of the RH bank and the engine change should also be recorded in the history. Symptoms of erosion and loss of compression are fast cranking, poor cold starting, a lumpy idle and heavy oil deposits in the breather system and air intake. Crankcase pressure will be high too – a quick check for this is to undo and slightly lift the oil filler cap at hot idle. There should be little or no internal pressure or fumes escaping. Jaguar dealers can perform a blow by check to determine engine condition. A good condition engine will show less than 20l/m anything over 30 l/m is shagged.
ENGINE COOLING
Impellors on AJ26 water pumps can disintegrate giving a loss of efficiency leading to overheating and potential head gasket failure. An early pump can be changed to the later version with a metal, not plastic impellor. The temperature gauge is software driven and is not always an accurate refection of actual coolant temperature.
For an indication of water pump efficiency, remove the coolant header tank cap when the engine is absolutely stone cold, start up and gently increase engine speed. If the water pump is healthy you should see a strong stream of bubble free coolant into the tank.
Thermoststs can jam either open or shut.
You may be able to identify the later type of pump by the presence of a black plastic, not metal gasket, but the only certain way is to remove the pump and have a look. Spring type coolant hose clips can loose tension and let pipes blow off and some plastic parts on the hoses, unions and thermostat housing are very delicate. Check all over the engine compartment for evidence of coolant leaks, particularly around the thermostat/filler cap tower and coolant (valley) pipes underneath the inlet manifold as well as around the expansion tank hidden under the front of the nearside wing. Leave the engine idling to make sure the cooling fans kick in. Sniff around too as hot coolant has a distinctive smell. Auxiliary heater pump failures cause loss of heat output in the cabin at low engine RPM. Two types of coolant available for the XJ8 - don’t mix the later orange long life one with the earlier green one.
ENGINE THROTTLE BODIES
AJ26 throttle bodies all ought to have been changed to the later design under a factory safety recall. Some of the early bodies suffered from failing actuating motors causing to the engine to cut out completely on a high speed overrun. The later design should have been factory fitted to all cars from VIN 043775 onwards.
SECONDARY TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS AND CHAINS
The only post AJ26 revision engine issue that remains is the secondary timing chain tensioners. These were replaced by a mk 2 version in Oct 1998 from engine no 98102106XX but the mk 2 type still had a plastic body which can crack or break up leading to slipped or broken chains. Mk 1 tensioners are actuated by engine oil pressure and failure can often be identified by a sharp rattling noise similar to a bicycle chain dragging on the chain guard on a cold start. The mk2 type is permanently tensioned by an integral spring instead which means it’ll usually fail silently.
A permanent solution is to retro-fit the later mk3 version tensioner made with a metal, not plastic body from the later 4.2 incarnation of the V8 engine. Jaguar issued a TSB in 2005 advising the fitment of these to the X308. Only way to be sure of which tensioners are fitted to an 308 is to either have a receipt with tensioner part numbers C2A1511 and C2A1512 which are the metal bodied type and the required 4 shorter bolts to fit them on it relating to that particular car or remove the RH cam cover - the LH is a PITA to get off - and have a look. A reddish/orange (mk1) or cream (mk2) plastic tensioner body is bad news, a grey aluminum metal one (mk3) is good.
The cam phasing on the V8 places uneven loading on the timing chains and they can stretch at high mileages or on neglected cars. If this is identified then a full chain and tensioner replacement is required costing up to £1000. If the chains and sprockets and guides are servicable then it’s a sensible move to fit the mk3 secondary tensioners which is a fairly easy DIY job. Tensioners cost around £75 a set plus a couple of quid for new bolts. Camshaft setting tools can be hired from the Jaguar Enthusiasts’ Club. Secondary tensioners can also be changed without any setting tools by tie wrapping the secondary chain to the exhaust cam sprocket and jamming the chain on the inlet cam sprocket with a wedge of wood to preserve the timing and removing the exhaust cam alltogether. Taking the cam out gives just enough room to ease the secondary tensioner away from position and fit a replacement. Chains slipping one tooth – usually on a cold start - will give a very rough running engine, more than one tooth slipped means exhaust valves will contact pistons.
