Discussion
Hello All,
I'm from Canada and have recently started to look into getting a sports racer and the Radicals are one of the ones I am considering. From what I have been able to gather, in North America the 1500 SR3 seems to be the car of choice with very few PR6s here mainly due to them being used mostly as a track day car. My interest stems from more of a competitive/performace bias and as such, I am interested more in the performance comparisions between a 1300cc PR6 vs. a 1500CC SR3 and a 1500CC PR6 vs. 1500CC SR3 as these are the models I am interest in.
With these cars having such a huge following in the UK, your input into this is much valued and appreciated...
TIA
Peter
I'm from Canada and have recently started to look into getting a sports racer and the Radicals are one of the ones I am considering. From what I have been able to gather, in North America the 1500 SR3 seems to be the car of choice with very few PR6s here mainly due to them being used mostly as a track day car. My interest stems from more of a competitive/performace bias and as such, I am interested more in the performance comparisions between a 1300cc PR6 vs. a 1500CC SR3 and a 1500CC PR6 vs. 1500CC SR3 as these are the models I am interest in.
With these cars having such a huge following in the UK, your input into this is much valued and appreciated...
TIA
Peter
jp-speed-triple said:
hi Peter, you running scca, csr?
JP
Hi JP,JP
No, I'm not running SCCA just looking to run some regional races in Western Canada/USA. Currently there are no Radicals running out here but that will be changing soon as a friend of mine just ordered a 1500cc SR3 for 2010. There are a few other Sports Racers around; some older S2000's and a couple DSR Stohrs. Like I mentioned, my interest in the Radicals are down to the PR6 and SR3s and since they are both being run competitvely in the UK, I am hoping to get some first hand impression of how these two cars in the configurations I asked about in my original post compare...
I have a 1585cc PR6 currently, which has run in the UK and Club cup. This car slaughters the new SR3RS as well as the old 1500cc SR3. Check out the lap times on www.tsl-timing.com, Club result, then BARC.
Combe Club Cup 2009
FASTEST LAP
23 T Radical SR3 10 1:04.192 103.75 mph 166.97 kph
16 S Radical PR6 3 1:04.274 103.61 mph 166.75 kph
55 B Radical SR4 6 1:09.678 95.58 mph 153.82 kph
26 C Radical Clubsport 5 1:10.350 94.66 mph 152.35 kph
Combe UK cup 2009
FASTEST LAP
1 M Radical SR8 39 1:02.482 106.59 mph 171.54 kph
7 I Radical PR6 9 1:04.746 102.86 mph 165.54 kph
45 S SR3 7 1:04.861 102.68 mph 165.24 kph
28 P Radical PR6 33 1:08.734 96.89 mph 155.93 kph
Shame the Club Cup SR3 driver doesn't know how to get off the line without stalling though
Simon
FASTEST LAP
23 T Radical SR3 10 1:04.192 103.75 mph 166.97 kph
16 S Radical PR6 3 1:04.274 103.61 mph 166.75 kph
55 B Radical SR4 6 1:09.678 95.58 mph 153.82 kph
26 C Radical Clubsport 5 1:10.350 94.66 mph 152.35 kph
Combe UK cup 2009
FASTEST LAP
1 M Radical SR8 39 1:02.482 106.59 mph 171.54 kph
7 I Radical PR6 9 1:04.746 102.86 mph 165.54 kph
45 S SR3 7 1:04.861 102.68 mph 165.24 kph
28 P Radical PR6 33 1:08.734 96.89 mph 155.93 kph
Shame the Club Cup SR3 driver doesn't know how to get off the line without stalling though
Simon
Simon you do spend pretty much the whole year at Castle Combe, so could be considered somewhat of a circuit specialist!
By way of fairness & balance, there was a PR6 with only a tuned 1298cc motor (Simons SR3 has a 1585cc motor) & driven a first timer at Castle Combe, who managed to put it on pole position with a 1.03.85.
General sensible opinion is that if you fit the same engine in both SR3 & PR6 with the same driver, the PR6 is going to be quicker (by a fair margin too I would say)
By way of fairness & balance, there was a PR6 with only a tuned 1298cc motor (Simons SR3 has a 1585cc motor) & driven a first timer at Castle Combe, who managed to put it on pole position with a 1.03.85.
General sensible opinion is that if you fit the same engine in both SR3 & PR6 with the same driver, the PR6 is going to be quicker (by a fair margin too I would say)
As your from Canada if you log on to this web site that is based your side of the pond www.socalpeeps.yuku.com lots of info re Radical and Stohr cars.
PR6 all the way there great.....
PR6 all the way there great.....
Perhaps a danger of this becoming something that doesn't actually answer what the OP was asking?
Seems to me that ignoring the difficult ingredient of which fast and talented pilot is in what, as the PR6 carries appreciably less weight than an SR3, that with the same engine, it'll generally be capable of going appreciably quicker most of the time and at most tracks; laws of nature / motorsport to my simpleton mind and I think the results pretty well generally confirm that as an open and shut case, particularly in something like last year's Club Championship, when the same faces were regularly competing against one another at different venues. Indeed, I think the new Regs for the Quaife (i.e. those that wish to compete for the overall Championship) in many ways reflect / respond to exactly that inherent advantage that the PR6 enjoys i.e. 1340 max in a PR6 / 1475 max in an SR3.
My view is that if someone (under 6'3"-ish) is only interested in winning races AND the Regs allow them to put exactly the same engine in as the SR3s, then the answer is very easy; run a PR6, be that circuit, sprint or hillclimb - particularly with the latter two, I think the PR6's smaller dimensions and central driving position are all of worthwhile benefit, as is it's appreciably lesser purchase price.
