Experience of a Jaguar Main dealer
Discussion
Sorry guys, posted this a few days ago in General Gassing section, never occured to me to post it here, which is probably more relevent. If you have already seen it, sorry for the repetition.
I want to tell you about my experience of using a Jaguar main dealer recently.
I have a 2007 Jaguar XKR Convertible. I love it. I am one of those lunatics who drive top down all year round, the only criteria is it’s not raining (or sleet, or snow etc.) Thus the roof gets used a lot.
It’s always worked perfectly up until about 2 weeks ago, when on a perfectly nice spring morning, I lowered the roof only to be met with the sound of creaking and imminently breaking plastic. I stopped the roof straight away and got out to have a look, The plastic cowling around the front and side of the roof interior seemed to be snagging on the roof frame and popping it out of its clips, then beginning to bend the plastic (not very much at all and not damaging it, as I stopped the operation) and causing a terrible noise. It was stopping the roof retracting and clearly something had changed since I last lowered the roof.
I got out and investigated but could not see any obvious reason for the sudden snagging. The roof still raised and engaged the front window rail perfectly, and all the sensors said it was closed and latched. So off I went to work. I internet researched as much as I could, but no luck. On the way back from work, I decided to call in at my local Jag dealer (name and location withheld) as this was not a local garage job, or even a specialists job. Great for the oily bits, but not for this, I figured. I wanted experience of the convertibles specifically.
I showed the service manager and mechanic the problem, demonstrating what was going on. It was at this point I noticed something. The roof frame has 2 locating lugs, one each side, about ¾ inch long, welded on part of the frame, that guides another part of the frame as the roof folds. They are not ‘connected’ as such, but the lug sits in a hole on the other part of the frame. Presumable to make sure everything stays aligned as the roof folds. The lug on the driver’s side had snapped off. It was still connected by paint, but no longer did its job. I looked on the other side, and that lug was also broken. Presumably the pressure of one failing had broken the other.
The mechanic and service manager both agreed they had never seen this happen before and that they would have a look at what could be done. I left the car with them and got a lift home in a dealer car. My assumption was that they would either look to re-weld some lugs in place, replace the lugs with some sort of bolt on arrangement, or maybe, at worst, replace the parts of the frame ( 2 bits of metal about 12” long each) that had the broken lugs with new ones. I assumed I may be looking at a bill of a couple of hundred pounds.
The next day I received a call from the service manager.
He said they had investigated the problem, and I would need a new roof. He told me the frame was cracked and bent, and that the cost was……..£7500.
Yes, 7500 pounds. I enquired about the cause of such a catastrophic failure. And why it was not obvious when we examined the car together. He said he didn’t know. Great.
Obviously this accounts for a significant portion of the value of the car, and I was somewhat upset. I asked if the car was drivable (i.e. did the roof still close and latch and would it be watertight) He said yes. I asked when I could pick the car up, as obviously they would have to re-assemble the roof before I could drive away. “Straight away” he said. “We did not dismantle the roof or remove the fabric”.
Hmmmm. How had they spotted the broken / bent frame then?
So off I went to pick the car up. At least they cleaned it for me. And charged me £158 for an hours labour. How much time does it take to ‘look’ at the roof? Especially as they clearly did not investigate very far.
So off I went home in my broken car. Roof up. In the sunshine. Fuming.
When I got home I decide to have a look myself. I open the roof partially, and had a good prod about. I could not find any broken frame parts (lugs excepted), nor did the frame appear bent in any way. The motor worked fine, the cables were all tight, the fabric in great condition (I treat it regularly), the glass all intact. The roof closed and latched fine. How was it broken and bent?
I then got 2 small 1” roofing bolts (3/8” inch wide and 1” long with the large round domed end) and popped them through the frame where the lugs had been (there was a hole left by the lugs breaking off to slot though). Using a rescue washer (oversized) and a locking nut, I created a suitable pivot point for the frame to align against. Both sides done, total cost about £1 from B&Q. Started the motor, held the button, roof folds perfectly. No catching, no snagging, no warnings, no undue noises. Woosh. Down it goes. Been working perfectly ever since. Up and down maybe 2 dozen times.
Dealer price £7500
My fix price £1
Money saved (excluding the money wasted on visiting the dealer) £7499.
Moral of the story? Main dealers are crap. They won’t fix anything. They are only interested in replacing. They charge a fortune for doing not a lot. They are a rip-off.
Not a great surprise I know, but thought I’d let you all know. Thanks for reading.
I want to tell you about my experience of using a Jaguar main dealer recently.
