Radical for Hillclimbing!!
Discussion
If I've gathered correctly, LCM's very successful Sprinting & Hillclimbing Prosport will shortly be becoming available - complete with hard-earned purpose developed specialist stuff like twin chain drive, one-off aero etc.
Perhaps worth PMing him?; although doubtless he'll be looking in from time to time.
Perhaps worth PMing him?; although doubtless he'll be looking in from time to time.
I don't like to self promote, but take my Busa engined radical is for sale at the moment. I have been campaigning it in the national sprint championship along with a few hillclimbs, drop me a mail if you want some advice or are interested in the car. Cheers
Simon simon.clemow [at] gmail.com
Simon simon.clemow [at] gmail.com
Wont go far wrong with a Prosport.
Simon's 1300 Busa Clubsport is a match for any 1300 Prosport and beat me more often than not this year in my ZX14 Clubsport.
LCM's Prosport is highly developed for Speed eventing and regularly trounced me in it's 1600 engine guise.
If you were to buy my multi-championship winning car, perhaps I could get LCM's
For tyres, there is currently no real competition for the hillclimb spec Avons (BMTR will advise), don't even think about running on even the softest circuit rubber
The tyres need to work from cold into the first corner, no warm up for the fronts.
I still run Crossplies as without modification I can't add enough camber for the (better?) Radials.
Simon's 1300 Busa Clubsport is a match for any 1300 Prosport and beat me more often than not this year in my ZX14 Clubsport.
LCM's Prosport is highly developed for Speed eventing and regularly trounced me in it's 1600 engine guise.
If you were to buy my multi-championship winning car, perhaps I could get LCM's
For tyres, there is currently no real competition for the hillclimb spec Avons (BMTR will advise), don't even think about running on even the softest circuit rubber
The tyres need to work from cold into the first corner, no warm up for the fronts.I still run Crossplies as without modification I can't add enough camber for the (better?) Radials.
Edited by SportsLibre on Wednesday 3rd November 19:46
Edited by SportsLibre on Wednesday 3rd November 19:48
Yep!
You're right, my Prosport is going up for sale as the new car is well on its way now.
If you don't know, it's got everything it needs and nothing it doesn't......................... All carbon body, highly developed aero, BIG brakes, Trickshifter, digital dash, data logging, custom suspension etc.
We've put a new 1440 Powertec in it and it's had less than 1 hour running. In case you think this is a bit of a pussy cat engine, it's a dream to drive, gives 10 RWHP more than my 1500 and on its only complete appearance at Loton in August equalled my best time last year with a full house 1600!
PM me if you want to talk before it hits the small ads!
You're right, my Prosport is going up for sale as the new car is well on its way now.
If you don't know, it's got everything it needs and nothing it doesn't......................... All carbon body, highly developed aero, BIG brakes, Trickshifter, digital dash, data logging, custom suspension etc.
We've put a new 1440 Powertec in it and it's had less than 1 hour running. In case you think this is a bit of a pussy cat engine, it's a dream to drive, gives 10 RWHP more than my 1500 and on its only complete appearance at Loton in August equalled my best time last year with a full house 1600!
PM me if you want to talk before it hits the small ads!
BertBert said:
Would I be right in thinking that the successful radical hilclimb cars have been somewhat developed into more specialist machines? Is that just what you need to do for hillclimbing? Or is it that the radical isn't a natural hill-machine? Being designed for circuit racing n all.
Bert
It's a bit like most tools: the general purpose item will do an OK job but a specialist one will do it better.Bert
If you think about what hillclimbs involve you can see that a standard Radical (of the right model) can do a pretty good job but a modified one can do it a bit better. Short (1-2km), narrow (12 feet is typical), steep, bumpy track with unforgiving terrain off the black stuff (think trees, ponds, rocks and drops into giant rhubarb), a mixture of slow, tight bends and fastish bits but rarely any true straights on which to relax, standing start, need to be on it 100% all the way, no time to warm tyres or brakes, limited opportunity to learn track (2 practice runs) about sums it up.
So what does that translate into?
Things you don't need - lights, air-jacks, fire extinguisher (personal choice), 50 litre fuel tank, dry break fuel system, oil cooler, reverse gear, full Radical wiring loom (have you weighed one?,) any non-essential mass.
