Considering an XKR...
Discussion
... but I have my reservations, so I was wondering if some kind chaps (or chapesses) could help out.
Background: I'm coming from TVR ownership - most recently a Tuscan S, and before that a Cerbera, but I'm wanting to tighten the financial belt in the short term, and an XKR seems like a sound option.
Now, for the questions...
1. Jags are notorious for depreciation (as I'm sure you all know all too well). What's the consensus on, say, what a 2000 XKR will depreciate to over 12/18/24 months, assuming it costs £20-25k now (I will hunt till I find a good one at this price!). I'm working on the assumption of around £2000 per year (if bought and sold privately at decent prices). Does that sound about right?
2. I'm concerned it won't be fast enough. I know there's the Paramount stuff that can be done... has anyone had any ofthis work carried out? Can I be nosey and ask the costs? They seem to claim 30BHP or so from the ECU upgrade and 20BHP or so for the full exhaust job... does that seem about right in anyones experience? (I think about a 50BHP hike would be almost enough for now)
3. Suspension. If I got one, I'd be wanting to take it across Europe - and not just on Autobahns, etc. I'm talking up mountain passes. I'm more than a little worried that the car won't appreciate my "enthusiastic" driving style, won't be communicative enough, etc. And this is something most dealers/private sellers would be horrified at me trying out on a test drive! So, any thoughts on the Eibach upgrades? Or the standard handling of an XKR? Any comparative experience of how sure-footed car is after all that's done? (And again, costs?)
4. Soft top. I'm really undecided over whether I want a convertible or not. My heart says yes, my head says no. Do they leak? At all? Honestly? And break?
5. What would anyone say the "average" running costs were for a year? The rule of thumb with Cerberas and Tuscans was always "budget £3k and some years you'll get off lightly". Is there something similar in XK ownership?
Thanks, all. I'll no doubt be owing some people beers following the slew of questions I'll need answering whilst trying to make my mind up.
Background: I'm coming from TVR ownership - most recently a Tuscan S, and before that a Cerbera, but I'm wanting to tighten the financial belt in the short term, and an XKR seems like a sound option.
Now, for the questions...
1. Jags are notorious for depreciation (as I'm sure you all know all too well). What's the consensus on, say, what a 2000 XKR will depreciate to over 12/18/24 months, assuming it costs £20-25k now (I will hunt till I find a good one at this price!). I'm working on the assumption of around £2000 per year (if bought and sold privately at decent prices). Does that sound about right?
2. I'm concerned it won't be fast enough. I know there's the Paramount stuff that can be done... has anyone had any ofthis work carried out? Can I be nosey and ask the costs? They seem to claim 30BHP or so from the ECU upgrade and 20BHP or so for the full exhaust job... does that seem about right in anyones experience? (I think about a 50BHP hike would be almost enough for now)
3. Suspension. If I got one, I'd be wanting to take it across Europe - and not just on Autobahns, etc. I'm talking up mountain passes. I'm more than a little worried that the car won't appreciate my "enthusiastic" driving style, won't be communicative enough, etc. And this is something most dealers/private sellers would be horrified at me trying out on a test drive! So, any thoughts on the Eibach upgrades? Or the standard handling of an XKR? Any comparative experience of how sure-footed car is after all that's done? (And again, costs?)
4. Soft top. I'm really undecided over whether I want a convertible or not. My heart says yes, my head says no. Do they leak? At all? Honestly? And break?
5. What would anyone say the "average" running costs were for a year? The rule of thumb with Cerberas and Tuscans was always "budget £3k and some years you'll get off lightly". Is there something similar in XK ownership?
Thanks, all. I'll no doubt be owing some people beers following the slew of questions I'll need answering whilst trying to make my mind up.
Hi James.....let me be the first of, no doubt, many replies to this. Firstly my last car was similar to yours in that I had a Marcos and I was wondering re the lack of performance with the Jag. All I can say is that on paper, yes, the Jag is slower, but in the real world, I find that it's actually quicker as the instant "GO" of the supercharger is quite amazing and the fact that it's an auto and with kickdown it really is quick. As for depreciation, I suspect that you wont be losing very much at all at that age. Jags only depreciate rapidly in the first couple of years, after that the rate of drop really slows down. As for upgrades, Racing Green cars in Hampshire should definately be your first port of call - ask for Chas and have your credit card handy as the moment you see and hear their demo car, you'll want to spend money!!!!!!! Next, the roof. I can honestly say that compared with the Marcos roof (which is probably similar to the TVR roof) it's in a different class and it does not leak AT ALL not even after being jet washed directly at the roof and seals. It is also really quiet and civilised and when you have the hood up it is almost (and I mean really, really close) to being in a coupe - it really is that good and well made and heavily lined and soundproofed. I really am impressed with the car - it's quick and a bit more discreet and yet can handle and perform like a good 'un. At around year 2000, the main problem to look out for is the "Nikasil" bore linings - it would be better to look for a post 2000 or one which has had a replacement engine under warranty. Have a trawl through this link http://forums1.roadfly.org/jaguar/forums/xk8/ (Hope it works as a link). There are LOADS of postings re how to buy/ what to look for and Nikasil and tensioner problems. Happy hunting and when you drive one in anger, you'll want one . DEFINATELY. edited to add link to Racing Green Cars here www.racinggreencars.com
>> Edited by jonscz on Monday 28th February 11:14
>> Edited by jonscz on Monday 28th February 11:14
J_S_G said:
... but I have my reservations, so I was wondering if some kind chaps (or chapesses) could help out.
Background: I'm coming from TVR ownership - most recently a Tuscan S, and before that a Cerbera, but I'm wanting to tighten the financial belt in the short term, and an XKR seems like a sound option.
Now, for the questions...
1. Jags are notorious for depreciation (as I'm sure you all know all too well). What's the consensus on, say, what a 2000 XKR will depreciate to over 12/18/24 months, assuming it costs £20-25k now (I will hunt till I find a good one at this price!). I'm working on the assumption of around £2000 per year (if bought and sold privately at decent prices). Does that sound about right?
2. I'm concerned it won't be fast enough. I know there's the Paramount stuff that can be done... has anyone had any ofthis work carried out? Can I be nosey and ask the costs? They seem to claim 30BHP or so from the ECU upgrade and 20BHP or so for the full exhaust job... does that seem about right in anyones experience? (I think about a 50BHP hike would be almost enough for now)
3. Suspension. If I got one, I'd be wanting to take it across Europe - and not just on Autobahns, etc. I'm talking up mountain passes. I'm more than a little worried that the car won't appreciate my "enthusiastic" driving style, won't be communicative enough, etc. And this is something most dealers/private sellers would be horrified at me trying out on a test drive! So, any thoughts on the Eibach upgrades? Or the standard handling of an XKR? Any comparative experience of how sure-footed car is after all that's done? (And again, costs?)
4. Soft top. I'm really undecided over whether I want a convertible or not. My heart says yes, my head says no. Do they leak? At all? Honestly? And break?
5. What would anyone say the "average" running costs were for a year? The rule of thumb with Cerberas and Tuscans was always "budget £3k and some years you'll get off lightly". Is there something similar in XK ownership?
Thanks, all. I'll no doubt be owing some people beers following the slew of questions I'll need answering whilst trying to make my mind up.
1) About right. All cars lose money, the Jags are no exception. They lose alot in the early days mainly due VAT, but if you are looking at a 2000 model then they start to plateux at around £20-25k. I would look for a 2001 and newer after a few cosmetic tweaks had been done. It will also depend on what you get. As with any XKR make sure you get the 20inch wheels and brembo brakes. A colour which will sell (red
) as well as all the toys inside which are too numerous to mention. But b black/blue with cream leather and walnut is a popular combo.
2) It ain't a TVR, but mine goes like stink, the only way for you to know is to go to a Jag dealer and take one for a spin.................
As for the performance upgrades I don't think you will notice them too much, but a Sports exhaust from Racing Green will add upto 30BHP and give you the noise you will prefer after the TVR. The 4.0ltr V8 gives you 370BHP, the 4.2ltr V8 (from 2002) gives 400BHP.
3) The XKR's come with CATS which firms up the shocks when you get sporty. Lowering the car will also help its looks and handling. Again Racing Green will point you in the right direction.
