mpg claims

[Simpo Two]

I know that official mpg figures are works of fiction but how does this work out?

Lookng through adverts for XFs on Autotrader I see that the early ones (2.7 engine) are quoted:

Urban 27.1 mpg
Extra Urban 48.5 mpg
Average 37.6 mpg


For the 3.0D we have:

Urban 29.7 mpg
Extra Urban 51.4 mpg
Average 41.5 mpg

The bigger engine is more economical - woot! So I bought one.

And yet in practice the 3.0D XF returns the same or slightly worse than the 2.7d S-Type it replaced - 38.5mph. The driver and the roads are the same. So has the way they measure mpg changed to are Jaguar bending the rules more? Is the 3.0 engine just a bored out 2.7?


ETA: And the 2013 model claims 47.0 mpg average! - is this because it has 'start/stop'?

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 21st November 12:02

[fatboy b]

Mine used to average 38. On a gentle run I used to get low 50s.

[Simpo Two]

Having spoken to a clever bod today, the mpg figures bear increasingly little connection with reality as they are worked out from a specific test (like emissions) and the engines are mapped to be perfect exactly for the test. Apparently 'start stop' is worth +3 mpg even if it isn't... ie smoke and mirrors.

[fatboy b]

The XF is a great car with a well sorted chassis. I think it's so good, that I've bought an RS after 11 years in diesels over a new shape XFS. Enjoy the car. Put fuel in when it needs it.

[Simpo Two]

fatboy b said:

The XF is a great car with a well sorted chassis. I think it's so good, that I've bought an RS after 11 years in diesels over a new shape XFS. Enjoy the car. Put fuel in when it needs it.

Indeed, I was just interested to know how, as the engines got bigger and more powerful, they got more economical. Fact is, they don't. Once you know the truth it's fine.

The illusion of it being slow after a 2.7D S-Type is down to the way the pedal travel and cruise control are mapped. The suspension is XF suspension - no remapping can improve that.

[fatboy b]

XF suspension is still better than anything in the same market coming out of Germany.

[Simpo Two]

fatboy b said:

XF suspension is still better than anything in the same market coming out of Germany.

Possibly but I understand some Jaguar board members are ex-BMW and all the top marques are combining into one Euro pinch-n-zoom splurge, so soon they will all be the same. Well apart from the logo. I can no longer find a car I really want, it's a question of choosing the least worst of the rest. At present the XF is the least worst. Does it drive or sound like a Jaguar? Nope.

[fatboy b]

Simpo Two said:

fatboy b said:

XF suspension is still better than anything in the same market coming out of Germany.

Possibly but I understand some Jaguar board members are ex-BMW and all the top marques are combining into one Euro pinch-n-zoom splurge, so soon they will all be the same. Well apart from the logo. I can no longer find a car I really want, it's a question of choosing the least worst of the rest. At present the XF is the least worst. Does it drive or sound like a Jaguar? Nope.

I'm guessing you're advancing in years. Jaguar's problem used to be that their clientele was dying off. The XF was the first car to reverse that trend. It has a better chassis than anything german. It rides and handles bloody well for a car of it's weight, and in fact hides much of it's weight thanks to the chassis. Seems you're into the old wafty Jaguar ride rather than decent handling.

[Simpo Two]

It's true, I'm not 25. But what is the Chairman of the Board supposed to drive these days this side of a Bentley? If I want a racing car I'll buy my TVR back, or get an M5 or an Aston and rag the nuts off it. Been there, done that.

Do 25-year-olds sit on a stack of pallets to patch TV, or sleep on bricks? Nope. So why drive on them? The roads are far more undriveable than they were when I was 25. They are in shocking condition, most of them have 30 limits and there are scamera vans every 100 yards. So any fanciful idea of 'sport' has been killed off.

I have no problem with Jaguar expanding their product range to appeal to more people. I wish they had a range even half the size of Mercedes or BMW. Where's the small car, the 4-seat convertible, the fantastic concept cars they play with but never build because a 4-pot diesel pleases the accountants? It's made of black plastic, but stick a Leaper on the back and presto, it's a Jaguar.

As Jaguar throw away all the things that made a Jaguar different from the rest, you may as well buy something else. I can understand people who are coming from BMW or Audi thinking 'Cor, this Jaguar is cool because it's like a BMW or Audi so now I can have the black plastic I'm used to and get round the Ring in 9 mins and have a Jaguar logo too' - but there is more to life than that. I really do wonder how much of Jaguar now is just badge marketing.