Things that you do need - shift lights, hi-vis gear position indicator, good low speed downforce and live with the drag penalty, suspension set for Avon Radials (they need very little camber - bit like X-plies - and if you've got wishbones built for -4+ deg they will probably need modifying if you want a comfortable amount of rod-end shank left holding the wheels on), excellent location for the rear axle (I've found that the standard Clubsport/Prosport arrangement isn't up to the job with a decent engine), HD drive shafts, HD clutch, excellent brakes (probably not Wilwood then) with pads that work from cold (Hawke Black or Performance Friction PF01) and the bias adjuster moved out of the driver's reach (Blue Book), predictable handling with good turn-in and a neutral balance. Spring rates are a very touchy area - Angus likes them softer, I like them harder (even though it means that what's left of my brain gets emulsified with every run).
Which Radical models work best on the hills? My first choice is a Prosport (small, lightish, nimble, good handling, good downforce, built for a 'Busa, simple bodywork), then the Clubsport (just like a Prosport but with less downforce and a Kwakker instead of a 'Busa) and SR4 (bit heavier, question mark over torsional stifffness of the rear end, slightly fussy body, but 'Busa friendly). Anything else is too big, too heavy or in a dead class (over 2 litres).
Phew!
I deserve a Sunday lunchtime pint now...........................
splitpin said:
LCM said:
I deserve a Sunday lunchtime pint now...........................
Now, now, no skivving off to the boozer until yo've given us C&V on that clever aero malarky 
On which car to use, the PR06 looks like it might be good but being fairly new (expensive) I have not seen or heard of any being used yet.
BTW my car is still running the original 12 year old tube welded drive shafts, but I know one prosport that has gone through 3 HD ones this year!
SportsLibre said:
On which car to use, the PR06 looks like it might be good but being fairly new (expensive) I have not seen or heard of any being used yet.
BTW my car is still running the original 12 year old tube welded drive shafts, but I know one prosport that has gone through 3 HD ones this year!
Agree about the PR6 and probably only a question of time as prices are coming down. IMHO easily the most cost effective and manageable privateer outright competition orientated car that Radical make. In the world of roundy roundy (although it's the general concensus that the SR3 is now the faster of the two on most tracks) it's surprising how hard the 1500 SR3 RS's have to work to beat a humble 1340 PR6 .......... except when the PR6 is driven by Quaife Champ DSL who will usually disappear anyway/irrespective.BTW my car is still running the original 12 year old tube welded drive shafts, but I know one prosport that has gone through 3 HD ones this year!
Put the two alongside one another (with or without bodywork) and the extremely close resemblance is easily and immediately apparent. The PR6 has more aero and even greater torsional rigidity (and a fully central rather than slightly offset driving position that would help you uphill boyos?), but in the process it's gained a bit of extra weight ........ I'm sure you guys would soon work out where to shave that off.
On those TWDSs, it's funny how you'll suddenly strike lucky with one particularly durable set amongst something that is 'mass-produced' ....... guard them with your life ....... bit like my Dunlop footpump (I think it may be pre WW2
) ....... still going strong and pumping up tyres on Radicals. When it's tube finally perished, I bought a new twin chamber German made one from Halfords; that lasted about a year, unserviceable, so skipped, new hose for the antique, hey ho, away we go. Simon T said:
The PR6 is 100kg lighter than the SR3. What's the power to weight ratio of each?
S
Wow, on the basis that most Radicals seem to be heavier than claimed by the big R (and no two are apparently the same) and RWHP seems to be a matter of endless debate (and generally less than might be expected compared to the non RWHP figures claimed by the big R and of course, no two apparently same spec engines will ever be identical in terms of RWHP output), that's a tough one.S
Edited by Simon T on Sunday 7th November 15:18
My guessestimate (complete with my dodgy maths) is circa 355RWHP per ton for a 1340K8 in a PR6 and circa 340RWHP per ton for a 1475K8 in an SR3 RS ....... which is why the PR6 can still regularly give a downforce superior SR3 RS a seriously hard time on most tracks except ones with really fast bends or in the wet? I.e. the PR6 makes up for what it 'loses' in the fast bends by straightline pace, chuckability and manoeuvrability?
You of course see the differences/characteristics up close and personal and at full pelt all the time whereas I don't, so what do you reckon Simon?
OK, so let's chuck in a few, no bulls
t, facts.
