New caterham, a worthy competitor?
Discussion
Will let you know my thought's after seeing it in the flesh tomorrow.
First impressions are looking pretty favorable though, with a fair looking price for the the specification & the expectation of well resolved aero/ handling & grip from the Lola tie in.
It would be good to get some comparative lap time's to see how it compares to the established Radical's for outright pace.
I think it could well attract a pretty decent pool of driving talent for its race launch in 2012 if its done right, I'm quite excited about it to be honest!
First impressions are looking pretty favorable though, with a fair looking price for the the specification & the expectation of well resolved aero/ handling & grip from the Lola tie in.
It would be good to get some comparative lap time's to see how it compares to the established Radical's for outright pace.
I think it could well attract a pretty decent pool of driving talent for its race launch in 2012 if its done right, I'm quite excited about it to be honest!
I thought that too...
It's a nice enough alternative for the above reasons, but therein lies the problem. I wonder what it offers that's truly or sufficiently different to tempt folks out of their current Radicals/Junos/Jades etc and take a punt on one.
I actually think Caterham have lost their way a bit - a Seven will always have a home and a great following, but a number of outfits can justifiably lay claim to ground that 10/15 years ago was firmly theirs...
Ariel do a nice job of making a more modern interpretation of a minimalist road-going sportscar, Lotus do the more refined version. Radical seems to have the racing scene/staircase covered, and acknowledging Caterham have a cracking race series, so too do Seven alternatives like Westfield and Locost. The former are also now very very credible in their own right if it's Seven you want.
Don't get wrong, I'm sure they're in little danger of going bust, but they are no longer a differentiator in a niche market that was once their own...
It's a nice enough alternative for the above reasons, but therein lies the problem. I wonder what it offers that's truly or sufficiently different to tempt folks out of their current Radicals/Junos/Jades etc and take a punt on one.
I actually think Caterham have lost their way a bit - a Seven will always have a home and a great following, but a number of outfits can justifiably lay claim to ground that 10/15 years ago was firmly theirs...
Ariel do a nice job of making a more modern interpretation of a minimalist road-going sportscar, Lotus do the more refined version. Radical seems to have the racing scene/staircase covered, and acknowledging Caterham have a cracking race series, so too do Seven alternatives like Westfield and Locost. The former are also now very very credible in their own right if it's Seven you want.
Don't get wrong, I'm sure they're in little danger of going bust, but they are no longer a differentiator in a niche market that was once their own...
The grander plan is the corporate market. Like you say, it shouldn't be difficult to fill a few grids worldwide, you really want are a few clients buying 30 or 40 of them annually and repeatedly with a nice service/maintenance deal on top. Thats the corporate market, but again, it's finite until the next gig comes along, so you actually want to be running the corporate market, and Palmer has that nicely covered, so we return to my point about them not doing anything sufficiently different for the required number of folks to take a punt and make it profitable.
possibly one advantage they might have - is that their racing class/series will most likely be all in the same car/engine package tightly policed.. which from the outside looking in, is what they have with the multitude of seven series' they run currently..
Radical have a fantastic range of cars, which in some ways is natural given they have been around for ~ 14 years... but there are disadvantages to championships with multiple classes/cars... I'll not bring up the points issues again !!
pro's and con's - its nice with the radical series seeing different models racing against each other wheel to wheel.. but also nice for a series to be all the same for the ultimate and fair? competition..
Radical have a fantastic range of cars, which in some ways is natural given they have been around for ~ 14 years... but there are disadvantages to championships with multiple classes/cars... I'll not bring up the points issues again !!
pro's and con's - its nice with the radical series seeing different models racing against each other wheel to wheel.. but also nice for a series to be all the same for the ultimate and fair? competition..
Gixer has hit the nail on the head there. Whilst understanding the need to run multi classes in club cup to fill the grids up, I would much prefer it if we were all on an equal footing in the same model & spec of car, that way everyone knows where they are in relation to each other without the variable of different model's strengths & weaknesses coming into play & skewing the outlook.
I wish Caterham well, but's let not get too excited >
From what I could see, it was pretty much a buck and I doubt that financially it would make any sort of sense at that price coupled with those sort of production number projections.
Point taken about single model race series being the only true way of ultimately deciding/seeing who is the best driver, but best for the driver doesn't necessarily mean best for the spectator?; aren't one model racing series usually pretty boring for the spectator/ultimately usually pretty short-lived?
Besides, I quite enjoy(ed) watching DSL in a slow old PR6 stuff the majority of the SR3 RSs most all of the time
From what I could see, it was pretty much a buck and I doubt that financially it would make any sort of sense at that price coupled with those sort of production number projections.
Point taken about single model race series being the only true way of ultimately deciding/seeing who is the best driver, but best for the driver doesn't necessarily mean best for the spectator?; aren't one model racing series usually pretty boring for the spectator/ultimately usually pretty short-lived?
Besides, I quite enjoy(ed) watching DSL in a slow old PR6 stuff the majority of the SR3 RSs most all of the time
Agreed on the point about all being equal in one class - but that's the holy grail isn't it... I reckon there are only 4 or 5 nationally doing that successfully.