A good general rule of thumb for engine condition is quiet running with just faint injector tick audible and internal cleanliness. Bright shiny metal inside the oil filler cap and dipstick along with clean oil and no evidence of leaks is a good sign, as is clear coolant that does not smell or taste bitter or acrid.
GEARBOX/ DRIVELINE
X308 gearboxes were marketed as “sealed for life” meaning no oil changes are called for in the schedule to reduce servicing costs. It's a ZF unit in the n/a cars and a Mercedes one in the supercharged cars. Any hesitation or engagement of Drive with a jerk as the engine speed rises means a potential gearbox failure looming and any gearbox stuck in 4th or 5th or only driving in reverse is beyond saving. A very faint gear whine may be heard in intermediate gears but any gearbox issues or concerns are potentially fatal. An oil and filter change might be all that’s needed to cure a gearbox malfunction like occasional reluctant or rough changes but that’s never guaranteed. Gear changes should be seamless and quiet and you should have instant response using the throttle, Sport switch and J gate selector.
Ideally the gearbox oil and filter should be changed at 50k then at 25k intervals; it's not a simple drain and refill on the ZF box as the final fill has to be done quickly with the engine running and within a narrow temperature range. There is no conventional dipstick for checking oil level.The ZF 5 speed box on the n/a cars requires Esso/Mobil longlife LT 71141 fluid also known as Lifeguard Fluid 5 and not conventional Dexron 3. The Mercedes gearbox in the supercharged version is also sealed for life but the same change requirement apply although you can use standard Dexron 3 in this box and once you have fitted a temporary dipstick it’s a much less complex job to do. Some transmission specialists offer a flush and change service done via the rather fragile oil cooler pipes in the radiator which also gets most of the oil otherwise retained in the torque converter out.
The same sealed for life marketing applies to the rear axle. Oil ought be changed but there’s no drain plug so old oil has to be vacuum extracted out of the filler plug. Refill with a API GL5 75 or 85/90 oil. Whiny diffs - a high mileage Jaguar speciality feature - can be quieted down considerably with EP140 or even EP250 oil.
BODY, PAINT AND CORROSION
Substantially better than earlier Jaguars. But look for corrosion round the rear wheel arches, round the front and rear screens especially underneath the screen rubbers in the bottom corners, bottom of the front wings, sill closing panels, jacking points and most importantly on the inner wing behind the front shocks on both sides. There's a reinforcing plate where the engine sub frame V mount is bolted to the body rail and some cars have corroded badly here. Corrosion around the same area may also be visible in the engine compartment on the top of the body rail around the heads of the two 10mm bolts that retain the top of the V mounts. Corrosion here is an MOT fail and a big welding job if the subframe has to be dropped. Another area to check is the joint between the rear of the front inner wings and the bulkhead. Body and paintwork is otherwise pretty good however some darker coloured cars suffer from peeling lacquer. Darker cars often appear to have slight but consistent orange peel in the lacquer all over the body too but you can use this to spot inconsistencies and start thinking about accident damage repairs. Bumper corners are susceptible to damage and bumper mounting brackets can corrode. Lacquer on the XJ8 is soft and easy to scratch with careless washing Providing you can’t actually feel scratches with a thumbnail and the paint colour underneath is OK it’s possible to restore the bodywork to a glossy finish with a mornings detailing if that's your thing. Stripe down body flanks if car has one is hand painted and not always completely straight.
INTERIOR
Very cozy given the size of the car. Always leather with different levels of trim and seating style. Wood trim clips on and is easy to change to different design. Driver’s seat back and steering wheels tend to suffer from wear. Head linings can sag. LWB version has extra room in the back. Check everything and repeatedly cycle the whole climate and a/c system through all vent operations and temperature range and run the interior fans at high speed while doing so and listen for vibration. Foam can get dislodged from the flaps and jam in the fans.
SUSPENSION, TYRES AND BRAKES
X308s are heavy and can be hard on suspension and brakes. Listen and feel very carefully for any clonking or knocking over bumps and make sure the car comes to a straight judder-free stop under both light and hard braking. Stop the car on the handbrake to make sure it works. A sharp rattle heard and felt through the steering over bumps combined with a little free play in the steering wheel may be a worn crush joint on the lower steering column. A clattery rattle from the rear is likely to be either failed shock bushes or worn rear silencer hangers. A soft clonk from the front might just be anti roll bar bushes. X308s with weak rear A frame bushes or worn rear hub pivots will tend to self steer and wander about under hard acceleration.