All RWHP figures are on the same dyno; all vehicle weights (wet and fuelled) are on the same scales:
My Carbon Prosport with Powertec 1500 (1475) on carbs - 400 RWHP/tonne
My Carbon Prosport with Powertec 1440 (K7) on Suzuki TBs - 425 RWHP/tonne
My Carbon Prosport with Powertec 1600 (1585 ) on Suzuki BIG TBs - 466 RWHP/tonne
Interestingly, Big R offered me a deal on a DIY PR6 when they were just being launched. At the time, I couldn't see how PR6s complied with the hill climb regs, so declined the offer and went for a bare metal reconstruction of a used Prosport instead, confident that it met the regs for the mainstream Sports Libre Groups.
Subsequently, a conversation with Simon Durling in the paddock at Shelsley revealed that the totally delphic Blue Book Reg S 14.2.5 (in 2010 speak) meant that a PR6 is eligible for Sports Libre and also, very considerately, identified that if the MSA were to get arsey (though Simon is too much of a gentleman to use such Anglo-Saxon terminology) my Proport was also was also covered by S 14.2.5 rather than the mainstream Groups!
I can't speak for Angus, but suspect that the Good Doctor may be similarly afflicted and have his seat crossed by the longitudinal centre line of the car and so be part of a small (numerically) and select Group of S 14.2.5 cars.
Was that obscure enough for a Sunday night?
So, who else is now going to disclose their real RW power/weight ratios?
t, facts.All RWHP figures are on the same dyno; all vehicle weights (wet and fuelled) are on the same scales:
My Carbon Prosport with Powertec 1500 (1475) on carbs - 400 RWHP/tonne
My Carbon Prosport with Powertec 1440 (K7) on Suzuki TBs - 425 RWHP/tonne
My Carbon Prosport with Powertec 1600 (1585 ) on Suzuki BIG TBs - 466 RWHP/tonne
Interestingly, Big R offered me a deal on a DIY PR6 when they were just being launched. At the time, I couldn't see how PR6s complied with the hill climb regs, so declined the offer and went for a bare metal reconstruction of a used Prosport instead, confident that it met the regs for the mainstream Sports Libre Groups.
Subsequently, a conversation with Simon Durling in the paddock at Shelsley revealed that the totally delphic Blue Book Reg S 14.2.5 (in 2010 speak) meant that a PR6 is eligible for Sports Libre and also, very considerately, identified that if the MSA were to get arsey (though Simon is too much of a gentleman to use such Anglo-Saxon terminology) my Proport was also was also covered by S 14.2.5 rather than the mainstream Groups!
I can't speak for Angus, but suspect that the Good Doctor may be similarly afflicted
and have his seat crossed by the longitudinal centre line of the car and so be part of a small (numerically) and select Group of S 14.2.5 cars.Was that obscure enough for a Sunday night?
So, who else is now going to disclose their real RW power/weight ratios?
Yo Lindsay
Just to make sure my maths was/is as duff as I think, your wet and (teeny-bit?) fuelled Carbon Prosport with Powertec 1600 (1585 ) on Suzuki BIG TBs (466 RWHP/tonne) tipped the scales @ around 475 Kg?
Always surprises me how hard a bit more weight and a bit less power hits the power to weight on a lightweight - I've seen a late PR6 weighed in at 500Kg, to which I factored in a max 175 RWHP (slightly rounded down) taken from a 'standard' PT 1340 using the same dyno as your figures come from.
Just to make sure my maths was/is as duff as I think, your wet and (teeny-bit?) fuelled Carbon Prosport with Powertec 1600 (1585 ) on Suzuki BIG TBs (466 RWHP/tonne) tipped the scales @ around 475 Kg?
Always surprises me how hard a bit more weight and a bit less power hits the power to weight on a lightweight - I've seen a late PR6 weighed in at 500Kg, to which I factored in a max 175 RWHP (slightly rounded down) taken from a 'standard' PT 1340 using the same dyno as your figures come from.
14.2.5. Two seater Sports Racing Cars complying
with 14.2.2 but with the driver’s seat crossed by the
longitudinal centre line of the car and both seats
crossed by the same transversal plane.
Yep that has always been my understanding, and about 350RWHP per tonne.
with 14.2.2 but with the driver’s seat crossed by the
longitudinal centre line of the car and both seats
crossed by the same transversal plane.
Yep that has always been my understanding, and about 350RWHP per tonne.
Edited by SportsLibre on Sunday 7th November 22:14
Edited by SportsLibre on Sunday 7th November 23:54
Edited by SportsLibre on Monday 8th November 21:02
Gassing Station | Radical | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff