Discussion
Still awaiting a couple of responses, but those ROC Members who confirmed interest will shortly be receiving an email update from Will. As (ignoring remnant Schroth GT Stock) it has to be either a Schroth Pro or a Stand 21 Hitec, whilst one will never be talking cheap, a most worthwhile saving seems on the cards; both the Hans itself and (if one is wanted) also the Hans Posts Helmet (including the new 2011 Snell ones) to go with it.
As they say, (much) better than a kick in the whatnots
As they say, (much) better than a kick in the whatnots
m3procar said:
Maybe someone would like to share some more info, which HANS would suit a Radical 30 degrees?
Any preferences towards Schroth or Stand21?
John
Yep, 30Deg, so that means a choice of two (darn it, the pricey ones!), Schroth's 'Pro' or Stand 21's 'Hi-Tec'.Any preferences towards Schroth or Stand21?
John
In the absence of input from anyone who is an existing user who has anything negative to say about either, simply buy on a combination of best price and supplier reputation?
At the risk of being shot down in flames, I thought all HANS devices are manufactured by HANS or at least they are all exactly the same design dont know if Shroth/Stand21 manufacture under licence though. The cheaper ones just use a different material. Have you considered buying from HANS direct in the USA, that is what we did and it was significantly cheaper.
Prices were checked out in the US and time shipping is factored in (aside from what do you do if there's a problem with it), the only available to ROC Members price that Will's achieved for the top of the range 30Deg Pro is better.
HANS (Head And Neck Support) was invented by an American (Dr Bob Hubbard) in the early 80s and was ignored for a long while. F1 showed a interest after Roland Ratzenberger's Basilar Skull Fracture Instant Death @ '94 San Marino GP, that absolutely dreadful weekend when we also lost Ayrton Senna. HANS is and remains an American company and Schroth and Stand 21 are their authorised sales and manufacturing licencees in Germany and France respectively ....... here in the UK, those two kind of compete.
HANS (Head And Neck Support) was invented by an American (Dr Bob Hubbard) in the early 80s and was ignored for a long while. F1 showed a interest after Roland Ratzenberger's Basilar Skull Fracture Instant Death @ '94 San Marino GP, that absolutely dreadful weekend when we also lost Ayrton Senna. HANS is and remains an American company and Schroth and Stand 21 are their authorised sales and manufacturing licencees in Germany and France respectively ....... here in the UK, those two kind of compete.
There are several problems with the HANS a few of which are listed below
1) It appears inappropriate for the MSA (and FIA) to proscribe a single commercial device rather than specify the required sfety limits and let others come up with a (perhaps cheaper or better) solution.
2) There is little or no actual evedence that they statistically reduce injury in real accidents. Where are the statistics on how may people in Speed or indeed racing event have been or could have been saved from the neck injuries that they are supposed to prevent?
3) The monoploy of construction is the main reason for the extotionate cost.
Don't get me wrong, I have been considering one, but unlike seatbelts and helmets for example there is no published evedence that the enormous cost provides any benefit.
1) It appears inappropriate for the MSA (and FIA) to proscribe a single commercial device rather than specify the required sfety limits and let others come up with a (perhaps cheaper or better) solution.
2) There is little or no actual evedence that they statistically reduce injury in real accidents. Where are the statistics on how may people in Speed or indeed racing event have been or could have been saved from the neck injuries that they are supposed to prevent?
3) The monoploy of construction is the main reason for the extotionate cost.
Don't get me wrong, I have been considering one, but unlike seatbelts and helmets for example there is no published evedence that the enormous cost provides any benefit.
As someone who believes that any available statistics can be made to prove anything, all I do is gather what information I can (Wiki/Test Footage etc etc), think it through and decide. My decision is that whilst it's tenable/not necessarily essential to go that way if competing one car on track at a time or simply trackdaying, if one is roundy roundy racing, not having it is quite simply, just not worth the risk. That it's at least double the price we think it should be is pretty well par for the course in most everything we buy in motorsport? If a Hans cost the same as a pair of tyres, wouldn't everyone use them? How much is a pair of tyres for a Radical?
