Discussion
help wanted,i use my 1100 clubbie for hillclimbing it is standard track setup,i have problems with getting heat into the oil can i bypass the oil cooler?doi need different plugs/oil/block off some of the rad?,i stuffed my jumper in the rad intake which helped but as soon as it was my turn out came the jumper and the water temp droped like a stone,ps can't get oil above 30 degrees.thanks in advance dave.
Getting oil and water up to working temperature for hillclimbs and sprints is a real problem. Engine builders will tell you that you shouldn't be pushing the engine if the oil is not at least 85c. For hillclimbs(at least in the UK)you simply don't need an oil cooler as the longest run should be less than 120 seconds including assembly/staging time at the start. Similarly with water temperatures you should go to the line with say 80c showing but if you have a large radiator that can be difficult to manage. Blank off half the water and oil radiators with a piece of cardboard if the air temperature is low. Obviously if you use the car for trackdays or circuit racing then you will need full oil and water cooling but if you don't, then take out the oil cooler altogether and swap the water radiator for a smaller one.
I'd definitely loose the oil cooler or at least tape it all up. For water it's a bit more difficult. Easiest is to tape it up too. Then if you are running too hot on the day, remove some tape. To warm up, you have to start ages before the off. Run the water up to temp, then switch off. Then up to temp again and off.
It's a complete pain frankly!
Bert
It's a complete pain frankly!
Bert
Best bet for hill climbing is to fit a laminova water / oil heat exchanger to get the oil temp up to at least 50c before leaving the line combined with taping off a suitable amount of the radiator. 50c is good to go for an aircraft engine & is what I have been using for years on race engines as min start temp, never let me down yet!
It's a pain up here in Scotland with the freezing cold as well but I've always managed to get things up to temp with cardboard taped over the oil cooler and radiator, then tearing chunks out as needed as things heat up when on the move. In fact I can get the two temps exactly to where I want them with this method. Obviously you'd just be looking to get it up to temp like this to begin with.
If I was doing hillclimb/sprints I'd be putting a smaller oil cooler in at least though, save weight as well
Dunc.
If I was doing hillclimb/sprints I'd be putting a smaller oil cooler in at least though, save weight as well
Dunc.
you should be able to get oil temp into the 'zone' in the paddock before your run ?
even for circuit racing, I tend to start and run engine till water is 80+ oil may be anywhere from 20-40.. but if you stop it.. then restart say 20-30+ mins later, water temps will be waaay down again, but oil will remain higher.. so another run up to 80 (water temp) ish.. will see oil temps of 50-60 plus..
This year i had a small fan fitted to my water rad - and when i hit 60 ish on water temp i hit the fan.. and left it until the oil catches up with the water.
Its fidly - but you'll get the hang of it... enjoy :-)
Mark
even for circuit racing, I tend to start and run engine till water is 80+ oil may be anywhere from 20-40.. but if you stop it.. then restart say 20-30+ mins later, water temps will be waaay down again, but oil will remain higher.. so another run up to 80 (water temp) ish.. will see oil temps of 50-60 plus..
This year i had a small fan fitted to my water rad - and when i hit 60 ish on water temp i hit the fan.. and left it until the oil catches up with the water.
Its fidly - but you'll get the hang of it... enjoy :-)
Mark
On a trackday car, I always have a Pacet type fan fitted to avoid worrying about the water temp skying if there's a red flag i.e. held in the pitlane for an unknown period; it also enables you to let the engine run for an indefinite period, so you can get the oil temp up to a decent level before you get moving.
A Pacet type fan is very light.
Incidentally, relative to Mark's email above, I use a thermostatic sensor set @ about 90 degrees; when it cuts in, even static it drops the temperature back to 85 degrees in about 60 seconds. There's no need to do any fiddling with that set-up.
A Pacet type fan is very light.
Incidentally, relative to Mark's email above, I use a thermostatic sensor set @ about 90 degrees; when it cuts in, even static it drops the temperature back to 85 degrees in about 60 seconds. There's no need to do any fiddling with that set-up.