I have a 2007 Jaguar XKR Convertible. I love it. I am one of those lunatics who drive top down all year round, the only criteria is it’s not raining (or sleet, or snow etc.) Thus the roof gets used a lot.
It’s always worked perfectly up until about 2 weeks ago, when on a perfectly nice spring morning, I lowered the roof only to be met with the sound of creaking and imminently breaking plastic. I stopped the roof straight away and got out to have a look, The plastic cowling around the front and side of the roof interior seemed to be snagging on the roof frame and popping it out of its clips, then beginning to bend the plastic (not very much at all and not damaging it, as I stopped the operation) and causing a terrible noise. It was stopping the roof retracting and clearly something had changed since I last lowered the roof.
I got out and investigated but could not see any obvious reason for the sudden snagging. The roof still raised and engaged the front window rail perfectly, and all the sensors said it was closed and latched. So off I went to work. I internet researched as much as I could, but no luck. On the way back from work, I decided to call in at my local Jag dealer (name and location withheld) as this was not a local garage job, or even a specialists job. Great for the oily bits, but not for this, I figured. I wanted experience of the convertibles specifically.
I showed the service manager and mechanic the problem, demonstrating what was going on. It was at this point I noticed something. The roof frame has 2 locating lugs, one each side, about ¾ inch long, welded on part of the frame, that guides another part of the frame as the roof folds. They are not ‘connected’ as such, but the lug sits in a hole on the other part of the frame. Presumable to make sure everything stays aligned as the roof folds. The lug on the driver’s side had snapped off. It was still connected by paint, but no longer did its job. I looked on the other side, and that lug was also broken. Presumably the pressure of one failing had broken the other.
The mechanic and service manager both agreed they had never seen this happen before and that they would have a look at what could be done. I left the car with them and got a lift home in a dealer car. My assumption was that they would either look to re-weld some lugs in place, replace the lugs with some sort of bolt on arrangement, or maybe, at worst, replace the parts of the frame ( 2 bits of metal about 12” long each) that had the broken lugs with new ones. I assumed I may be looking at a bill of a couple of hundred pounds.
The next day I received a call from the service manager.
He said they had investigated the problem, and I would need a new roof. He told me the frame was cracked and bent, and that the cost was……..£7500.
Yes, 7500 pounds. I enquired about the cause of such a catastrophic failure. And why it was not obvious when we examined the car together. He said he didn’t know. Great.
Obviously this accounts for a significant portion of the value of the car, and I was somewhat upset. I asked if the car was drivable (i.e. did the roof still close and latch and would it be watertight) He said yes. I asked when I could pick the car up, as obviously they would have to re-assemble the roof before I could drive away. “Straight away” he said. “We did not dismantle the roof or remove the fabric”.
Hmmmm. How had they spotted the broken / bent frame then?
So off I went to pick the car up. At least they cleaned it for me. And charged me £158 for an hours labour. How much time does it take to ‘look’ at the roof? Especially as they clearly did not investigate very far.
So off I went home in my broken car. Roof up. In the sunshine. Fuming.
When I got home I decide to have a look myself. I open the roof partially, and had a good prod about. I could not find any broken frame parts (lugs excepted), nor did the frame appear bent in any way. The motor worked fine, the cables were all tight, the fabric in great condition (I treat it regularly), the glass all intact. The roof closed and latched fine. How was it broken and bent?
I then got 2 small 1” roofing bolts (3/8” inch wide and 1” long with the large round domed end) and popped them through the frame where the lugs had been (there was a hole left by the lugs breaking off to slot though). Using a rescue washer (oversized) and a locking nut, I created a suitable pivot point for the frame to align against. Both sides done, total cost about £1 from B&Q. Started the motor, held the button, roof folds perfectly. No catching, no snagging, no warnings, no undue noises. Woosh. Down it goes. Been working perfectly ever since. Up and down maybe 2 dozen times.
Dealer price £7500
My fix price £1
Money saved (excluding the money wasted on visiting the dealer) £7499.
Moral of the story? Main dealers are crap. They won’t fix anything. They are only interested in replacing. They charge a fortune for doing not a lot. They are a rip-off.
Not a great surprise I know, but thought I’d let you all know. Thanks for reading.