4) Your choice, I was concerned with scuttle shake and the roof when folded, but I would now be happy with either. Come summer I'll know my real decesion
5) Servicing ain't too bad, 1yr/12mnths.about £400. a set of 4 tyres on the 20's are £1k. I get average 20mpg, but I live in supercharge heaven all the tome
6) There is a 450BHP XKR, which has had the full paramount kit added if you want a ready made porsche slayer.......................
www.racecarnewmedia.co.uk/rgc/mpdetail.asp?VehicleID=318
G
Hi JSG,
Yea I had a similar dilemma - went from a much modified Z3M coupe to a modified Jag albeit an S- Type R after being sorely tempted by by the Sagaris. I too would recomend visiting Racing Green. Chas Whitaker there knows modded Jags inside out - he is effectively Mr Jaguar - and his g/f owns a Tuscan.
I had my Jag modified by RG and boy what a difference. MUCH more performance, better handling, a glorious exhaust noise, and the Arden wheels really look the business too. But do be sure that is actually the car you want before you modify though because you will struggle to recover the cost of the mods if you sell on early.
The modern Jags seem to be pretty robust too, there were well documented problems with Nikasil so make sure you either buy one that is outside of the time when they were made like that or has already had the engine done. Timing chain tensioners can need work on a high mileage car but that's about it for weaknesses.
You will probably not get the chuckability of a Tuscan with the XKR - but in moddified form you'll have a great luxury express that is close on performance. And you really HAVE to hear the RG exhausts !
Jags do depreciate but by buying wisely and at the right age it's not that bad.
Hope this helps,
Cheers & good luck,
LaurieB
Yea I had a similar dilemma - went from a much modified Z3M coupe to a modified Jag albeit an S- Type R after being sorely tempted by by the Sagaris. I too would recomend visiting Racing Green. Chas Whitaker there knows modded Jags inside out - he is effectively Mr Jaguar - and his g/f owns a Tuscan.
I had my Jag modified by RG and boy what a difference. MUCH more performance, better handling, a glorious exhaust noise, and the Arden wheels really look the business too. But do be sure that is actually the car you want before you modify though because you will struggle to recover the cost of the mods if you sell on early.
The modern Jags seem to be pretty robust too, there were well documented problems with Nikasil so make sure you either buy one that is outside of the time when they were made like that or has already had the engine done. Timing chain tensioners can need work on a high mileage car but that's about it for weaknesses.
You will probably not get the chuckability of a Tuscan with the XKR - but in moddified form you'll have a great luxury express that is close on performance. And you really HAVE to hear the RG exhausts !
Jags do depreciate but by buying wisely and at the right age it's not that bad.
Hope this helps,
Cheers & good luck,
LaurieB
Hi JSG
Different background in terms of previous car, but bought an XKR coupe a couple of weeks ago and absolutely love it. Only tend to drive it at the weekends; as if the Monday - Friday slog isn't bad enough, now the countdown to the weekend seems to take even longer!!
Previous posts on this forum proved very useful in terms of 'arming' myself with as many facts as possible.
Enjoy the test drives!!
Different background in terms of previous car, but bought an XKR coupe a couple of weeks ago and absolutely love it. Only tend to drive it at the weekends; as if the Monday - Friday slog isn't bad enough, now the countdown to the weekend seems to take even longer!!
Previous posts on this forum proved very useful in terms of 'arming' myself with as many facts as possible.
Enjoy the test drives!!
J_S_G said:
... but I have my reservations, so I was wondering if some kind chaps (or chapesses) could help out.
Let's see..
Can't see much belt tightening being done (except supercharger) when you take your xkr to RGC.
Your assumption of around £2000 per year loss of value seems fair.
30BHP or so from the ECU upgrade and 20BHP or so for the full exhaust job. All seems fair to me,I had a Paramount full system £1,700 all in. Fantastic!
I don't think any Xkr would be as good as a TVR for talking up mountain passes. These are big, heavy, automatic touring cars, at the very least you would want the paddle shift gears.
Convertible is even heavier, less rigid, and no matter how good the tops are, so much more engineering to go wrong.
If you get a good one, running costs will be less than TVR, hopefully only servicing costs, ocasional tyres and suspension bushes.
Go for 2001 or above
Best choice XKR 100 limited edition, or Silverstone limited edition. will become collectors cars.