SportsLibre said:
Half the cost of a Hans, and then there is the cost of the new Hans compatible belts and the new Helmet with Hans posts. So make that a quarter of the cost....
Maybe this eases the pain a touch?> Go to http://hansdevice.com/s.nl;jsessionid=0a010c491f43... and then click 'Anchor Install Instructions' ....... apparently 90% of their Customers roll their own ....... both off Hans US Website ....... you know what they say about "measure twice, cut once"?; make that "measure five times, drill once"? 
>Just received an email from Will @ ROC outlining savings ROC has made available solely to ROC Members - for those of us who can't recover VAT, not far off £170 isn't to be sniffed at.
Already got mine that way ............ and the retrofit posts which I'll tackle as and when the alcoholic 'ok let's tackle the turkey' haze completely wears off
If you haven't received it notwithstanding already being a ROC Member (I know Will is updating his database at the mo), ping me one and I'll happily FW it to you.
Happy Holidays!
Already got mine that way ............ and the retrofit posts which I'll tackle as and when the alcoholic 'ok let's tackle the turkey' haze completely wears off
If you haven't received it notwithstanding already being a ROC Member (I know Will is updating his database at the mo), ping me one and I'll happily FW it to you.
Happy Holidays!
Nothing to do with me.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/hans-device-pro-carbon-/1505...
I bought SWMBO a race suit from same person and got a real good deal. Given the products sold there must be a hidden connection which this outlet is fronting.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/hans-device-pro-carbon-/1505...
I bought SWMBO a race suit from same person and got a real good deal. Given the products sold there must be a hidden connection which this outlet is fronting.
SportsLibre said:
There are several problems with the HANS a few of which are listed below
1) It appears inappropriate for the MSA (and FIA) to proscribe a single commercial device rather than specify the required sfety limits and let others come up with a (perhaps cheaper or better) solution.
2) There is little or no actual evedence that they statistically reduce injury in real accidents. Where are the statistics on how may people in Speed or indeed racing event have been or could have been saved from the neck injuries that they are supposed to prevent?
3) The monoploy of construction is the main reason for the extotionate cost.
Don't get me wrong, I have been considering one, but unlike seatbelts and helmets for example there is no published evedence that the enormous cost provides any benefit.
Can't help having some sympathy with points 1&3, Angus ("this is surely a first in 1000 generations of hillclimbing" to adapt Glenys Kinnock), though do wonder whether you mean prescribe rather than proscribe!1) It appears inappropriate for the MSA (and FIA) to proscribe a single commercial device rather than specify the required sfety limits and let others come up with a (perhaps cheaper or better) solution.
2) There is little or no actual evedence that they statistically reduce injury in real accidents. Where are the statistics on how may people in Speed or indeed racing event have been or could have been saved from the neck injuries that they are supposed to prevent?
3) The monoploy of construction is the main reason for the extotionate cost.
Don't get me wrong, I have been considering one, but unlike seatbelts and helmets for example there is no published evedence that the enormous cost provides any benefit.
However, point 2 raises some interesting questions about testing and evaluation methods. Population studies would surely be questionable on grounds both of size (number of participants and number of crashes of relevence to the study) and comparability (the availability of like crashes - vehicle, velocity, angle of incidence, medium struck). This brings us then to controlled tests - crashing a car and driver with and without a HANS device into a controlled medium (concrete block wall) at varying speeds and angles then scanning the driver to determine the level of cervical spine damage. I am assuming here that if one has any faith in HANS at all then the driver would wear a HANS for the first round of tests and go without for the second! When the results were compiled (and the driver settled happily in his wheelchair) they would only hold for the physical chacteristics of that particular individual. Volunteers?
Probably the man to cast some light on the topic is Matt Hillam (of SB Westfield fame) as he earns his corn testing and evaluating systems of driver restraint. Post on Uphill Racers Angus?
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