I am still - just - loyal to Jaguar but came very close to buying a Mercedes. The shapes of Mercs are amazing - but they have black plastic interiors. But the new XF is all black plastic inside too, which only leaves the Leaper on the boot.

And I was just thinking of how my S-Type drove, and how the XF drives, and the XF by comparison is a donkey. Sorry Jaguar newbies but that's how I feel

[babelfish]

Simpo Two said:

But the new XF is all black plastic inside too, which only leaves the Leaper on the boot)

I have a 2014 XF 3.0 R-Sport Sportbrake and really like it, not as much as my previous 2010 XKR coupe (needed the extra space!!), but a really nice place to be and drive.

I had a new XF as a courtesy car and really disliked it. Cheap plastics & restricted vision were the main things.

Those issues and the lack of an estate version will have me looking else where when it comes to the time to change.

[The Leaper]

Jaguar announced recently that they will be making a sportbrake model of the latest edition of the XF.

R.

[fatboy b]

Simpo Two said:

It's true, I'm not 25. But what is the Chairman of the Board supposed to drive these days this side of a Bentley? If I want a racing car I'll buy my TVR back, or get an M5 or an Aston and rag the nuts off it. Been there, done that.

Do 25-year-olds sit on a stack of pallets to patch TV, or sleep on bricks? Nope. So why drive on them? The roads are far more undriveable than they were when I was 25. They are in shocking condition, most of them have 30 limits and there are scamera vans every 100 yards. So any fanciful idea of 'sport' has been killed off.

I have no problem with Jaguar expanding their product range to appeal to more people. I wish they had a range even half the size of Mercedes or BMW. Where's the small car, the 4-seat convertible, the fantastic concept cars they play with but never build because a 4-pot diesel pleases the accountants? It's made of black plastic, but stick a Leaper on the back and presto, it's a Jaguar.

As Jaguar throw away all the things that made a Jaguar different from the rest, you may as well buy something else. I can understand people who are coming from BMW or Audi thinking 'Cor, this Jaguar is cool because it's like a BMW or Audi so now I can have the black plastic I'm used to and get round the Ring in 9 mins and have a Jaguar logo too' - but there is more to life than that. I really do wonder how much of Jaguar now is just badge marketing.

I am still - just - loyal to Jaguar but came very close to buying a Mercedes. The shapes of Mercs are amazing - but they have black plastic interiors. But the new XF is all black plastic inside too, which only leaves the Leaper on the boot.

And I was just thinking of how my S-Type drove, and how the XF drives, and the XF by comparison is a donkey. Sorry Jaguar newbies but that's how I feel

I agree that Jaguar are throwing away much of what makes Jaguar different, but I do prefer the ride and handling over BMW & Audi. And that counts for the new XF too. Still a class leader.

[anonymous-user]

I drive a 530 with full adaptive at the moment and I too look for a good ride quality over taut handling or whatever the XF is supposed to offer. I've never actually driven or been in an XF actually. My dealer was reluctant to provide a decently specced test car so I didn't bother. The BMW rides well in its soft setting, runflats and all IMO.

For me, a car of a this size needs to ride effortlessly and comfortably above all else. I have other cars for sporty occasions and cars of this size aren't truly ever going to be truly sporting IMO.

I recently had a new E350 for a day or two and was very impressed. Very quiet, comfortable, well equipped and competitively priced. Just as important for me a dealer who seemed to want customers!

I'll try a Jaguar when I change, assuming the dealer is wants to do business but my priority will still be ride comfort for this car.

As for fuel consumption, I find I can get close to manufacturers' figures over short periods with a lot of care so don't doubt that they can get them under test conditions. Under normal driving, rarely rushing about, I'm usually 4/5 mpg lower than official. I've always assumed official figures to be no more than useful as a comparison between models.

[Jaguar steve]

Simpo Two said:

It's true, I'm not 25. But what is the Chairman of the Board supposed to drive these days this side of a Bentley? If I want a racing car I'll buy my TVR back, or get an M5 or an Aston and rag the nuts off it. Been there, done that.

Do 25-year-olds sit on a stack of pallets to patch TV, or sleep on bricks? Nope. So why drive on them? The roads are far more undriveable than they were when I was 25. They are in shocking condition, most of them have 30 limits and there are scamera vans every 100 yards. So any fanciful idea of 'sport' has been killed off.

I have no problem with Jaguar expanding their product range to appeal to more people. I wish they had a range even half the size of Mercedes or BMW. Where's the small car, the 4-seat convertible, the fantastic concept cars they play with but never build because a 4-pot diesel pleases the accountants? It's made of black plastic, but stick a Leaper on the back and presto, it's a Jaguar.