Good luck,
John
>> Edited by John Millar on Monday 28th February 13:12
All,
Thanks so much for your input. Given me PLENTY to think about, that's for sure. Particularly worried about all those nikasil issues. Having just come from Planet TVR, where rumours (and actualities) of engine failures are rife, I was wanting nice, safe car ownership for a bit (from both an emotional and, equally importantly, financial stability point of view). A £1k bill on shocks, or a clutch, etc. is fine. But £7k engine bills are just silly.
Hmmmm. I really don't want to be put off, but I can see the spectre of something like this hanging over ownership a bit. So, the problem's definitely fixed from Sep 2000 on, right? Now, cars before that, what's the probability of a rebuild being required? 10%, 50%, 90%? Does it go down with how new the car is, on the assumption that it'll have had less exposure to petrol with sulphur in? I.e. a low mileage (<40k) 1999 car might be OK?
Then what about the timing chain tensioners? Is there a fix I can have done once-and-for-all to solve that problem? What kind of mileage are we normally talking about that becoming an issue at? Has that problem been fixed as of a certain date?
Finally (for now!)... warranties. Are there any good ones (Jag or aftermarket)? And if so, which? And, most importantly, are there any that'll cover the engine issues (given that they'd normally be written off as "wear and tear", I'm guessing.
Sorry for all the questions, guys, but beers are duly owed all round.
Thanks again!
Thanks so much for your input. Given me PLENTY to think about, that's for sure. Particularly worried about all those nikasil issues. Having just come from Planet TVR, where rumours (and actualities) of engine failures are rife, I was wanting nice, safe car ownership for a bit (from both an emotional and, equally importantly, financial stability point of view). A £1k bill on shocks, or a clutch, etc. is fine. But £7k engine bills are just silly.
Hmmmm. I really don't want to be put off, but I can see the spectre of something like this hanging over ownership a bit. So, the problem's definitely fixed from Sep 2000 on, right? Now, cars before that, what's the probability of a rebuild being required? 10%, 50%, 90%? Does it go down with how new the car is, on the assumption that it'll have had less exposure to petrol with sulphur in? I.e. a low mileage (<40k) 1999 car might be OK?
Then what about the timing chain tensioners? Is there a fix I can have done once-and-for-all to solve that problem? What kind of mileage are we normally talking about that becoming an issue at? Has that problem been fixed as of a certain date?
Finally (for now!)... warranties. Are there any good ones (Jag or aftermarket)? And if so, which? And, most importantly, are there any that'll cover the engine issues (given that they'd normally be written off as "wear and tear", I'm guessing.
Sorry for all the questions, guys, but beers are duly owed all round.
Thanks again!
J.S.G
I take it that you are ideally looking for an slightly older, less expensive XKR. Do abit of research to see what you would like to have as your XKR. Althought these cars have been out since 1996, they have continiously evolved. Todays XKR (2005) is about 170% different to the original. So make sure you know what an older model has or doesn't have as the case maybe. My big 'must have' apart form 20' wheels and brembo brakes, was the new Recaro seats for example, so went for an '02.
The nikasil problem does affect pre-2001 cars. But if you find your dream machine, you can get the relevant test (blow by) done to check for the engines condition and whether it needs to have a new engine. Jaguar are sympathetic to the problem and on the whole replace the unit at no cost. In actual fact the engine test are a must on any older car, but it is no way an issue that can't be overcome.
With regard to warranty, I bought form a main dealer, with full Jag warranty (hopefully piece of mind!)
It won't be like owning a TVR, put it that way.
G
I take it that you are ideally looking for an slightly older, less expensive XKR. Do abit of research to see what you would like to have as your XKR. Althought these cars have been out since 1996, they have continiously evolved. Todays XKR (2005) is about 170% different to the original. So make sure you know what an older model has or doesn't have as the case maybe. My big 'must have' apart form 20' wheels and brembo brakes, was the new Recaro seats for example, so went for an '02.
The nikasil problem does affect pre-2001 cars. But if you find your dream machine, you can get the relevant test (blow by) done to check for the engines condition and whether it needs to have a new engine. Jaguar are sympathetic to the problem and on the whole replace the unit at no cost. In actual fact the engine test are a must on any older car, but it is no way an issue that can't be overcome.
With regard to warranty, I bought form a main dealer, with full Jag warranty (hopefully piece of mind!)
It won't be like owning a TVR, put it that way.
G
triple7 said:
...
I take it that you are ideally looking for an slightly older, less expensive XKR
...
Cheers for all that - much appreciated. The actual cost of purchase isn't my main concern, more the lifetime costs... running costs, depreciation, what else I could have been doing with that money instead of having it tied up in a car (that's why I'm getting out of TVR ownership - lifetime costs are prohibitive for some other things I want to do). Ideally, I'd not like to go over £25k. But if an extra £5k or so up front would pop straight back out when it came time to sell, rather than losing it all to depreciation, then that's acceptable.
I calculated a bit ago that over 9 years of car ownership, I've lost zero to depreciation... half of my cars have appreciated by a few hundred pounds through shrewd purchasing, and half have lost just a few hundred pounds. I like that model, and it's one that would be great to stick to! I get the feeling that a £30k XKR is likely to lose £3k PA for the next 2 years, though.
Currently spotted these two that have caught my eye from a "value" angle through a quick scan of adverts (don't think I'd go for either, though):
http://users.autoexposure.co.uk/classicdd.cfm?Account=AETA67052&VehicleID=AETV529949&Photo=http://users.autoexposure.co.uk/is/remotemanaged/AETA67052/AETV529949_1a.jpg
www.mccarthycars.co.uk/jaguar/jaguar_61.htm
Very confused as to the second one's age, though. It's both a 2000 and a 2003 car by the look of it (wonder which half's which!?
). Are those the new style seats you mentioned? 
I'm also coming from a background of TVRs (Chimaera and Cerbera, and very very nearly a Tuscan), and with some of the same concerns as JSG has voiced. After dismissing purchasing a Tuscan/T350 for now, I've homed my choices down to the XKR / Maserati 3200, especially as I really need 4 seats (sprogs). The Maserati has fallen by the wayside recently after speaking to dealers and weighing up service costs, cost of warranty renewal and depreciation/possibility of selling on (almost none existent privately).
One major plus for me of the XKR is the cost, or lack of it, of servicing when compared to the TVR or Maser, even at main dealers. I've looked at a couple of cars at main dealers, but as usual they seem over priced. As its never worried me before buying cars privately, I'm thinking of going down this same route for the XKR. What are people opinion of this route, and is there such thing as a buyers guide - did EVO do one?
As JSG has already asked, what warranties are available? I would like to buy privately but purchase/renew a official Jaguar warranty - is this possible and how much? Also, what are peoples experiences of 3rd party warranties with Jaguar. From my TVR days I don't hold much weight by these.
After the perennial TVR concerns over the AJP in the early days, and more recently the S6, I'm very concerned about the stories of Nikasil issues, especially as I'm looking for a 1999/2000 model. From earlier postings, it seems that Jaguar will cover the cost of this issue on cars under 3 years old. Is this the same in peoples experiences with models this old (ie. 5 years or more) or those no longer under the Jaguar warranty? I know from bitter experience the lengths warranty companies/manufacturers go to wriggle out of claims, and would like think that Jaguar are a little more honourable? Or is this a dream?
JSG - as for the car (www.mccarthycars.co.uk/jaguar/jaguar_61.htm) - this looks most bizarre as it was registered in 2003, but manufactured in 2000?! I work not far from there and so may take a trip out at lunchtime and let you know.
Cheers,
Michael
One major plus for me of the XKR is the cost, or lack of it, of servicing when compared to the TVR or Maser, even at main dealers. I've looked at a couple of cars at main dealers, but as usual they seem over priced. As its never worried me before buying cars privately, I'm thinking of going down this same route for the XKR. What are people opinion of this route, and is there such thing as a buyers guide - did EVO do one?
As JSG has already asked, what warranties are available? I would like to buy privately but purchase/renew a official Jaguar warranty - is this possible and how much? Also, what are peoples experiences of 3rd party warranties with Jaguar. From my TVR days I don't hold much weight by these.