Look and feel round the tyres for uneven wear patterns; any suspension wear or bush failure allowing incorrect geometry will cause tyres to feather badly and excessive wear in the inside edges of the fronts is sometimes a symptom of excess negative camber from wishbone bush or ball joint failure rather than excess toe out. There is a subtle bifference in the two wear patterns with excess toe out usually causing a even slope across the tyre and excess camber more likley to show a sudden step up in wear on the inside 25%. Slight and even feathering inside and out is normal on the front tyres.
308s are very sensitive to wheel and tyre imbalances or damage, typically you'll feel a steering wobble between 50-70MPH and possibly vibration through the seat from anything over 45MPH if there are any tyre problems or buckled wheels. A Hunter Roadforce wheel balance may help diagnosis. Incorrect tyre pressures and knackered or faulty tyres will severely influence handling and ride. Most X308s exhibit a faint exhaust harmonic around 50 and another one at 65MPH. You might possibly experience a hint of driveline vibration through the body too. Don't expect too much in the way of the legendary Jaguar ride quality either - it's acceptable on touring (black shocks) suspension and 16" wheels but sport suspension cars (green shocks) have higher damping rates and have a thicker front anti roll bar and one fitted on the rear too which when combined with larger diameter wheels and lower profile tyres gives a hard crashy ride on poor roads. CATS suspension may be fitted as an option to any X308. CATS has electronically controlled valves in the shocks to vary the damping rates depending on driving style. Identify CATS by the presence of a plastic cover over the top of the front shock absorber with a lead going into it.
ELECTRICIAL/OBD11 DIAGNOSTICS
Electrical systems are generally pretty robust. As with any old car you might have the odd problem so check absolutely everything works. X308 is OBD2 compliant and a £20 code reader plugged into the socket in the driver’s footwell will help diagnosis a lot. Electric aerials are easy to damage but easy to replace, there are occasional O2 sensor, airflow meter and brake light switch failures. Non working key fobs usually need nothing more than new batteries, a clean and easy DIY reprogramme. 308's need a strong battery to avoid random error messages appearing on start up. If you get one – usually TRAC FAIL – the battery is on its way out or needs several days on a trickle charge to bring it back up to full capacity.
BUYING AND LIVING WITH AN XJ
Generally the 1997-2002 XJ8 is a strong car and capable of big mileages if maintained well and not abused or neglected. It's mostly easy enough car for a competent DIYer to work on and parts are pretty reasonable and in good supply from several independents and the Jaguar Classic Parts scheme. The few specialist tools required can be hired from the JEC.
Expect around 26/8 MPG on the motorway or touring, between 20 and 24 around town and mid teens or less if you're nailing it in a n/a car, the supercharged versions typically use more. Quality tyres start around £100 a corner in 16" diameter size. Early cars fall into a cheaper VED bracket then later ones. Servicing schedule is annual or 10000 miles. 70k service is the expensive one on n/a cars
3.2 does 0-60 in 8.1s and the 4.0 is a second quicker.
Shortening intervals between servicing and using a genuine fully synthetic oil is worthwhile IMO. It’ll help protect the timing chains and give a small improvement in fuel economy. Keeping oil topped up to the maximum mark - both my V8's have used a little - is a plan too as it reduces stress on the oil and both reduces the possibility of oil starvation on rapid cornering and seems somehow to make a subtle improvement in refinement. A through rust proofing and full fluid change is a benefit too if you want to preserve the car. Waxoil has the effect of lubricating suspension components and a good soaking - not anywhere near the brakes 'tho please - will subtly improve the ride quality.
Keeping the inside of the throttle body and the elements of the airflow meter spotlessly clean as well as the 2.5mm calibrated bleed hole in the breather system will stabilise and improve throttle response and consistentency especially at small openings. Again it's a subtle but worthwhile improvement. Any leaks in the air intake or breather system need fixing.
Providing the suspension components are all OK and the tyres are reasonable a occasional Hunter full 4 wheel laser alignment geometry check and reset will improve feel of the car dramatically. Small changes in tyre pressure have a unusually big influence on how the car drives too.