Currently there are too many championships all trying (and failing) to meaningfully differentiate themselves so that enough people take a punt with them. There isn't an availability issue if you look at the numbers of competitors, but there is a vicious circle that yet another series crops up with the vision of creating equality, people commit funds (or not) to something that has such a narrow eligibility that it doesn't work out, revert to start. You actually need either the clubs getting together to address the poroblem (unlikely) or a ballsy MSA intervention to stop the proliferation of all the tat that crops up year on year.
But I guess someone will ask to get back on topic now :-)
Currently there are too many championships all trying (and failing) to meaningfully differentiate themselves so that enough people take a punt with them. There isn't an availability issue if you look at the numbers of competitors, but there is a vicious circle that yet another series crops up with the vision of creating equality, people commit funds (or not) to something that has such a narrow eligibility that it doesn't work out, revert to start. You actually need either the clubs getting together to address the poroblem (unlikely) or a ballsy MSA intervention to stop the proliferation of all the tat that crops up year on year.
But I guess someone will ask to get back on topic now :-)
splitpin said:
I wish Caterham well, but's let not get too excited > (snip)
aren't one model racing series usually pretty boring for the spectator/ultimately usually pretty short-lived?
Splitpin, aren't 1 make series the most exciting? I've enjoied many an hour watching the Renault clios, VW ventos, Rover tomcat turbos, XR2, Fiesta Si, Ginetta G50, minis, and of course the Caterham 7 series and IMO 1 make products some of the closest and most exciting racing you can watch.aren't one model racing series usually pretty boring for the spectator/ultimately usually pretty short-lived?
I can see where you get short lived from though - most of the above ae tin tops, so the series moves withh the model changes (and manufacturor support) - so the older cars drop out of the limelight periodically. However, last time i was at meeting regularly (a few years ago I admit), there were packed grids for the likes of the ventos, XR2's, and the clios - just with much lower budgets than in their heyday.
PS - I'm still really looking forward to the inevitable first meeting of the new Caterham vs Radical vs Westie / jade / etc etc - there will be so much forum banter riding on it, no matter which side of the fence you're on, it will be very entertaining =)
Some Gump said:
PS - I'm still really looking forward to the inevitable first meeting of the new Caterham vs Radical vs Westie / jade / etc etc - there will be so much forum banter riding on it, no matter which side of the fence you're on, it will be very entertaining =)
Agreed. Banter probably not from the hardcore boys, more like from the folks who are dyed in the wool chaps driving various iterations of a donkeys year old design courtesy of Colin C i.e. those who wanted it to be more like a road car 
I've never heard anyone with a Radical knock a Speads/Jade/Stohr (a few of their drivers is quite another matter) - at the end of the day, we all like minded people who get their buzz from wings and splitters and such downforce things.The car itself looks interesting. Reading the spec and perusing Lola's site, it looks very much like a CN spec car with an ali monocoque and slightly more power. All good kit there and given Lola's expertise, I have no doubt it'll be pretty damned good out of the box. Interesting weight if they can get down to it. But overall the car looks tasty.
The team up with Caterham could be genius. As a tied up, tightly controlled, one-make series run by them it could prove a very desirable place for the Seven guys who want to move up to slicks 'n' wings, but want the same even grids. This gives them a logical step up and I think that it's an inspired partnership by the two companies in that respect.
I'm really interested to see how it works out.
The team up with Caterham could be genius. As a tied up, tightly controlled, one-make series run by them it could prove a very desirable place for the Seven guys who want to move up to slicks 'n' wings, but want the same even grids. This gives them a logical step up and I think that it's an inspired partnership by the two companies in that respect.
I'm really interested to see how it works out.
Edited by juansolo on Saturday 15th January 09:35
splitpin said:
Some Gump said:
PS - I'm still really looking forward to the inevitable first meeting of the new Caterham vs Radical vs Westie / jade / etc etc - there will be so much forum banter riding on it, no matter which side of the fence you're on, it will be very entertaining =)
Agreed. Banter probably not from the hardcore boys, more like from the folks who are dyed in the wool chaps driving various iterations of a donkeys year old design courtesy of Colin C i.e. those who wanted it to be more like a road car I've never heard anyone with a Radical knock a Speads/Jade/Stohr (a few of their drivers is quite another matter) - at the end of the day, we all like minded people who get their buzz from wings and splitters and such downforce things.
DaveK-S1 said:
splitpin said:
Some Gump said:
PS - I'm still really looking forward to the inevitable first meeting of the new Caterham vs Radical vs Westie / jade / etc etc - there will be so much forum banter riding on it, no matter which side of the fence you're on, it will be very entertaining =)
Agreed. Banter probably not from the hardcore boys, more like from the folks who are dyed in the wool chaps driving various iterations of a donkeys year old design courtesy of Colin C i.e. those who wanted it to be more like a road car I've never heard anyone with a Radical knock a Speads/Jade/Stohr (a few of their drivers is quite another matter) - at the end of the day, we all like minded people who get their buzz from wings and splitters and such downforce things.
I also hear that the person who built it for him knew what he was doing and made a decent job of it
It looks really good but seems to be an almost carbon copy of the current JS 51 Ligier CN car which was a very good car in the french V de V series last year that I raced my Juno in.
I think it will give everything ( currently in radicals stable ) bar the SR8 a good hiding but only time will tell.
Having lolas involvement, I know it will be a serious contender on any grid.
I think it will give everything ( currently in radicals stable ) bar the SR8 a good hiding but only time will tell.
Having lolas involvement, I know it will be a serious contender on any grid.
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