As Jaguar throw away all the things that made a Jaguar different from the rest, you may as well buy something else. I can understand people who are coming from BMW or Audi thinking 'Cor, this Jaguar is cool because it's like a BMW or Audi so now I can have the black plastic I'm used to and get round the Ring in 9 mins and have a Jaguar logo too' - but there is more to life than that. I really do wonder how much of Jaguar now is just badge marketing.

I am still - just - loyal to Jaguar but came very close to buying a Mercedes. The shapes of Mercs are amazing - but they have black plastic interiors. But the new XF is all black plastic inside too, which only leaves the Leaper on the boot.

And I was just thinking of how my S-Type drove, and how the XF drives, and the XF by comparison is a donkey. Sorry Jaguar newbies but that's how I feel

You've been in my head again haven't you Simpo? Apart of course from the Mercedes bit that is, as I'm pretty sure there's no lusting after that particular marque in there.

Ride quality dominates all other considerations for me so there's pretty fair odds my squishy and wallowy old XJ8 will probably be my last ever Jaguar. Nothing in the current range appeals for several reasons and I really can't be arsed anymore with the faffing and fiddling and fussing that a classic demands so that's it. When this one dies it's all over.

I'm kinda thinking something like a big automatic Citroen with an even bigger warranty is probably the way forwards.

[jamieduff1981]

Simpo Two said:

It's true, I'm not 25. But what is the Chairman of the Board supposed to drive these days this side of a Bentley? If I want a racing car I'll buy my TVR back, or get an M5 or an Aston and rag the nuts off it. Been there, done that.

Do 25-year-olds sit on a stack of pallets to patch TV, or sleep on bricks? Nope. So why drive on them? The roads are far more undriveable than they were when I was 25. They are in shocking condition, most of them have 30 limits and there are scamera vans every 100 yards. So any fanciful idea of 'sport' has been killed off.

I have no problem with Jaguar expanding their product range to appeal to more people. I wish they had a range even half the size of Mercedes or BMW. Where's the small car, the 4-seat convertible, the fantastic concept cars they play with but never build because a 4-pot diesel pleases the accountants? It's made of black plastic, but stick a Leaper on the back and presto, it's a Jaguar.

As Jaguar throw away all the things that made a Jaguar different from the rest, you may as well buy something else. I can understand people who are coming from BMW or Audi thinking 'Cor, this Jaguar is cool because it's like a BMW or Audi so now I can have the black plastic I'm used to and get round the Ring in 9 mins and have a Jaguar logo too' - but there is more to life than that. I really do wonder how much of Jaguar now is just badge marketing.

I am still - just - loyal to Jaguar but came very close to buying a Mercedes. The shapes of Mercs are amazing - but they have black plastic interiors. But the new XF is all black plastic inside too, which only leaves the Leaper on the boot.

And I was just thinking of how my S-Type drove, and how the XF drives, and the XF by comparison is a donkey. Sorry Jaguar newbies but that's how I feel

I'm 35 and also have an XFR-S. I've put around 28,000 miles on it from new. I owned a 2005 S-Type from 2009 until Sunday. The ride quality isn't/wasn't really any different, but the taughtness of the R-S suspension set up (excepting the front uprights, it's the same set of components used on X202 S-Type and X250 XF suspensions. R-S got a limited slip differential and the F-Type's steering rack).

I've had 4 Jags in total, and as I've got a little older, the Jags I've chosen have consciously been less old-manish. My first had a cream interior and jelly suspension. My latest is black inside and has an amazing poise and balance.

The reality is that virtually nobody wanted to buy the old-man cars Jaguar used to make, and they lurged from one financial crisis to the next waiting for someone to cash in his pension and buy another 3-box shaped XJ.

Spec a modern Jag with small wheels and high profile tyres and it still rides better than all the competition. It probably is safe to say though that Jaguar's days of putting big petrol engines into cars that don't go round corners properly are long gone, so the only ones that will get the big engines will also be the ones which handle well. The market for that is as close to non-existant as to spell financial suicide for any car manufacturer who wants to stay in business.

[Rockmonkey]

If you want improved mpg then get a good remap.
My 3.0d (240bhp) was averaging 32mpg as standard. I had a remap from Celtic Tuning purely because I wanted extra power. The extra fuel economy was a nice bonus, it's now averaging 38mpg with mid forties possible.
With 307bhp it goes like a furious weasel. It now pulls hard right up to very illegal speeds and I've been told it does an indicated 165mph by someone else with the same map.