Edited by splitpin on Thursday 6th January 22:21
I have used CR8E plugs instead of the normal CR9E plugs in my ZZR1100 Clubsport. The plug cuts we did on the rolling road on full power runs showed they (CR8Es) were running fine and will probably foul less than the CR9Es. The CR8Es run a little hotter than the CR9Es, mine used to foul the 9s quite often.
Martin
Martin
Edited by Martin B on Thursday 6th January 23:06
dsl2 said:
Best bet for hill climbing is to fit a laminova water / oil heat exchanger to get the oil temp up to at least 50c before leaving the line combined with taping off a suitable amount of the radiator. 50c is good to go for an aircraft engine & is what I have been using for years on race engines as min start temp, never let me down yet!
I agree!The problem is that the water heats up (and cools down) relatively quickly while the oil is much slower on both halves of the curve.
With a 'Busa, I run the standard water "radiator" but with no blanking off, no oil rad and an oil/water heat exchanger. I warm the engine in the paddock to get to around 80/60. This normally takes 2 warm-up sessions and the judicious use of the fan to keep water temp down while the oil catches up. Then, in the trip to the line I let the temps get up to 90/70 on a warm day but always keep to at least 80/60. Fan off at the start. Once the car is moving and the engine is running under load, the water soon drops back to 70ish while the oil rises to 90ish. As soon as the finish line is crossed, fan on for the "slow" run back to the Paddock. Shimples!
Sounds like a job for a fan to me .............. just a question of whether you want to DIY or let a thermostatic detector to do it for you.
[/quote]
I agree with you, a fan is the solution.
I'll add one before the next season.
I don't want to use a detector because i want to manage the electrical consumption.
In hillclimbing, you have to make a lot of start, and the race is not long enough to
refill the battery.
[/quote]
I agree with you, a fan is the solution.
I'll add one before the next season.
I don't want to use a detector because i want to manage the electrical consumption.
In hillclimbing, you have to make a lot of start, and the race is not long enough to
refill the battery.
Jackard said:
I don't want to use a detector because i want to manage the electrical consumption. In hillclimbing, you have to make a lot of start, and the race is not long enough to refill the battery.
Sounds good to me ............. that said, as one who likes to avoid wondering/worrying, I'd make sure I had an Anderson Jack/Plug on the side and a decent sized slave battery to take care of (or at the least back up) the big draw starting bit.splitpin said:
Dave
Correct in thinking (like I do) that 'LCM & DSL Jointly Agree & Recommend' means it transfers from your 'Might Do' column to 'Got To Do' column?
well as usual you guys are a fountain of knowledge,i have said this before someone needs to write a book with all your info,would be much better than a manual and yes it seems like it will have to be on the to do list when my card has had time to cool down,you know xmas and buying hanns,dave.Correct in thinking (like I do) that 'LCM & DSL Jointly Agree & Recommend' means it transfers from your 'Might Do' column to 'Got To Do' column?
doctordave said:
splitpin said:
Dave
Correct in thinking (like I do) that 'LCM & DSL Jointly Agree & Recommend' means it transfers from your 'Might Do' column to 'Got To Do' column?
well as usual you guys are a fountain of knowledge,i have said this before someone needs to write a book with all your info,would be much better than a manual and yes it seems like it will have to be on the to do list when my card has had time to cool down,you know xmas and buying hanns,dave.Correct in thinking (like I do) that 'LCM & DSL Jointly Agree & Recommend' means it transfers from your 'Might Do' column to 'Got To Do' column?
Or perhaps that's not funny for a bloke from Jersey....................
Jackard said:
Hi,
With my busa, in hillclimbing, i've no problem for the oil temp...
The problem is the Water temp, i've some difficulties to keep the temp under 100°c on the start lane.
I race in France, so perharps the water is fine than in England
Jean-Christophe, in England the water is fine.With my busa, in hillclimbing, i've no problem for the oil temp...
The problem is the Water temp, i've some difficulties to keep the temp under 100°c on the start lane.
I race in France, so perharps the water is fine than in England
But, in Scotland, the whisky is better.....................
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