One last thing. A software error means its a very bad thing to start an X308 from cold and then switch off again straightaway or before allowing the temp gauge to move off the cold section of the scale. There's a chance are it’ll flood when you next start and wash all the oil of the bores and it’s a right PITA to get it running again.
The secondary tensioners are a easy enough DIY job to change.
JS X308 Buyers Guide
OVERVIEW
To avoid model confusion between the 8 XJ models the 1997-2002 V8 engined XJ8 can be referred to by its factory designation as the X308. The all new at the time V8 engine in the 308 has similar architecture to current cars and is available in a 3.2, 4.0 with VVT and a supercharged 4.0 and all versions are 5 speed auto only.
Engines were revised in the late 1999 model year from the original AJ26 version to AJ27. A car fitted with the revised engine version can be identified by a VIN number ending in five , not six digits. AJ26 engines suffered weak water pumps, thermostat failures, secondary timing chain tensioner and throttle body failures and had a Nicasil coating applied directly on the cylinder bore walls rather than using conventional steel liners pressed into the block.
ENGINE NICASIL
Some Nicasil coatings errroded due to a combination of high Sulphur content fuel and repeated short trips. Sulphur maximum allowable limits in petrol were lowered considerably in Jan 2000 so any pre 2000 Nicasil coated engine that you know for sure is OK now should not be any concern. Several Nicasil engines were changed under warranty so you may find a pre 2000 car with a later steel lined engine fitted - identify this by the presence of a green tag on the head buried at the back of the RH bank and the engine change should also be recorded in the history. Symptoms of erosion and loss of compression are fast cranking, poor cold starting, a lumpy idle and heavy oil deposits in the breather system and air intake. Crankcase pressure will be high too – a quick check for this is to undo and slightly lift the oil filler cap at hot idle. There should be little or no internal pressure or fumes escaping. Jaguar dealers can perform a blow by check to determine engine condition. A good condition engine will show less than 20l/m anything over 30 l/m is shagged.
ENGINE COOLING
Impellors on AJ26 water pumps can disintegrate giving a loss of efficiency leading to overheating and potential head gasket failure. An early pump can be changed to the later version with a metal, not plastic impellor. The temperature gauge is software driven and is not always an accurate refection of actual coolant temperature.
For an indication of water pump efficiency, remove the coolant header tank cap when the engine is absolutely stone cold, start up and gently increase engine speed. If the water pump is healthy you should see a strong stream of bubble free coolant into the tank.
Thermoststs can jam either open or shut.
You may be able to identify the later type of pump by the presence of a black plastic, not metal gasket, but the only certain way is to remove the pump and have a look. Spring type coolant hose clips can loose tension and let pipes blow off and some plastic parts on the hoses, unions and thermostat housing are very delicate. Check all over the engine compartment for evidence of coolant leaks, particularly around the thermostat/filler cap tower and coolant (valley) pipes underneath the inlet manifold as well as around the expansion tank hidden under the front of the nearside wing. Leave the engine idling to make sure the cooling fans kick in. Sniff around too as hot coolant has a distinctive smell. Auxiliary heater pump failures cause loss of heat output in the cabin at low engine RPM. Two types of coolant available for the XJ8 - don’t mix the later orange long life one with the earlier green one.
ENGINE THROTTLE BODIES
AJ26 throttle bodies all ought to have been changed to the later design under a factory safety recall. Some of the early bodies suffered from failing actuating motors causing to the engine to cut out completely on a high speed overrun. The later design should have been factory fitted to all cars from VIN 043775 onwards.
SECONDARY TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS AND CHAINS
The only post AJ26 revision engine issue that remains is the secondary timing chain tensioners. These were replaced by a mk 2 version in Oct 1998 from engine no 98102106XX but the mk 2 type still had a plastic body which can crack or break up leading to slipped or broken chains. Mk 1 tensioners are actuated by engine oil pressure and failure can often be identified by a sharp rattling noise similar to a bicycle chain dragging on the chain guard on a cold start. The mk2 type is permanently tensioned by an integral spring instead which means it’ll usually fail silently.