That is shocking
Sounds like it was a job they did not want or could not be bothered to investigate so simply looked up the price of a roof / frame plus labour to fit
If I was you I would be demanding the money back from the dealer whom you had paid to investigate - they clearly did not investigate so why should you pay
Sounds like it was a job they did not want or could not be bothered to investigate so simply looked up the price of a roof / frame plus labour to fit
If I was you I would be demanding the money back from the dealer whom you had paid to investigate - they clearly did not investigate so why should you pay
Great news on the fix. I would however be going back for at least a partial refund as it's clear that they probably haven't looked any further than when you were present and demonstrated the fault. Also their diagnosis has been misleading to say the least. I would certainly want a good proportion of your money back on principle. Worth a try and very well done !
bigfella70 said:
Great news on the fix. I would however be going back for at least a partial refund as it's clear that they probably haven't looked any further than when you were present and demonstrated the fault. Also their diagnosis has been misleading to say the least. I would certainly want a good proportion of your money back on principle. Worth a try and very well done !
I have always been a believer in the fact that garages have fitters these days who just CHANGE parts, sometimes randomly, in an attempt to cure a fault. Whereas in earlier times, garages had mechanics who REPAIRED faulty parts. It's not all their fault because nowadays many parts are sealed units or the individual spares are made unavailable by the manufacturers to increase their profit margins. In this instance though, the stealership has acted appallingly by quoting such a ridiculous price without even considering a repair. My money says that they won't care if you do confront them. They will just smile, shrug and move on to the next poor soul who ventures through the door.I had a similar case with my local JMD earlier this month on our XJ, after it's service I was supplied with a full health check report as usual, this time though I was given a list of faults regarding air con unit, bonnet release and a potential oil leak needed investigation, the estimate quote for the work was just shy of £5000!
Visit to my local jag specialist resulted in a number of very simple issues easily fixed along with an air con system drain, service and re-gas, total bill £227!!
My rule is that main dealers are fine for general fixed price service jobs and the like but for anything else I tend to stick to the specialist independents.
Visit to my local jag specialist resulted in a number of very simple issues easily fixed along with an air con system drain, service and re-gas, total bill £227!!
My rule is that main dealers are fine for general fixed price service jobs and the like but for anything else I tend to stick to the specialist independents.
Dealing with, particular Jaguar/Land-Rover, main dealers in the past I came to the conclusion that it pays off to talk to the mechanics about the situation at hand.
Left at default, they always restore the car to 'as sold when new' state. At least that was always the quote I got. When asked about alternatives, they so far tended to by quite helpful, once had a bill reduced from £2000 to £60 quid, for welding something back into place, rather then replacing the subframe it come off from.
I guess a substantial part of the Jaguar customers either have (extended) warranty or simply don't care.
Left at default, they always restore the car to 'as sold when new' state. At least that was always the quote I got. When asked about alternatives, they so far tended to by quite helpful, once had a bill reduced from £2000 to £60 quid, for welding something back into place, rather then replacing the subframe it come off from.
I guess a substantial part of the Jaguar customers either have (extended) warranty or simply don't care.
goddo said:
bigfella70 said:
Great news on the fix. I would however be going back for at least a partial refund as it's clear that they probably haven't looked any further than when you were present and demonstrated the fault. Also their diagnosis has been misleading to say the least. I would certainly want a good proportion of your money back on principle. Worth a try and very well done !
I have always been a believer in the fact that garages have fitters these days who just CHANGE parts, sometimes randomly, in an attempt to cure a fault. Whereas in earlier times, garages had mechanics who REPAIRED faulty parts. It's not all their fault because nowadays many parts are sealed units or the individual spares are made unavailable by the manufacturers to increase their profit margins. In this instance though, the stealership has acted appallingly by quoting such a ridiculous price without even considering a repair. My money says that they won't care if you do confront them. They will just smile, shrug and move on to the next poor soul who ventures through the door.There aren't many parts that can actually be repaired to as-new once broken. I'm not sure I can think of any component that can be unbroken, unless it's something you can re-weld or re-bond. Jaguar Land Rover will carry assemblies and units rather than have acres of shelves with catalogues and part numbers of individual components which make up assemblies.
Personally I'd do exactly as the OP has done, but there are those who would blow a gasket if a main dealer just put a couple of screws or bolts through a broken component. A main dealer has to repair cars to a factory quality as that's what people expect from a main dealer, unless they specifically ask for an alternative fix.
Where some dealers fail is in their flashy call centres and fronts of house where they believe keeping customers away from the people actually doing the work is a desirable thing. It works fine if just getting an annual service, but relying on a jobcard written at a shiny desk to communicate customer viewpoints and desires to a mechanic is never going to work, and the only sort of people who would think either work in corporate communications or marketing.
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Thursday 7th May 17:29
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