After the perennial TVR concerns over the AJP in the early days, and more recently the S6, I'm very concerned about the stories of Nikasil issues, especially as I'm looking for a 1999/2000 model. From earlier postings, it seems that Jaguar will cover the cost of this issue on cars under 3 years old. Is this the same in peoples experiences with models this old (ie. 5 years or more) or those no longer under the Jaguar warranty? I know from bitter experience the lengths warranty companies/manufacturers go to wriggle out of claims, and would like think that Jaguar are a little more honourable? Or is this a dream?
JSG - as for the car (www.mccarthycars.co.uk/jaguar/jaguar_61.htm) - this looks most bizarre as it was registered in 2003, but manufactured in 2000?! I work not far from there and so may take a trip out at lunchtime and let you know.
Cheers,
Michael
Hi JSG, £25,000 car, upgrades etc... cheaper to keep the Tuscan?
For serious belt tighteneing, how about a £2000 XJS and an awful lot of spare change to sort it out? Or a Porsche 928, late model (£6000) faster than the XKR and available in manual?
Sorry...
To answer your question, I had an early one (R-reg, 370 hp). Engine went at 47,000 miles, one polite phone call and it was replaced with no argument and a courtesy car by my nearest main dealer, in less than 2 weeks, even though that wasn't where I bought the (secondhand) car. That was 4 years ago, don't know if they are still so accomodating.
I did the opposite and bought a TVR, would never go back as the Jag felt tame by comparison, it was a good drivers car in its way, but much more muted. Never did like autoboxes either, yes the Jag's (Mercedes) box is a good one of the genre, but it's still not the same as actually having your right foot connected to the rear wheels.
I suppose I would consider the XKR a valid option as a high mileage business cruiser with a bit of ability, but otherwise ???
For serious belt tighteneing, how about a £2000 XJS and an awful lot of spare change to sort it out? Or a Porsche 928, late model (£6000) faster than the XKR and available in manual?
Sorry...
To answer your question, I had an early one (R-reg, 370 hp). Engine went at 47,000 miles, one polite phone call and it was replaced with no argument and a courtesy car by my nearest main dealer, in less than 2 weeks, even though that wasn't where I bought the (secondhand) car. That was 4 years ago, don't know if they are still so accomodating.
I did the opposite and bought a TVR, would never go back as the Jag felt tame by comparison, it was a good drivers car in its way, but much more muted. Never did like autoboxes either, yes the Jag's (Mercedes) box is a good one of the genre, but it's still not the same as actually having your right foot connected to the rear wheels.
I suppose I would consider the XKR a valid option as a high mileage business cruiser with a bit of ability, but otherwise ???
J_S_G said:
Currently spotted these two that have caught my eye from a "value" angle through a quick scan of adverts (don't think I'd go for either, though):
http://users.autoexposure.co.uk/is/remotemanaged/AETA67052/AETV529949_1a.jpg">http://users.autoexposure.co.uk/classicdd.cfm?Account=AETA67052&VehicleID=AETV529949&Photo=http://users.autoexposure.co.uk/is/remotemanaged/AETA67052/AETV529949_1a.jpg
www.mccarthycars.co.uk/jaguar/jaguar_61.htm
Very confused as to the second one's age, though. It's both a 2000 and a 2003 car by the look of it (wonder which half's which!?
The first one looks an absolute bargin, at that age and spec. That Jag has the 'Sport' interior. Which means it has the black dash and door tops and slightly different seats. Those seats are the 'new' Jag seats with side airbags and replaced the old Recaro's. My only disappointment with the Jag was how uncomfortable the seats were in such a luxury GT. Therefore I went for the new Recaro's
It doesn't have Satnav, which is a plus come resale. Also the exterior colour is Titanium, which you either like or you don't. There are far nicer Jag colours IMHO.
The second car is very strange. Unless it's sat in a garage unregistered for 3 years there is no way it is a '53 model car. It is pre-2nd face lift (change in interior seats, light clusters, front rear bumpers, exhausts etc etc.)
It took me 6 months to find the type of XKR I wanted. Then another 3 months trawling the web to find one (I too wanted to spend as little as possible due depreciation, but I had to compromise to get the 'type' of XKR I wanted.) I looked at 3 different ones in the end, my mine had high miles 37k on a 3 year old, but it drives sooo well and was in excellent shape. (the tend to have kerbed wheels, which can't be refurb and are £700 each!!!)
Keep the questions coming
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