X Type BAD vibration.

[tvrash]

Hi guys, I bought an X Type (2.0D) today, lovely car, beautiful condition, everything works really well BUT at almost exactly 50mph we get a very obvious vibration, noisy enough in the car to make talking difficult, the steering wheel oscillates and the car shakes. Also if I brake at this time the brakes judder as if the discs are warped but that doesn't seem to be the trouble. My thoughts are a driveshaft. Under that speed the car is wonderful, perfectly behaved.
Any ideas welcomed. Thanks in advance.

Edited by tvrash on Monday 19th December 18:48

[spudgun GB]

Diesel or petrol?

I think the diesels have issues with the driveshafts. I haven't heard of it on the petrol ones though, or certainly not so much.

[tvrash]

Yes it's a diesel. It certainly seems like driveshaft. I took it out after posting this thread, up to about 75mph and nothing, perfect so it's intermittent at the moment. Diesels had a problem with driveshafts failing then ?

[spudgun GB]

I'm pretty sure there is an issue with diesel drive shafts. I have only ever had a v6 so not 100%. Pop over to www.jaguarforum.com there will be info over there about it, because that's where I picked up on it.

[PH XKR]

first things first, check your track control arm bushes as the steering and braking vibrations sound like that. Start at the cheap things to check first. If it was driveline it would be rev not speed related.

[spudgun GB]

PH XKR said:

first things first, check your track control arm bushes as the steering and braking vibrations sound like that. Start at the cheap things to check first. If it was driveline it would be rev not speed related.

drive shafts are speed related and not rev related, I hope you're not implying that they aren't. The fact that he can push through the vibration sounds like something rotating at speed with balance issues. The front lower suspension arms are worth checking but I would expect it to pull left and right under acceleration and braking if they were shot.

[spudgun GB]

worth a look.

http://www.jaguarforum.com/showthread.php?t=42189

[jamieduff1981]

spudgun GB said:

PH XKR said:

first things first, check your track control arm bushes as the steering and braking vibrations sound like that. Start at the cheap things to check first. If it was driveline it would be rev not speed related.

drive shafts are speed related and not rev related, I hope you're not implying that they aren't. The fact that he can push through the vibration sounds like something rotating at speed with balance issues. The front lower suspension arms are worth checking but I would expect it to pull left and right under acceleration and braking if they were shot.

Agreed. I've only had V6s but folk around me have had the diesels. Driveshaft issues are well known to cause resonant vibration issues. New ones are pretty cheap thankfully.

[tvrash]

Thanks guys, I'm just about to jack it up and have a look. I will get back to you with my findings.

[tvrash]

Well both sides have sideways free play which I assume is fine. Drivers side has up and down movement, not huge but enough to be obvious. My thoughts are that this is the culprit.

[Big Rumbly]

IF it only happens at 50 MPH it could be something as simple as front wheel/s out of balance

[motco]

Big Rumbly said:

IF it only happens at 50 MPH it could be something as simple as front wheel/s out of balance

Precisely! Don't look for a complex cause until you've eliminated the simple ones!

[tvrash]

No it doesn't only happen at 50mph, it starts at 50 and continues as long as I can hang into the wheel.

[tvrash]

OK, update. I just took the car out for a short blast. Got up to about 75mph and silky smooth, decided to try the brakes hard and it was like driving on corrugations, not like a warped disc. As soon as the brakes did this the other problem came back at 50mph up to whatever speed I could get to with shaking my fillings loose, about 65. I tried lifting off the throttle, no difference, I tried putting the car into neutral, no difference. It was almost as if the hard braking started it off again, before I did the brake test it was fine.

[motco]

tvrash said:

No it doesn't only happen at 50mph, it starts at 50 and continues as long as I can hang into the wheel.

I would still check wheel balance first. It is more likely than a driveshaft which otherwise exhibits no symptoms. When CVJs fail they usually make noises at a frequency directly related to road speed and variably with steering angle and suspension deflection. In order to vibrate in a resonant manner, I would expect a driveshaft to be in a very poor state. As for X-Type diesels having driveshaft problems, I have had a 2.2D (very torquey)for four years and been a frequent reader/contributor to the Jaguar forum, and haven't noticed driveshafts as high on the list of problems. In fact, as I understand it, the diesels have a feature in the mapping that limits engine torque in the lower gears in order to protect the drivetrain. It would be worthwhile reading the Mk3 Mondeo forums as well because they share a lot of the powerline components. Jaguar X Type forum
Ford forums

[motco]

tvrash said:

OK, update. I just took the car out for a short blast. Got up to about 75mph and silky smooth, decided to try the brakes hard and it was like driving on corrugations, not like a warped disc. As soon as the brakes did this the other problem came back at 50mph up to whatever speed I could get to with shaking my fillings loose, about 65. I tried lifting off the throttle, no difference, I tried putting the car into neutral, no difference. It was almost as if the hard braking started it off again, before I did the brake test it was fine.

Just read this after posting above. You have a strange problem that a competent mechanic should look at. Good luck with finding one! Oh, and Good Luck - keep us informed please.

p.s. you have checked the wheel nuts of course?

[tvrash]

I do see what you are saying but an unbalanced wheel wouldn't cause the brake problem and why would it be fine to 75 until I brake hard then the problem comes back ?
Yes I have had both wheels off and back on.

[spudgun GB]

I guess you could try moving wheels front to back, to see if the problem moves. This would at least eliminate the wheels and tyres as the cause.

[tvrash]

It won't hurt to rotate the tyres anyway but it just can't be an unbalanced wheel as far as I can tell.

[motco]

tvrash said:

It won't hurt to rotate the tyres anyway but it just can't be an unbalanced wheel as far as I can tell.

I am now inclined to agree unless the wheel nuts are loose and the wheel shifts off kilter when you brake. I really cannot imagine what can cause a fault to show only after hard braking and to persist afterwards too. Unless...

Perhaps the calipers are seizing and the pads remain in hard contact with the disc(s) after you've stood on the pedal. Temperature of the wheels' centres after a run should be your guide there. Mind, it might be VERY hot!

Was this a private purchase or can you throw it back at the seller to rectify?

Edit: A quick search of the Jag forum using 'driveshaft' as a search term revealed this:-
Jag forum

Edited by motco on Tuesday 20th December 16:29