A permanent solution is to retro-fit the later mk3 version tensioner made with a metal, not plastic body from the later 4.2 incarnation of the V8 engine. Jaguar issued a TSB in 2005 advising the fitment of these to the X308. Only way to be sure of which tensioners are fitted to an 308 is to either have a receipt with tensioner part numbers C2A1511 and C2A1512 which are the metal bodied type and the required 4 shorter bolts to fit them on it relating to that particular car or remove the RH cam cover - the LH is a PITA to get off - and have a look. A reddish/orange (mk1) or cream (mk2) plastic tensioner body is bad news, a grey aluminum metal one (mk3) is good.
The cam phasing on the V8 places uneven loading on the timing chains and they can stretch at high mileages or on neglected cars. If this is identified then a full chain and tensioner replacement is required costing up to £1000. If the chains and sprockets and guides are servicable then it’s a sensible move to fit the mk3 secondary tensioners which is a fairly easy DIY job. Tensioners cost around £75 a set plus a couple of quid for new bolts. Camshaft setting tools can be hired from the Jaguar Enthusiasts’ Club. Secondary tensioners can also be changed without any setting tools by tie wrapping the secondary chain to the exhaust cam sprocket and jamming the chain on the inlet cam sprocket with a wedge of wood to preserve the timing and removing the exhaust cam alltogether. Taking the cam out gives just enough room to ease the secondary tensioner away from position and fit a replacement. Chains slipping one tooth – usually on a cold start - will give a very rough running engine, more than one tooth slipped means exhaust valves will contact pistons.
A good general rule of thumb for engine condition is quiet running with just faint injector tick audible and internal cleanliness. Bright shiny metal inside the oil filler cap and dipstick along with clean oil and no evidence of leaks is a good sign, as is clear coolant that does not smell or taste bitter or acrid.
GEARBOX/ DRIVELINE
X308 gearboxes were marketed as “sealed for life” meaning no oil changes are called for in the schedule to reduce servicing costs. It's a ZF unit in the n/a cars and a Mercedes one in the supercharged cars. Any hesitation or engagement of Drive with a jerk as the engine speed rises means a potential gearbox failure looming and any gearbox stuck in 4th or 5th or only driving in reverse is beyond saving. A very faint gear whine may be heard in intermediate gears but any gearbox issues or concerns are potentially fatal. An oil and filter change might be all that’s needed to cure a gearbox malfunction like occasional reluctant or rough changes but that’s never guaranteed. Gear changes should be seamless and quiet and you should have instant response using the throttle, Sport switch and J gate selector.
Ideally the gearbox oil and filter should be changed at 50k then at 25k intervals; it's not a simple drain and refill on the ZF box as the final fill has to be done quickly with the engine running and within a narrow temperature range. There is no conventional dipstick for checking oil level.The ZF 5 speed box on the n/a cars requires Esso/Mobil longlife LT 71141 fluid also known as Lifeguard Fluid 5 and not conventional Dexron 3. The Mercedes gearbox in the supercharged version is also sealed for life but the same change requirement apply although you can use standard Dexron 3 in this box and once you have fitted a temporary dipstick it’s a much less complex job to do. Some transmission specialists offer a flush and change service done via the rather fragile oil cooler pipes in the radiator which also gets most of the oil otherwise retained in the torque converter out.
The same sealed for life marketing applies to the rear axle. Oil ought be changed but there’s no drain plug so old oil has to be vacuum extracted out of the filler plug. Refill with a API GL5 75 or 85/90 oil. Whiny diffs - a high mileage Jaguar speciality feature - can be quieted down considerably with EP140 or even EP250 oil.
BODY, PAINT AND CORROSION
Substantially better than earlier Jaguars. But look for corrosion round the rear wheel arches, round the front and rear screens especially underneath the screen rubbers in the bottom corners, bottom of the front wings, sill closing panels, jacking points and most importantly on the inner wing behind the front shocks on both sides. There's a reinforcing plate where the engine sub frame V mount is bolted to the body rail and some cars have corroded badly here. Corrosion around the same area may also be visible in the engine compartment on the top of the body rail around the heads of the two 10mm bolts that retain the top of the V mounts. Corrosion here is an MOT fail and a big welding job if the subframe has to be dropped. Another area to check is the joint between the rear of the front inner wings and the bulkhead. Body and paintwork is otherwise pretty good however some darker coloured cars suffer from peeling lacquer. Darker cars often appear to have slight but consistent orange peel in the lacquer all over the body too but you can use this to spot inconsistencies and start thinking about accident damage repairs. Bumper corners are susceptible to damage and bumper mounting brackets can corrode. Lacquer on the XJ8 is soft and easy to scratch with careless washing Providing you can’t actually feel scratches with a thumbnail and the paint colour underneath is OK it’s possible to restore the bodywork to a glossy finish with a mornings detailing if that's your thing. Stripe down body flanks if car has one is hand painted and not always completely straight.
INTERIOR
Very cozy given the size of the car. Always leather with different levels of trim and seating style. Wood trim clips on and is easy to change to different design. Driver’s seat back and steering wheels tend to suffer from wear. Head linings can sag. LWB version has extra room in the back. Check everything and repeatedly cycle the whole climate and a/c system through all vent operations and temperature range and run the interior fans at high speed while doing so and listen for vibration. Foam can get dislodged from the flaps and jam in the fans.
SUSPENSION, TYRES AND BRAKES
X308s are heavy and can be hard on suspension and brakes. Listen and feel very carefully for any clonking or knocking over bumps and make sure the car comes to a straight judder-free stop under both light and hard braking. Stop the car on the handbrake to make sure it works. A sharp rattle heard and felt through the steering over bumps combined with a little free play in the steering wheel may be a worn crush joint on the lower steering column. A clattery rattle from the rear is likely to be either failed shock bushes or worn rear silencer hangers. A soft clonk from the front might just be anti roll bar bushes. X308s with weak rear A frame bushes or worn rear hub pivots will tend to self steer and wander about under hard acceleration.
Look and feel round the tyres for uneven wear patterns; any suspension wear or bush failure allowing incorrect geometry will cause tyres to feather badly and excessive wear in the inside edges of the fronts is sometimes a symptom of excess negative camber from wishbone bush or ball joint failure rather than excess toe out. There is a subtle bifference in the two wear patterns with excess toe out usually causing a even slope across the tyre and excess camber more likley to show a sudden step up in wear on the inside 25%. Slight and even feathering inside and out is normal on the front tyres.
308s are very sensitive to wheel and tyre imbalances or damage, typically you'll feel a steering wobble between 50-70MPH and possibly vibration through the seat from anything over 45MPH if there are any tyre problems or buckled wheels. A Hunter Roadforce wheel balance may help diagnosis. Incorrect tyre pressures and knackered or faulty tyres will severely influence handling and ride. Most X308s exhibit a faint exhaust harmonic around 50 and another one at 65MPH. You might possibly experience a hint of driveline vibration through the body too. Don't expect too much in the way of the legendary Jaguar ride quality either - it's acceptable on touring (black shocks) suspension and 16" wheels but sport suspension cars (green shocks) have higher damping rates and have a thicker front anti roll bar and one fitted on the rear too which when combined with larger diameter wheels and lower profile tyres gives a hard crashy ride on poor roads. CATS suspension may be fitted as an option to any X308. CATS has electronically controlled valves in the shocks to vary the damping rates depending on driving style. Identify CATS by the presence of a plastic cover over the top of the front shock absorber with a lead going into it.
ELECTRICIAL/OBD11 DIAGNOSTICS
Electrical systems are generally pretty robust. As with any old car you might have the odd problem so check absolutely everything works. X308 is OBD2 compliant and a £20 code reader plugged into the socket in the driver’s footwell will help diagnosis a lot. Electric aerials are easy to damage but easy to replace, there are occasional O2 sensor, airflow meter and brake light switch failures. Non working key fobs usually need nothing more than new batteries, a clean and easy DIY reprogramme. 308's need a strong battery to avoid random error messages appearing on start up. If you get one – usually TRAC FAIL – the battery is on its way out or needs several days on a trickle charge to bring it back up to full capacity.
BUYING AND LIVING WITH AN XJ
Generally the 1997-2002 XJ8 is a strong car and capable of big mileages if maintained well and not abused or neglected. It's mostly easy enough car for a competent DIYer to work on and parts are pretty reasonable and in good supply from several independents and the Jaguar Classic Parts scheme. The few specialist tools required can be hired from the JEC.
Expect around 26/8 MPG on the motorway or touring, between 20 and 24 around town and mid teens or less if you're nailing it in a n/a car, the supercharged versions typically use more. Quality tyres start around £100 a corner in 16" diameter size. Early cars fall into a cheaper VED bracket then later ones. Servicing schedule is annual or 10000 miles. 70k service is the expensive one on n/a cars
3.2 does 0-60 in 8.1s and the 4.0 is a second quicker.
Shortening intervals between servicing and using a genuine fully synthetic oil is worthwhile IMO. It’ll help protect the timing chains and give a small improvement in fuel economy. Keeping oil topped up to the maximum mark - both my V8's have used a little - is a plan too as it reduces stress on the oil and both reduces the possibility of oil starvation on rapid cornering and seems somehow to make a subtle improvement in refinement. A through rust proofing and full fluid change is a benefit too if you want to preserve the car. Waxoil has the effect of lubricating suspension components and a good soaking - not anywhere near the brakes 'tho please - will subtly improve the ride quality.
Keeping the inside of the throttle body and the elements of the airflow meter spotlessly clean as well as the 2.5mm calibrated bleed hole in the breather system will stabilise and improve throttle response and consistentency especially at small openings. Again it's a subtle but worthwhile improvement. Any leaks in the air intake or breather system need fixing.
Providing the suspension components are all OK and the tyres are reasonable a occasional Hunter full 4 wheel laser alignment geometry check and reset will improve feel of the car dramatically. Small changes in tyre pressure have a unusually big influence on how the car drives too.
One last thing. A software error means its a very bad thing to start an X308 from cold and then switch off again straightaway or before allowing the temp gauge to move off the cold section of the scale. There's a chance are it’ll flood when you next start and wash all the oil of the bores and it’s a right PITA to get it running again.
mrrossi said:
Good thinking... Although more likely that Jag would have done in on a pre 2002 car under warranty where it was covered. Was it covered on a 2002 plus car as Jag had already "fixed" it?! Will give them a bell anyway and see if they have any records
Tensioners were never replaced "under warranty" unless they failed. It is highly unlikely that anyone would pay £2k to a dealer to do the job rather than £1k to an independent. Fortunately few cars suffer catastrophic failure, talking to dealers and independents if the tensioner fails they usually slip a cog and missfire. Catastrophic failure is difficult to diagnose but is characterised by chain failure that can be related to just the chain, guides and/or tensioners. You should assume the job has not been carried out and budget for it. If its a great car it may be at a price that reflects the current state , tensioners rust etc. dream on if you think you can offer a £1 less and not get told where to put your bid. Prices aren't dropping some are going up.Finally got the XKR! Just took a little while to sell my TT.
I went for that same one I saw; great example. Paid for a pre-purchase inspection but was never able to check/confirm whether the tensioners had been replaced. I managed to knock off £300 off the purchase price because of this.
Very happy with the car - but terrified about the tensioners. So figured I'd google how to remove the cam cover and check whether they were plastic MK2s or metal MK3s.
I found a very detailed and helpful YouTube guide, but I think it's beyond my technical capabilities. I'm not sure I've got all the right size tools (deep sockets etc) and the whole cleaning up / resealing / gaskets scares the beejesus out of me. I can see me f**king it up.
So rang two local Jaguar specialists to get a quote for i) removing the camcover to check it and ii) replace with metal tensioners, if required. I knew the second should be "around" £400 from previous discussions/forums and obviously the first should be cheaper, but still feared it may be expensive due to labour costs at garages.
I almost fell off my chair when the first place said £1600!
Although that was to replace the timing chain etc and total rehaul, which I'm hoping isn't needed. They didn't seem to want to give a quote on just inspecting it as it's a fair bit of effort just to do that. I said I'd previous been told about £400 to just replace the tensioners. He went a bit quiet and then said he'd check around and get a more firm quote and someone would call me back.
No-one has yet...
Rang the second place. They said it would be around £200 just to check, as it's 1.5 hours labour and they have to replace the gasket, etc. Obviously make sense to replace there and then once they are in if it needs doing, which takes it to 4 hours labour and with parts that's £500 - plus VAT. That's a tad more than the £400 I was expecting! Are these guys just expensive or is the £400 too optimistic?!?
They also added that if the plastic has deteriorated then the top chain needs replacing, which takes it to £720 +VAT.