If there are objectives / uses beyond that, such as trackdays i.e. occasionally taking out sponsors, friends, getting shoulder to shoulder tuition, probably endurance (such as more room to move about in, no chain stretch to worry about) etc, then these are all things that an SR3 has superiority in, sometimes on a 'can do' compared to a 'no can do' basis. With total and complete irrelevance to an out and out racer, I also personally factor in that that the latest SR3 is also a totally gorgeous looking piece of kit.
Which brings us back to the 2010 Quaife Championship Counting Classes > 1340K8 PR6 vs 1475K8 SR3 with about 15% more RWHP? That may well prove to be a pretty close call (I hear that at least one 2009 Stroker PR6er is moving across to the 2010 SR3 RS), which is why I am so looking forward to this season's Radical Quaife Championship!
Not Long Now ..............
Seems to me that ignoring the difficult ingredient of which fast and talented pilot is in what, as the PR6 carries appreciably less weight than an SR3, that with the same engine, it'll generally be capable of going appreciably quicker most of the time and at most tracks; laws of nature / motorsport to my simpleton mind and I think the results pretty well generally confirm that as an open and shut case, particularly in something like last year's Club Championship, when the same faces were regularly competing against one another at different venues. Indeed, I think the new Regs for the Quaife (i.e. those that wish to compete for the overall Championship) in many ways reflect / respond to exactly that inherent advantage that the PR6 enjoys i.e. 1340 max in a PR6 / 1475 max in an SR3.
My view is that if someone (under 6'3"-ish) is only interested in winning races AND the Regs allow them to put exactly the same engine in as the SR3s, then the answer is very easy; run a PR6, be that circuit, sprint or hillclimb - particularly with the latter two, I think the PR6's smaller dimensions and central driving position are all of worthwhile benefit, as is it's appreciably lesser purchase price.
If there are objectives / uses beyond that, such as trackdays i.e. occasionally taking out sponsors, friends, getting shoulder to shoulder tuition, probably endurance (such as more room to move about in, no chain stretch to worry about) etc, then these are all things that an SR3 has superiority in, sometimes on a 'can do' compared to a 'no can do' basis. With total and complete irrelevance to an out and out racer, I also personally factor in that that the latest SR3 is also a totally gorgeous looking piece of kit.
Which brings us back to the 2010 Quaife Championship Counting Classes > 1340K8 PR6 vs 1475K8 SR3 with about 15% more RWHP? That may well prove to be a pretty close call (I hear that at least one 2009 Stroker PR6er is moving across to the 2010 SR3 RS), which is why I am so looking forward to this season's Radical Quaife Championship!
Not Long Now ..............
very good points all....I would also be interested in getting some perspective as to what the differences in driving styles are between these two cars from people who have raced both...Just based on the overall dimensions, it would appear to me that the PR6 would be more of a handfull than the SR3 to get the most out of ??
Doubt it....
Now saying that I have only driven PR6, but personally speaking & coming from a Caterham before, I think the car is very well balanced & pretty easy to drive hard more or less straight away. Never before in my experience has 100mph+ oversteer been more control-able!
When set up well it doesn't seem to do anything unexpected when pushed hard or over the limit, responds well to an aggressive driving style & seems to enjoy being grabbed by the scruff of the neck & flung around the track whilst still posting good times, but to the obvious detriment of tyre life......
Now saying that I have only driven PR6, but personally speaking & coming from a Caterham before, I think the car is very well balanced & pretty easy to drive hard more or less straight away. Never before in my experience has 100mph+ oversteer been more control-able!
When set up well it doesn't seem to do anything unexpected when pushed hard or over the limit, responds well to an aggressive driving style & seems to enjoy being grabbed by the scruff of the neck & flung around the track whilst still posting good times, but to the obvious detriment of tyre life......
dsl2 said:
....
responds well to an aggressive driving style & seems to enjoy being grabbed by the scruff of the neck & flung around the track whilst still posting good times, but to the obvious detriment of tyre life......
that is what I meant by a handfull which don't get me wrong, is wht I like about it responds well to an aggressive driving style & seems to enjoy being grabbed by the scruff of the neck & flung around the track whilst still posting good times, but to the obvious detriment of tyre life......
Based on the vidoes I've seen, the SR3 seems more docile when compared to the PR6...hi vintage 911 i have owned a clubsport, an sr3 and a 1500 pro 6. The sr3 is very easy to drive, very forgiving and wide and stable. You can absolutely chuck it into a corner with total abandon and the more you ask the more it will give but. driver up it weighs about 630 kilos and the pr6 is 100kg less.
and thats the long and the short of it. the pr6 has a shorter narrower wheel base and is significantly lighter. you also sit in the middle of a pr6. so the pr6 is more like a race car, bit more nervy a bit more edgy almost like a real racing car. at the end of the day physics will out. a 100kg lighter pr6 is faster than the equivalent sr3. the wider longer wheel base of the sr3 is easier to drive and more forgiving. so if you have the skill and nerve buy a pr6 if you want safe and secure buy an sr3
hope this helps
and thats the long and the short of it. the pr6 has a shorter narrower wheel base and is significantly lighter. you also sit in the middle of a pr6. so the pr6 is more like a race car, bit more nervy a bit more edgy almost like a real racing car. at the end of the day physics will out. a 100kg lighter pr6 is faster than the equivalent sr3. the wider longer wheel base of the sr3 is easier to drive and more forgiving. so if you have the skill and nerve buy a pr6 if you want safe and secure buy an sr3
hope this helps
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