Soooo... what do I do (aside from PANIC!!!!)? Get more quotes? Try and take it off myself to check? Acquire X-Ray colour vision (actually, probably doesn't need to be colour, if they're plastic they'll be see-through as opposed to aluminium, right?!?!)
I went for that same one I saw; great example. Paid for a pre-purchase inspection but was never able to check/confirm whether the tensioners had been replaced. I managed to knock off £300 off the purchase price because of this.
Very happy with the car - but terrified about the tensioners. So figured I'd google how to remove the cam cover and check whether they were plastic MK2s or metal MK3s.
I found a very detailed and helpful YouTube guide, but I think it's beyond my technical capabilities. I'm not sure I've got all the right size tools (deep sockets etc) and the whole cleaning up / resealing / gaskets scares the beejesus out of me. I can see me f**king it up.
So rang two local Jaguar specialists to get a quote for i) removing the camcover to check it and ii) replace with metal tensioners, if required. I knew the second should be "around" £400 from previous discussions/forums and obviously the first should be cheaper, but still feared it may be expensive due to labour costs at garages.
I almost fell off my chair when the first place said £1600!
Although that was to replace the timing chain etc and total rehaul, which I'm hoping isn't needed. They didn't seem to want to give a quote on just inspecting it as it's a fair bit of effort just to do that. I said I'd previous been told about £400 to just replace the tensioners. He went a bit quiet and then said he'd check around and get a more firm quote and someone would call me back.
No-one has yet...
Rang the second place. They said it would be around £200 just to check, as it's 1.5 hours labour and they have to replace the gasket, etc. Obviously make sense to replace there and then once they are in if it needs doing, which takes it to 4 hours labour and with parts that's £500 - plus VAT. That's a tad more than the £400 I was expecting! Are these guys just expensive or is the £400 too optimistic?!?
They also added that if the plastic has deteriorated then the top chain needs replacing, which takes it to £720 +VAT.
Soooo... what do I do (aside from PANIC!!!!)? Get more quotes? Try and take it off myself to check? Acquire X-Ray colour vision (actually, probably doesn't need to be colour, if they're plastic they'll be see-through as opposed to aluminium, right?!?!)
Jaguar steve said:
Any garage will want to replace the gaskets as firstly there's more profit in doing so rather than reusing the old ones and secondly they don't want a job boomeranging on them if there's any leaks. Providing the gaskets are still slightly soft then there's no need to replace them unless you subsequently develop a leak.
All you have to do is remove the right hand cam cover. Simply remove the intake trunking and coils then lift the cam cover off - just a few bolts in all - and you'll clearly see the secondary tensioner between the two camshaft sprockets
This pic is showing the timing cover off too and it's the LH not RH bank but you'll get the idea.
You're looking for a metal bodied tensioner like this one
Take your time, take lots of photos if you need and FFS don't drop anything down the timing cover or in the throttle body.
Easy job. My 12 year old nephew could do it.
ETA Clarification.
All you have to do is remove the right hand cam cover. Simply remove the intake trunking and coils then lift the cam cover off - just a few bolts in all - and you'll clearly see the secondary tensioner between the two camshaft sprockets
This pic is showing the timing cover off too and it's the LH not RH bank but you'll get the idea.
You're looking for a metal bodied tensioner like this one
Take your time, take lots of photos if you need and FFS don't drop anything down the timing cover or in the throttle body.
Easy job. My 12 year old nephew could do it.
ETA Clarification.
mrrossi said:
Thanks for that, much appreciated!
IF however the gasket is not soft/cracks, and then it does leak - I guess that will then needed replacing. If I don't buy a gasket in advance/fit it back/it leaks - how serious is that? Will it damage the car if I drive it?
No but you'll have to be sensible about it and keep an eye on the area when done. Obviously if oil is pissing out and you've got clouds of smoke from it dripping on hot exhaust manifolds then you'll have to do something about it, but I've changed two sets of V8 tensioners using nothing more than a tie wrap and a block of wood and reused probably several thousand similar gaskets in good condition on other engines and never had leaks.IF however the gasket is not soft/cracks, and then it does leak - I guess that will then needed replacing. If I don't buy a gasket in advance/fit it back/it leaks - how serious is that? Will it damage the car if I drive it?
Working clean and careful is the key.
IIRC a gasket set for the V8 is about £50 - so reusing them is a gamble well worth taking IMO.
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